Author Topic: What Trump has already cost America: And how much steeper the price will grow if he wins  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/tom-nichols-trump-cost-america-article-1.2858701?cid=bitly

What Trump has already cost America: And how much steeper the price will grow if he wins
 

BY
TOM NICHOLS
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Saturday, November 5, 2016, 11:36 AM

At this point, the brief against Donald Trump becoming President of the United States has been well rehearsed. There is no point in rehashing Trump's positions or policies: He doesn't have any.

And so rather than make the case that Trump would be a bad President (something accepted even by many of those nominally supporting him), we should look at the damage Trump has already done to our nation even by running. We need no clearer warning of a Trump presidency than to look at what he has already inflicted on us as a country and as a people.

Let's start with foreign policy, something most voters don't usually care about very much. Insofar as Trump has a foreign policy, it is based on an almost complete and fawning adoption of Russian President Vladimir Putin's anti-American view of the world.

Trump claims that Hillary Clinton would start World War III, but it is Trump who has already shaken and endangered our friends and allies with his reckless and stupid rhetoric.

This fall, I had the chance to talk with ordinary citizens, students, journalists, and others in cities and towns in Central Europe. Almost all of them expressed the same fear: that America was going to elect Donald Trump and abandon them — our NATO allies — to the same fate Russia has inflicted on Ukraine, Georgia, and especially Syria.

They found it incomprehensible that the United States of America could even think of electing a man so obviously enamored of Putin, whom they fear for good reason. They were mystified at the rise of right-wing nationalism, a problem they assumed was localized to Europe but to which America, at least at the level of presidential politics, seemed immune.

Worst of all, they were disappointed and scared. These are people who once lived behind the Iron Curtain. They hoped in us, believed in us, and admired our system of government. It's partly why they bound their fate to ours. Even if Trump loses, they will never look at us the same way, because they know what we're capable of tolerating in a presidential candidate.

At home, the Trump campaign has scarred us in ways that no future President will be able to heal soon. Trump's entire campaign was based on exploiting divisions in American society, flooding our public debate with fantasies and statistical fakery, from the myth of a rising crime rate to the promise of a wall that will never be built.

Underlying it all was a crass appeal not only to race, but to religious, ethnic, regional, and class prejudices. He has tried to inflame every one of the basic differences in American society that our system of federalism and our charter of universal liberties has overcome since the Civil War to bind us as a republic.

Through all of this, I was determined not to vote for Hillary Clinton. I am a Republican, but I could not mark a ballot for a family I have been hoping for over two decades would leave our political life. That all changed, however, when Trump turned from trying to exploit our differences as a nation and directly attacked our system of government itself.

Back in 1999, Trump considered running for president and said that he would choose Oprah to be his running mate. The headline on Oct. 8, 1999 read, "I want to be the Prez."

When it became clear to Trump that he was likely to lose, he decided to lash out and see how many of our constitutional traditions he could take down with him. He made wild claims of electoral "rigging," trucking in conspiracy theories usually relegated to the darkest (and stupidest) corners of the internet. Heedless of the consequences, his bloated self-esteem demanded the destruction of the American electoral system if it would not produce the results he wanted.

Trump might well be too ignorant to understand the danger he was courting, since he seems unable to understand anything that is not directly and immediately about himself. But the various hangers-on around Trump knew exactly what they were doing. People who had once sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution gleefully abetted attacks on our most sacred traditions so scurrilous that even Moscow's propagandists were left in the dust trying to keep up.

Barack Obama talks the election with Bill Maher
Trump's deep corrosion of our national identity, both at home and abroad, has been immediate and it will be lasting. Trump has ground away at what was once the basic decency of American voters, trying to erode their faith in their own institutions rather than risk any affront to his spun-glass ego.

While I was overseas, I had to explain over and over that elections in the United States are administered locally, and that most Americans did not really have the stomach for accusing their own friends and neighbors of fraud.

I said that because I believe it, but also because I need to believe it.

Trump's boosters tell voters not to worry, that a new and more responsible Trump would emerge from the Oval Office, that his staff and other Republicans can moderate his behavior. This is a lie. There is no better Trump. A man willing to set over two centuries of constitutional tradition ablaze is not going to find sudden depth and new respect for our system once he is sitting at its pinnacle.

More at link
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Discourse has suffered, respect for each other has crumbled, and what is now acceptable in public has reached a new low.

All because of Trump.  He's a disgusting human being with no morals and no filters. 

Voters will step back from the brink and reject this garbage fire on Tuesday.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Sam SteinVerified account
‏@samsteinhp
“What a group of losers we have” — Trump on the military and civilian commanders who have handled the Mosul campaign.

Concluding that Donald Trump should not be the leader of the free world ought to be one of the easiest decisions you ever make in your life.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Trump is now making brand new tax policy:

Kevin CirilliVerified account
‏@kevcirilli
WILMINGTON, N.C. --

Trump: "If  a company wants to fire their worker... we will make them pay a tax of 35 percent."
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

HonestJohn

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Trump is now making brand new tax policy:

Kevin CirilliVerified account
‏@kevcirilli
WILMINGTON, N.C. --

Trump: "If  a company wants to fire their worker... we will make them pay a tax of 35 percent."

The guy is insane.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 08:43:16 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline DagnyT

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Trump is now making brand new tax policy:

Kevin CirilliVerified account
‏@kevcirilli
WILMINGTON, N.C. --

Trump: "If  a company wants to fire their worker... we will make them pay a tax of 35 percent."

corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.
#MAGA

Offline INVAR

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Quote from: sinkspur link=topic=233016.msg1124965#msg1124965 date=1478367724

[b
What Trump has already cost America: And how much steeper the price will grow if he wins[/b]


Does no one bother to ask what Obama, the Democrats, the GOP Establishment under McConnell and Boehner have already cost  America?

Trump and Hillary simply continue the same policies at accelerated rates from different viewpoints.

Both Trump and Hillary pledged to run companies out of business - force them to do as they say, operate where they say and maintain the workers they say they have to maintain.

There is not a shred of difference in the tyranny either of these two clowns will continue.  Trump's may be more punitive and violent given his rabid militants.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Oceander

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.

:facepalm2:

 You do realize, don't you, that this is exactly what Clinton plans on doing.  Simply demonstrates that there is no difference between Trump and Clinton; they're simply both tax-and-spend NYC liberals.

EDITED BY MOD1: No namecalling.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 12:11:12 am by Mod1 »

Offline sinkspur

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.

So companies can't fire anybody now?  Bernie Sanders would love you for that.

You obviously never took economics, or you would know that the primary purpose of a business is to provide maximum profit to their shareholders. And "extra stock pennies" are what they are in business for.

Trump is a Democrat socialist in his views on business and trade indistinguishable from Sanders and Clinton.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline INVAR

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it.

So Fascism and Socialism are fine in your book so long as it is YOUR Dear Leader doing it instead of the Mao Pantsuit????

Since when are they YOUR jobs?  Did you start those companies?  Did you invest in the start up?  Did you invest in the R&D and the production to get those companies off the ground? Is it your money and effort that keeps the company in the black?  Since when did private companies OWE you your job?

if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.

That ought to spur the business climate in this economy… threaten to PUNISH companies for firing their employees.  Not even Sander or Hillary have advocated that in such language yet.

But a Trumpian Fascist is not shy about it at all.

It is a tried and true illustration of every single Collectivist Statist - that they never discuss the size and reach of the Government behemoth, the strangling regulations, the costly minimums and Union extortion, the infertile and unwelcome toxic soil that this government has tilled for businesses in the global marketplace - rather they always cheer and applaud the one who will bring the hammer of Statism down on private property and industry even further.

Every time I read this crap from the Trump mobs - I am more convinced that Trump is indeed the greater danger to liberty in this country.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

HonestJohn

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So Fascism and Socialism are fine in your book so long as it is YOUR Dear Leader doing it instead of the Mao Pantsuit????

Since when are they YOUR jobs?  Did you start those companies?  Did you invest in the start up?  Did you invest in the R&D and the production to get those companies off the ground? Is it your money and effort that keeps the company in the black?  Since when did private companies OWE you your job?

That ought to spur the business climate in this economy… threaten to PUNISH companies for firing their employees.  Not even Sander or Hillary have advocated that in such language yet.

But a Trumpian Fascist is not shy about it at all.

It is a tried and true illustration of every single Collectivist Statist - that they never discuss the size and reach of the Government behemoth, the strangling regulations, the costly minimums and Union extortion, the infertile and unwelcome toxic soil that this government has tilled for businesses in the global marketplace - rather they always cheer and applaud the one who will bring the hammer of Statism down on private property and industry even further.

Every time I read this crap from the Trump mobs - I am more convinced that Trump is indeed the greater danger to liberty in this country.

His avid supporters are Democrats... who just want the 'benefits' Democrats promise restricted to just the white right people.

This is exactly the same thing we saw in the late 1960s, when all the southern 'white supremacists' fled the Democrat party for the GOP.  Now they are glomming onto the Trumpenwagen.

Offline sinkspur

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"The Hispanics, they love me."
 
Sam SteinVerified account
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Trump intro speaker attacks election officials for keeping polls open in Nevada so “a certain group” could vote

“you feel free right now?"
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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stuart stevens ‏@stuartpstevens  28m28 minutes ago
Telling that a 70 year old man runs against a 69 year old woman & it's the man who ends up looking like a freak trying to hide his age.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline LMAO

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if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them.

@DagnyT
Years ago, I read were Spain did something somewhat similar to what you're suggesting.

Their unemployment rate shot right up.

Despite his rhetoric, Trump won't do much of anything different regarding trade or outsourcing as he doesn't want the economic effects happening on his watch

Trump's progressive economic and fiscal positions, like all progressive ideas in general,sound great on the campaign trail but fail in the real world
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 03:24:08 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline LMAO

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Be it Clinton or Trump, we will, best case scenario, see a continuation of a sluggish economy.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Trump is now making brand new tax policy:

Kevin CirilliVerified account
‏@kevcirilli
WILMINGTON, N.C. --

Trump: "If  a company wants to fire their worker... we will make them pay a tax of 35 percent."


Wow, did he really say that?

Offline roamer_1

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.

@DagnyT Have at it. Do you know what that means? That means I'd fire them all before the bill passes, and won't be hiring the hell out of them any time after that... Employees are already not worth the trouble, and certainly not worth the risk. Do this and small business will implode.

Socialist entitled bullcrap.

I never thought I would hear such a thing on a Conservative site. Hopefully folks will give you a stern talking to.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.


They've tried to do that in Europe, problem is that nobody wants to hire since it's such a burden to fire.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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The source of this statement is a tweet. I cannot find the original text. Trump has mentioned a 35% tariff so I will assume he's talking about that?


That's at least slightly less insane than taxing companies who fire workers.

Offline GrouchoTex

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corps are sending our jobs to overseas or giving them to low priced foreigners. bout damn time someone does somethign about it. if they fire someone, tax the hell out of them. especially big companies that are just trying to get some extra stock pennies.

Sounds like a pretty liberal position to take.
What would be the incentive to hire more workers, when needed?
The economy will ebb and flow, and not always the fault of the employers.
Sometimes, it is through bad policy, like Obamacare, and, frankly, this one.