Author Topic: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more  (Read 1791 times)

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Offline massadvj

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Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« on: November 11, 2016, 02:36:56 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
Robert Reich

What has happened in America should not be seen as a victory for hatefulness over decency. It is more accurately understood as a repudiation of the American power structure.

At the core of that structure are the political leaders of both parties, their political operatives, and fundraisers; the major media, centered in New York and Washington DC; the country’s biggest corporations, their top executives, and Washington lobbyists and trade associations; the biggest Wall Street banks, their top officers, traders, hedge-fund and private-equity managers, and their lackeys in Washington; and the wealthy individuals who invest directly in politics.

At the start of the 2016 election cycle, this power structure proclaimed Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush shoo-ins for the nominations of the Democratic and Republican parties. After all, both of these individuals had deep bases of funders, well-established networks of political insiders, experienced political advisers and all the political name recognition any candidate could possibly want.

But a funny thing happened...

(more at link)

Offline massadvj

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 02:37:39 pm »
Hell froze over and I agree with Reich.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 03:28:45 pm »
I have to laugh because if I am not mistaken, Bob might have a hand in this happening to his party.


"Da Plane Da Plane"

Offline r9etb

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 03:58:06 pm »
Hell froze over and I agree with Reich.

As, for the most part, do I.  Here's the money quotes:

Quote
What has happened in America should not be seen as a victory for hatefulness over decency. It is more accurately understood as a repudiation of the American power structure.

At the core of that structure are the political leaders of both parties, their political operatives, and fundraisers; the major media, centered in New York and Washington DC; the country’s biggest corporations, their top executives, and Washington lobbyists and trade associations; the biggest Wall Street banks, their top officers, traders, hedge-fund and private-equity managers, and their lackeys in Washington; and the wealthy individuals who invest directly in politics.
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.
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The Democratic party once represented the working class. But over the last three decades the party has been taken over by Washington-based fundraisers, bundlers, analysts, and pollsters who have focused instead on raising campaign money from corporate and Wall Street executives and getting votes from upper middle-class households in “swing” suburbs.

While it is true of both parties, it is in fact the Democrats who mainly control these things, and Hillary Clinton was their symbol.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 03:59:14 pm by r9etb »

Offline massadvj

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 09:06:00 pm »
While it is true of both parties, it is in fact the Democrats who mainly control these things, and Hillary Clinton was their symbol.

It is now.  But under GWB there was a very cozy relationship between K street and the GOP.  I hope to hell the lesson of those days has been learned.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 09:10:56 pm »
It is now.  But under GWB there was a very cozy relationship between K street and the GOP.  I hope to hell the lesson of those days has been learned.

There's a cozy relationship between K Street (and its equivalents) and whatever party is in power: that's what happens when power becomes as centralized as it has.  Unfortunately, I don't think Trump is any more opposed to working within cozy relationships than Clinton.  As a high-stakes businessman, cozy relationships go with the territory.

Offline montanajoe

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 09:41:09 pm »
What has happened is that there is no longer a Conservative major party in the good old USA. The Dims own being liberals, the GOP will claim for a few more years they are conservative while adopting ever more liberal policies to appease the rubes that voted for Trump. The GOP today is very much where the Dims were on the political spectrum in 1980....

The GOP cannot keep Trump voters without moving farther to the left :shrug:
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 09:45:46 pm by montanajoe »

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 09:50:53 pm »
Trump was always so good to his workers.  Especially those illegals who worked on his golf courses and on his construction sites.  The ones he got fined for using.
And then there are those hapless Atlantic City workers who got NO pay at all.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2016, 10:04:22 pm »
What has happened is that there is no longer a Conservative major party in the good old USA. The Dims own being liberals, the GOP will claim for a few more years they are conservative while adopting ever more liberal policies to appease the rubes that voted for Trump. The GOP today is very much where the Dims were on the political spectrum in 1980....

The GOP cannot keep Trump voters without moving farther to the left :shrug:

Interesting comment.  Thing is, I don't see "Trump voters" in the same light.

I think that for the most part, the so-called "Trump Voters" are normal, rational, honest people who were registering their opposition to the political status quo in the only way left to them.  The only way to oppose the amorphous blob of the political machine, was to vote for the guy who's truly not a part of it.  His qualifications and fitness for the job were secondary considerations -- especially since the alternative was no more qualified or fit, and was corrupt to boot.

All the GOP really needs to do, is to recognize the existence of normal people.  The Democrats no longer do that; and the GOP has done so less and less since the days of Reagan.  Both parties are part of the amorphous blob.

A party can get a lot of traction simply by recognizing, acknowledging, and addressing the concerns of normal people.  The "Reagan Democrat" phenomenon was just that sort of thing.

It may well be that such a party is not as conservative as we'd like it to be; but it would be better than the current GOP, and who's to say that we couldn't package conservative ideas in a way that actually appeal to people?

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2016, 10:18:14 pm »
Interesting comment.  Thing is, I don't see "Trump voters" in the same light.

I think that for the most part, the so-called "Trump Voters" are normal, rational, honest people who were registering their opposition to the political status quo in the only way left to them.  The only way to oppose the amorphous blob of the political machine, was to vote for the guy who's truly not a part of it.  His qualifications and fitness for the job were secondary considerations -- especially since the alternative was no more qualified or fit, and was corrupt to boot.

All the GOP really needs to do, is to recognize the existence of normal people.  The Democrats no longer do that; and the GOP has done so less and less since the days of Reagan.  Both parties are part of the amorphous blob.

A party can get a lot of traction simply by recognizing, acknowledging, and addressing the concerns of normal people.  The "Reagan Democrat" phenomenon was just that sort of thing.

It may well be that such a party is not as conservative as we'd like it to be; but it would be better than the current GOP, and who's to say that we couldn't package conservative ideas in a way that actually appeal to people?

A lot of those "Trump Voters" voted for Obama twice.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2016, 10:27:03 pm »
I don't remember democrats representing the working class in any meaningful sense.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 10:35:24 pm »
A lot of those "Trump Voters" voted for Obama twice.

And?  If they voted for Trump this time, they must be feeling like liberals who have been mugged.

It's poor policy to reject people out of hand. 

Offline r9etb

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 10:45:28 pm »
I don't remember democrats representing the working class in any meaningful sense.

They did, though ... and more to the point, they created the impression that they were the party of the common man. 

Democrat support for and from unions has its roots in the early days of the labor movement, at a time when unions actually did some good.  The GOP was seen -- properly, for the most part -- as having opposed it.  People in the 60s and 70s had grandparents and parents who lived through that time. 

As another example, I don't think many of us on this board have any idea of what true, grinding poverty looks like -- before, during, and after the Depression.  But we know people who did.  The Democrats attempted to address it, and the GOP opposed it.  People now alive know, or even lived through, that period.

Of course the Democrats also screwed things up, badly ... but we're talking about impressions here, and perceptions tend to lag well behind the long-term consequences.

Reich's point, even if he doesn't realize it, is that today's Democrats look an awful lot like the GOP of old -- playing to the wants and needs of their rich pals, and scorning the lower-class "rubes" who haven't the benefits of their Yale women's studies degrees, or high-class sensibilities.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:46:19 pm by r9etb »

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 10:54:50 pm »
I vividly recall having this conversation with @sinkspur ....when I said that Trump provided an opportunity to 'steal' millions of blue collar families from the democrats.

And KEEP THEM!   

They said they wanted a bigger tent.   Trump attracted them.  They're HERE!   (Look outside the window)

Let's KEEP them.

There's a TRILLION $$$ about to be let loose in the markets.   That money's coming home, baby!

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geronl

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2016, 01:44:33 am »
We have the National Fascist German Workers Party in America now

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2016, 01:47:11 am »
We have the National Fascist German Workers Party in America now

Yes we do.   Lord help us.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2016, 02:18:02 am »
Hell froze over and I agree with Reich.
Him and Michael Moore.   And the Cubs won the World Series.