Author Topic: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson  (Read 6495 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 384,063
  • Let's Go Brandon!
The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« on: October 17, 2016, 12:41:28 pm »
 The Case for Trump
Conservatives should vote for the Republican nominee.
By Victor Davis Hanson — October 17, 2016
 

Donald Trump needs a unified Republican party in the homestretch if he is to have any chance left of catching Hillary Clinton — along with winning higher percentages of the college-educated and women than currently support him. But even before the latest revelations from an eleven-year-old Access Hollywood tape, in which Trump crudely talked about women, he had long ago in the primaries gratuitously insulted his more moderate rivals and their supporters. He bragged about his lone-wolf candidacy and claimed that his polls were — and would be — always tremendous — contrary to his present deprecation of them. Is it all that surprising that some in his party and some independents, who felt offended, swear that they will not stoop to vote for him when in extremis he now needs them? Or that party stalwarts protest that they no longer wish to be associated with a malodorous albatross hung around their neck?

That question of payback gains importance if the race in the last weeks once again narrows. Trump had by mid September recaptured many of the constituencies that once put John McCain and Mitt Romney within striking distance of Barack Obama. And because Trump has apparently brought back to the Republican cause millions of the old Reagan Democrats, various tea-partiers, and the working classes, and since Hillary Clinton is a far weaker candidate than was Barack Obama, in theory he should have had a better shot to win the popular vote than has any Republican candidate since incumbent president George W. Bush in 2004.

more
http://www.nationalreview.com/node/441126/print
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 02:58:06 pm »
The Case for Trump

To summarize that long article in three words: "He's not Clinton."  Really, that's all VDH can offer.  It's an effective argument, so far as it goes.  Hillary Clinton is unfit for the office -- something upon which we all agree.

However.

In all the words VDH expended on that article, he never -- not even once -- goes into detail about Trump's actual qualifications for the office.  We read that he says stuff.  We read that he has tapped into a wellspring of frustration and anger.  We read about all of the things and people that make us all mad.  We read that "A President Trump might shake up U.S. foreign policy in controversial and not always polite ways. " (Emphasis mine) 

But in all that, we never see VDH argue that Trump is actually fit for the office.

And that's the problem people like me have with the guy.  Trump's behavior shows him to be a thin-skinned, undisciplined, bombastic, incoherent, and a host of other infirmities that are utterly at odds with the sort of temperament a president must have, especially when that president will be faced with a set of very serious crises.  Time and time again, his behavior has revealed him to be a man who picks stupid fights, shoots himself in the foot, and who cannot look beyond personal slights, real or imagined.  He throws gasoline on fires.

In short, past performance suggests that Trump will make things worse rather than better.

What are we to do, when both major-party candidates are manifestly and completely unfit for the office?

« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 02:59:27 pm by r9etb »

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,960
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 03:21:04 pm »
To summarize that long article in three words: "He's not Clinton."  Really, that's all VDH can offer.  It's an effective argument, so far as it goes.  Hillary Clinton is unfit for the office -- something upon which we all agree.

However.

In all the words VDH expended on that article, he never -- not even once -- goes into detail about Trump's actual qualifications for the office.  We read that he says stuff.  We read that he has tapped into a wellspring of frustration and anger.  We read about all of the things and people that make us all mad.  We read that "A President Trump might shake up U.S. foreign policy in controversial and not always polite ways. " (Emphasis mine) 

But in all that, we never see VDH argue that Trump is actually fit for the office.

And that's the problem people like me have with the guy.  Trump's behavior shows him to be a thin-skinned, undisciplined, bombastic, incoherent, and a host of other infirmities that are utterly at odds with the sort of temperament a president must have, especially when that president will be faced with a set of very serious crises.  Time and time again, his behavior has revealed him to be a man who picks stupid fights, shoots himself in the foot, and who cannot look beyond personal slights, real or imagined.  He throws gasoline on fires.

In short, past performance suggests that Trump will make things worse rather than better.

What are we to do, when both major-party candidates are manifestly and completely unfit for the office?
:amen: And this idea that Trump got the majority of Pubbie voters is not true. In all the early primaries he only got 35-40% of the vote many of those crossovers.  He still got drubbed in some primaries. If he was such the huge People's Choice, why wasn't he getting 60-70% in all those primaries?

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 03:29:25 pm »
And this idea that Trump got the majority of Pubbie voters is not true. In all the early primaries he only got 35-40% of the vote many of those crossovers.  He still got drubbed in some primaries. If he was such the huge People's Choice, why wasn't he getting 60-70% in all those primaries?

When one is grasping at straws, as his ardent supporters now are...

Still: when one considers that even Trump is within striking distance of Clinton.... the primary system failed this time around, as it has failed in the past.  Trump had the advantage of 16 opponents -- some of whom are at least fit for the office -- among whom all the other votes could be cast, whereas he had a lock on the "Build the Wall!" demographic and its misguided enthusiasm.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 03:33:22 pm by r9etb »

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 05:56:51 pm »
No.

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,711
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 02:26:51 am »
A lengthly piece, but worth reading.

Some quotes from Mr. Hanson:
===================
"Trumpism was no fluke. During the primaries, a solid conservative governor, Scott Walker, at times seemed a deer in the headlights on illegal immigration. A charismatic Marco Rubio fell into robotic recitations of boilerplate. A decent Jeb Bush’s characterization of illegal immigration as “an act of love” was no gaffe but seemed a window into his own privilege. Multi-talented Ted Cruz convinced few that he was the elder Cato. Rand Paul reminded us why we would not vote for Ron Paul. Bobby Jindal and Rick Perry demonstrated how successful governors might not inspire the country. Chris Christie played the bully boy one too many times. The inspired outsiders, Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson, never quite got beyond being inspired outsiders. Campaigning is like war: It often involves a tragic correction to early mistaken appraisals of relative strength and weakness formed in calmer times. Casualties pile up to prove what should have been known but went unrecognized before blows fell: in this case, that in his energetic harnessing of popular anger, Trump, my own least favorite in the field, was the more effective candidate in gauging the mood of the times."

"Something has gone terribly wrong with the Republican party, and it has nothing to do with the flaws of Donald Trump. Something like his tone and message would have to be invented if he did not exist. None of the other 16 primary candidates — the great majority of whom had far greater political expertise, more even temperaments, and more knowledge of issues than did Trump — shared Trump’s sense of outrage — or his ability to convey it — over what was wrong: The lives and concerns of the Republican establishment in the media and government no longer resembled those of half their supporters."

"The ancient idea of tragic irony can sometimes be described as an outcome unfortunately contrary to what should have been expected. Many of us did not vote in the primaries for Trump, because we did not believe that he was sufficiently conservative or, given his polarizing demeanor, that he could win the presidency even if he were.

The irony is now upon us that Trump may have been the most conservative Republican candidate who still could beat Hillary Clinton — and that if he were to win, he might usher in the most conservative Congress, presidency, and Supreme Court in nearly a century."

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 02:48:48 am »
Hanson has been moving toward Trump for months.

He's an outstanding historian and writer, but offers no rationale in favor of Trump.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 02:59:02 am »
Hanson has been moving toward Trump for months.

He's an outstanding historian and writer, but offers no rationale in favor of Trump.

and that if he were to win, he might usher in the most conservative Congress, presidency, and Supreme Court in nearly a century."

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,015
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2016, 07:52:43 am »
and that if he were to win, he might usher in the most conservative Congress, presidency, and Supreme Court in nearly a century."


Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,484
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 08:09:45 am »
To summarize that long article in three words: "He's not Clinton."  Really, that's all VDH can offer.  It's an effective argument, so far as it goes.  Hillary Clinton is unfit for the office -- something upon which we all agree.

However.

In all the words VDH expended on that article, he never -- not even once -- goes into detail about Trump's actual qualifications for the office.  We read that he says stuff.  We read that he has tapped into a wellspring of frustration and anger.  We read about all of the things and people that make us all mad.  We read that "A President Trump might shake up U.S. foreign policy in controversial and not always polite ways. " (Emphasis mine) 

But in all that, we never see VDH argue that Trump is actually fit for the office.

And that's the problem people like me have with the guy.  Trump's behavior shows him to be a thin-skinned, undisciplined, bombastic, incoherent, and a host of other infirmities that are utterly at odds with the sort of temperament a president must have, especially when that president will be faced with a set of very serious crises.  Time and time again, his behavior has revealed him to be a man who picks stupid fights, shoots himself in the foot, and who cannot look beyond personal slights, real or imagined.  He throws gasoline on fires.

In short, past performance suggests that Trump will make things worse rather than better.

What are we to do, when both major-party candidates are manifestly and completely unfit for the office?

Thank you for the summary. Saved me some time.

I'd love to see Trump to go full kamikaze on Hillary where he takes her and himself out. That would be a miracle worth celebrating... Taking one for the team and all... I can dream...

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,484
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 10:16:18 am »
It's October 18th. It seems like its been sorta quite for a day or two. Isn't it time for some more scorched earth from our two champs?

Offline aligncare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,916
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 10:32:31 am »
Quote
The irony is now upon us that Trump may have been the most conservative Republican candidate who still could beat Hillary Clinton — and that if he were to win, he might usher in the most conservative Congress, presidency, and Supreme Court in nearly a century."

It's no surprise to those of us who've supported Mr. Trump from the very beginning that his personality and skills set made him likely to be one of the great American presidents.

I have no doubt that with our help Mr. Trump will work very hard to rebuild American sovereignty.

Trump-Pence 2016


Offline Major Confusion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 136
  • Gender: Male
  • If you don't like my opinion, Byte Me.
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 11:36:36 am »

What are we to do, when both major-party candidates are manifestly and completely unfit for the office?

You can do what I plan to do, and vote Libertarian. It's not a perfect solution, but this way I participate in the process without enabling either of the major party candidates, neither of whom I can stand.
If you don't like my opinion, Byte Me.

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 11:43:05 am »
and that if he were to win, he might usher in the most conservative Congress, presidency, and Supreme Court in nearly a century."

Trump is not even remotely a conservative, nothing about Trump is conservative. He is not supporting a Republican Congress and he would appoint liberals, like himself, to the courts if he had the power.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2016, 12:28:36 pm »


But in all that, we never see VDH argue that Trump is actually fit for the office.

And that's the problem people like me have with the guy.  Trump's behavior shows him to be a thin-skinned, undisciplined, bombastic, incoherent, and a host of other infirmities that are utterly at odds with the sort of temperament a president must have, especially when that president will be faced with a set of very serious crises.  Time and time again, his behavior has revealed him to be a man who picks stupid fights, shoots himself in the foot, and who cannot look beyond personal slights, real or imagined.  He throws gasoline on fires.

In short, past performance suggests that Trump will make things worse rather than better.

What are we to do, when both major-party candidates are manifestly and completely unfit for the office?

Well said.   The most rational argument I've heard for Trump is that he'd be easier to impeach than Hillary.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2016, 12:30:05 pm »
It's no surprise to those of us who've supported Mr. Trump from the very beginning that his personality and skills set made him likely to be one of the great American presidents.


So is that how you defend crazy?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2016, 12:57:21 pm »
So is that how you defend crazy?


Says who has the Woody Guthrie avatar.

You voted for Kasich? Really?

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2016, 01:09:40 pm »
VDH - "Nor is the election a choice even between four more years of liberalism and a return of conservatism; it’s an effort to halt the fundamental transformation of the country. A likely two-term Clinton presidency would complete a 16-year institutionalization of serial progressive abuse of the Constitution, outdoing even the twelve years of the imperial Roosevelt administration."


Yup.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2016, 01:41:03 pm »

Says who has the Woody Guthrie avatar.

You voted for Kasich? Really?

Yeah,  really.  But then again I'm an old guy who remembers the Reagan revolution, and Kasich as a key member of the first wave of GOP legislators who help enact Reagan's vision.   

Kasich is an honest man who recognizes that politics is a means to an end - the enactment of sound and effective policy -  not a pretext for partisan warfare.   He was and remains a budget hawk,  a species of Republican that's increasingly rare these days as both parties ignore the coming entitlement crisis and race to spend Other People's Money.  And I couldn't be prouder to say that I've backed the one GOP candidate that, to this day, has refused to endorse that false messiah, Donald Trump. 

As for Woody - he fought fascism and so do I.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2016, 01:47:59 pm »
As for Woody - he fought fascism and so do I.

Just a reminder: you're arguing with a guy who's arguing about your choice of avatar. 

Offline guitar4jesus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Gender: Male
  • Yup...
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2016, 01:56:48 pm »
Just a reminder: you're arguing with a guy who's arguing about your choice of avatar.


Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2016, 02:00:55 pm »
Just a reminder: you're arguing with a guy who's arguing about your choice of avatar.

He's also a guy who called me a sinner because I made a joke about Clark Gable and Marilyn Monroe.

Not exactly a serious thinker there........
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2016, 02:13:49 pm »
Is expanding Medcaid being a budget hawk? 

It depends on whether Ohio's expansion of Medicaid, financed with federal dollars, has on balance better served the Ohio citizenry,  as compared with the old system where the working poor,  without health insurance,  clogged hospital emergency rooms and saddled Ohio hospitals and taxpayers with the costs of uncompensated care. 

What say you, RAT?   Look at the costs of inaction, too.   Have you ever needed real emergency room care and had to wait your turn for hours and hours as uninsured folks use the emergency room for routine matters they now can go to a family doctor for?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 02:14:05 pm »
Just a reminder: you're arguing with a guy who's arguing about your choice of avatar.


Well, Guthrie was a self-described communist. He wasn't against fascism but a different brand of fascism.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Case for Trump...By Victor Davis Hanson
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 02:15:22 pm »
Just a reminder: you're arguing with a guy who's arguing about your choice of avatar.

It's cool.  It gives me another chance to laud Kasich for being right about Trump, and never wavering.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide