Last Day Before Election: Most Major Polls Have Hillary Clinton Winning

[HonestJohn]

A key point I think many miss.

A voter has absolutely no obligation to be loyal to a political party any more than a customer is obligated to be loyal to any single business. A voter does not owe a political party a thing. Their loyalty is to their own values.

A poitical party, however, must be loyal to the voters, just like a business has to be loyal to its customers. If a business is not loyal to its customers (driving them away, offering a substandard product, not offering the product they want) the customers will leave.

I think many get that backwards.

One of the long lasting effects of this election will be that more Republicans will be willing to vote outside the party in future elections.  For this election has broken the unthinking habit of party-line voting.

And once a voter does so for the first time, it gets easier each and every subsequent time.

[DiogenesLamp]

Yes, as I commented at the time. They helped him by holding their fire until the general election, as predicted.

They didn't just hold their fire on Trump until he won the nomination,   they helped Trump direct fire at Cruz.   They gleefully repeated every accusation Trump made against Cruz,  and they  helped spread  the meme that Cruz was a liar.   


The media heavily steered the primary this year,   and too many of our people were too stupid to get out when it was clear they didn't have a chance of winning.     

[roamer_1]

If you are helping Hillary,  you are serving Liberalism.   If you are not trying to defeat her,  you are serving Liberalism. 

Trump is a liberal too - One a communist, one a national socialist. Like I say, a distinction without a difference.

Helping either one is helping liberalism.
Hence my personal edorsement of Castle, who is an ACTUAL CONSERVATIVE. A Conservative endorsing Conservatism. Will wonders never cease?

Self fulfilling prophecies does not make one prophetic.   Putting your thumb on Hillary's side of the scale does not advance conservatism,  indeed it is likely the death of it.

I make no claim toward prophecy. Just toward being clear-sighted.

Putting your thumb on Trump's side of the scale does precisely the same thing.
It's the same old argument between the puke sandwich and the turd burger.
I ain't eating either one.
There's a nice deli around the corner that is not only Conservative, but kosher.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think it is more accurately described as a desperate plea for attention.   "Look at me!   I'm Moral and Upright,  not like that publican over there! "

After watching your act on this thread, I'd think you'd be a bit wary of casting stones like that, Sir.

[DiogenesLamp]

You really have a fixation on state control over the media.

I have a fixation on the party of the state controlling the media.   Yes I do,  because that is the number one threat to the nation that I currently see.   


The media is controlled by the party of the State.   We need to fix this,  but it may be too late now. 


 

[HonestJohn]

National Socialists in power offend me.   Between the two of us,  i'm not the one helping them gain power.

Uh... yes you are.

David Duke, the Klan, the Daily Stormer, etc, etc, etc... are all on *your* side.

[HonestJohn]

Maybe.  It all depends if they would have been willing to equate that to electing Hillary.  I think probably not -- you'd have had the Norm Lenhart types ranting about insufficient purity on issues, and therefore no better than Hillary, but I think they'd have been pretty few and far between given Hillary as the alternative.   

Again...does that really hurt him?  Here you have a 45 year old guy who apparently danced in some review when he was a kid.  He'd probably play it off as a joke or something, but even so...what about the millennials?  I tend to think these kind of attacks might have actually backfired on the left.  Maybe you'd have some Church Lady types refusing to vote for him based on that, but again...I think they'd come around anyway.

Other than the getting stuck with Christie, he seemed pretty good on his feet to me.

If the left attacked Rubio for this, it'd destroy their support with the gay community.  And that betrayal would have ramifications within the larger Democrat base.

It was only an issue that could be used by Republicans against Republicans.

[DiogenesLamp]

What you fail to understand is that there are mutually understood boundaries of acceptability in our political system.

Romney fell in that spectrum of acceptability.

Trump does not.

The rest of the party did not agree with you.   Obviously they must be wrong,  and you must be right.


It does make me ask,  if Trump is so bad,  how can Hillary be the preferred alternative?   


Ah,  to teach everyone that did not hark unto your words a "lesson."   


"Jonah",  thought I.

[Norm Lenhart]

Uh... yes you are.

David Duke, the Klan, the Daily Stormer, etc, etc, etc... are all on *your* side.

And all the Jimmy Swaggart style 'evangelicals who wear God like a badge on their sleeve. And the Alt Right consisting of anti-Semitics militant atheists and militant homosexuals.  Among others. It's a who's who of list of 'the opposite of conservatives'.

But yet 'we' are on the wrong side.

[HonestJohn]

It taught the GOP primary base that a milquetoast nice guy will get his @$$ handed to him,   so therefore we need to get a "balls to the wall"  street fighter to carry the fight to them. 


McCain was "nice."  He lost.   Romney was "nice."   He Lost.    George Herbert Walker Bush was "nice."  He lost.   


Lesson learned:    Don't pick "nice"  guys,   pick people who have teeth.

Eisenhower was nice.  Reagan, too.  The two Bushes as well.

The only GOP President that wasn't nice was Nixon.

[DiogenesLamp]

Of course, the only one bringing this up is a Trump supporter.

No,  i'm bringing it up.   I am a Cruz supporter who now has no other rational choice but Trump.   

You know,   a grown up. 

[Norm Lenhart]

No,  i'm bringing it up.   I am a Cruz supporter who now has no other rational choice but Trump.   

You know,   a grown up.

Voting for a liberal is the polar opposite of 'rational' for a conservative.

Edit: Lets not forget that you are trying to elect a guy that trashed Cruz, his wife and father using the National Enquirer to do it.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Edit

Eh, nevermind.  Not worth it.

[skeeter]

They didn't just hold their fire on Trump until he won the nomination,   they helped Trump direct fire at Cruz.   They gleefully repeated every accusation Trump made against Cruz,  and they  helped spread  the meme that Cruz was a liar.   


The media heavily steered the primary this year,   and too many of our people were too stupid to get out when it was clear they didn't have a chance of winning.   

No argument from me.

[HonestJohn]

Only because of the Hispanic angle.   "Young Person of Color"  beats "Hateful old White Psycho Crone."   


But the media would have ran interference and tripped him up.   They weren't afraid of Rubio for his brains,   they were afraid of him for his ethnicity.

And the home state advantage of Florida had nothing to do with the calculus.

 

[roamer_1]

This country was not founded on the principles of lesser evil and situational ethics. Yet that is exactly what one has to adopt to put party over country. To put winning no matter what over winning to advance the core beliefs we hold.

Absolutely correct. I hope people slow down to read your words.

I want any of these people to explain why they believe that after election after election going further and further left (and losing each of them since the great push for lesser evil began, that they are on the right path and we are on the wrong one. This will make three presidential elections running they have lost to easily beatable candidates.

More than that - Democrats can ALWAYS bet on their candidates moving their 'principles' forward. They always DO. They serve their base with distinction.

Yet Republicans merely give lip service to our principles. When's the last time we didn't have to choke down vomit to vote? Well that was rhetorical, because actual Conservatives won't 'hold their nose'... but that is what is expected, every time.

Lets face it. The above is a matter of historical record and every year they prop up someone forther to the left than the guy before. McCain - Romney - Trump. They went from Stereotype RINO to the father of gay marriage to "Grab her by the bleep".

Can't someone please just stand up and tell us which bathroom to use?

We have said all along that we need to return to Reagan conservatism. Their last TWO candidates hated Reagan. McCain I'm not sure about but he sure didn't share his beliefs. This is why I believe that these people must be left to their own devices. They are nothing but impediments to conservatism. They can either learn the hard way on their own, or not learn at all. Either way they are useless to conservatism and to America.

That is unassailable.

[ABX]

One of the long lasting effects of this election will be that more Republicans will be willing to vote outside the party in future elections.  For this election has broken the unthinking habit of party-line voting.

And once a voter does so for the first time, it gets easier each and every subsequent time.

I saw a stat last night (I'll find it again) that somewhere around 80% of voters only vote for a party out of habit but actually feel politically homeless in terms of what they believe. They don't feel the current political parties represent them.

The political parties, and a cheering subset of loyal 'customers' to those parties, take that for granted and feel people must be loyal to them. They actually attack customers for choosing a different business instead of asking how they can be more attractive to those customers.

[HonestJohn]

No, you arent alone. And that is exactly what upsets the Trumpians so deeply. They can spout all the crap they like about how meaningless we are but it rings hollow considering how often they are obliged to say it.

And of course the dawning horror for them that they DID need us. But as conservatives, we do NOT need or WANT them. We are as you said, right where we have always been. Standing on our principles. If that means we lose, so be it. Winning with a liberal is no victory I am interested in.

They can either come to our way of thinking, or not. But here we will be.

BLAMELESS.

This, and come Wednesday morning... the fact that they will have to look at themselves in the mirror.

I doubt they will see a face they can respect.

[DiogenesLamp]

Trump is a liberal too - One a communist, one a national socialist. Like I say, a distinction without a difference.

All this tells me is that you are incredibly ignorant (for someone on a political forum)   about the nature of the beast you are supporting.       


Also you are ignorant about the political nature of Trump.   He's  a relatively non ideological New Yorker.  He doesn't really have an ideology. 


Hillary has not just an ideology,   but a pathology. 


And it's all bad.   

[DiogenesLamp]

After watching your act on this thread, I'd think you'd be a bit wary of casting stones like that, Sir.

I actually enjoy arguing,  and most especially with people who disagree with me.   


I think it's a genetic thing or something.   

[HonestJohn]

The rest of the party did not agree with you.   Obviously they must be wrong,  and you must be right.

Point?

We are going to lose because 11 million GOP primary voter couldn't figure this out.  So yes, they are doing something wrong.

[DiogenesLamp]

Uh... yes you are.

David Duke, the Klan, the Daily Stormer, etc, etc, etc... are all on *your* side.

Given that Trump has all Jewish Grandchildren,  I would guess the joke is on them.    So do you normally go around accusing people of siding with racists?     

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The media heavily steered the primary this year,   and too many of our people were too stupid to get out when it was clear they didn't have a chance of winning.   

Amen.  It was clear after the early primaries that the only ones with a shot to win the nomination were Trump, Cruz, and Rubio.  The real saboteurs were Jeb and Kasich, both of whom did everything they could to sink the two Trump alternatives.  As soon as Rubio left, I went to Cruz.  That jackhole Kasich hung in there right to the end, though....

[Norm Lenhart]

This, and come Wednesday morning... the fact that they will have to look at themselves in the mirror.

I doubt they will see a face they can respect.

Some perhaps. For their own sake, they should consider that.  I think that most were too far gone to care long before Trump came on the scene. What kind of respect can one have for themselves or anyone else when they champoin a guy that sees no issue sexually assaulting women? Who screws his business associates for profit? Who changes core positions on a dime?

A person feeling that acceptable is not going to care about their reflection. They see it as they want to see it.

[HonestJohn]

No,  i'm bringing it up.   I am a Cruz supporter who now has no other rational choice but Trump.   

You know,   a grown up.

No, you're not.

You've been one of the most vocal TRUMP supporters here.