Marines' requirements for infantry officers are unrealistic, Army colonel says

[rangerrebew]

Marines' requirements for infantry officers are unrealistic, Army colonel says

By: Ellen Haring, October 15, 2016 (Photo Credit: Cpl. Aaron Henson/Marine Corps)
Editor's note: The following is an opinion piece. The writer is not employed by Military Times and the views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of Military Times or its editorial staff.

Eight women have now successfully completed the Combat Endurance Test (CET) at the Marine Corps Infantry Officer Course (IOC), the Basic School commander told the Defense Advisory Council on Women in the Services, Sept. 13. Colonel Mark Clingan said the CET is a screening tool used to weed out officers who are not likely to pass the course. However, none of the eight women who passed the CET graduated IOC.

Interestingly, Clingan further reported that six of the eight women had passed the CET in the top 50 percent of their class and two of the women had passed in the top 10 percent of their class. All eight who passed the CET were later eliminated during hikes when loads began to exceed 100 pounds.  When committee members asked how it was that enlisted Marine women had been so much more successful in infantry training, they were told that infantry officers must be able to carry a “sustainment load” of up to 152 pounds for 9.3 miles at a 3-mile-per-hour pace in order to graduate from their course, while loads are much lighter (62 pounds) for enlisted Marines.  According to Clingan, basic enlisted infantry training trains Marines to a much lower bar with the expectation that once they reach their units they will be trained up to meet the 152 pound, 9.3 miles at the 3-mile-per-hour standard.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-requirements-for-infantry-officers-are-unrealistic-army-colonel-says

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Colonel Ellen Haring wrote that article....

IOC Lts. are not required to carry that much weight for the whole march.  That being said, there's also this....

So my question to the Marine Corps is -- where did they get these standards, who validated them and who can actually meet them?  They don’t appear to be operationally based and it sounds like no Marine infantry unit can meet them. They certainly aren’t regular or recurring requirements to be a Marine infantryman -- which means they don’t meet legal standards.

For starters, these are not infantrymen.  These are Marine Infantry officers. They are expected to be able to set an example, and not look beaten/ragged out when leading their Marines on marches.  They have to be able to participate in such marches, and complete them, while leading their Marines, encouraging those lagging behind, communicating up and down the chain of command, etc..  They cannot be "trained up" when they get to their units in terms of physical conditioning.  They have to be able to lead in that respect right from the start.

Second, training cannot adequately recreate the long-term physical demands of such duties, which will include periods of time with inadequate rest, nagging physical injuries, and simply wearing down over the course of a long deployment or sustained operations.  To compensate for that, you train to a higher level than what you will be expected to do so you have those reserves when things get tough.

This is all about the push to lower standards by those whose mindset prioritizing gender integration over combat capabilities.

[rangerrebew]

I was waiting to see your response to this and it was about what I thought it would be.  As we both know, the colonel is where she is because she's good at  .  If she questions such standards, she is part of the Obama revolution and not a true military person.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I was waiting to see your response to this and it was about what I thought it would be.  As we both know, the colonel is where she is because she's good at  .  If she questions such standards, she is part of the Obama revolution and not a true military person.

Well, I could say that perhaps the emoji on the left should turn around, but I should remain a gentleman....

She clearly is someone who just doesn't get it.  Training has to be harder because you cannot simulate every single permutation of what might happen.  Her goal very clearly is not maximizing military effectiveness.  It's maximizing gender equality.

Real kicker is to think of all true combat troops who had to salute her....

[dfwgator]

To Liberals, the military is just another social program.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Maybe that's why the person complaining is in the Army. 

[mountaineer]

All eight who passed the CET were later eliminated during hikes when loads began to exceed 100 pounds. 

Okey doke. That's the thing, you can't just pick and choose which part of the test you want to take. (And amen! to everything you all have said).

[Maj. Bill Martin]

That pretty much matches my own observations.  I saw a very few exceptionally fit women who could run well, do obstacles courses well, etc..  It's when you start piling on the gear and requiring long periods of movement/muscle endurance that it just doesn't work.  The leaner body type necessary for a woman to do well at those speed-based things just doesn't work when it comes to load bearing.  Marines are overwhelmingly leg infantry, and there's no way around those requirements.  Gear doesn't get any lighter, distances don't get shorter, and time doesn't vary based on your gender.

Saw that in spades during the course of a couple years when I was in a training support company that had females in some platoons/sections.  They simply could not keep up on the humps even when busting their asses.

I actually feel badly for the vast majority of female Marines who have to deal with this crap.  Prior to this PC push, women Marines were respected for the contributions they could make in a lot of different MOS's.  This push has essentially just shined a giant spotlight on their physical limitations, which is something we didn't used to dwell on before.