Author Topic: ‘After TWENTY years of defending these guys, I’M DONE!!’ – Dana Perino  (Read 8638 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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None of them knew how to handle Trump. It derailed them. They couldn't talk issues because Trump was setting the agenda with his latest verbal spew.
If they couldn't handle Trump, how could they have handled Hillary's machine with the willing media?

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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The GOP's problems started way before Trump.  Trump was just the final straw.  But I think it was doomed either way.  The field of candidates was weak from top to bottom.  I mean if Trump was able to win the nomination, what did that say about the rest of the field?  I'm sure the candidates were better people than Trump,  but they just weren't very good campaigners.

I think it says more about how the disappointed Republican electorate mismanaged their anger. They let the pendulum swing too far in the opposite direction, and instead of soberly assessing the field, they went for the wild man-child.

Peter Jennings didn't have any idea what a temper tantrum really looks like. If he were alive today, he'd realize that 2016 is the year Republicans had a true temper tantrum, a.k.a., Trumpertantrum.


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Offline dfwgator

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I think it says more about how the disappointed Republican electorate mismanaged their anger. They let the pendulum swing too far in the opposite direction, and instead of soberly assessing the field, they went for the wild man-child.

Peter Jennings didn't have any idea what a temper tantrum really looks like. If he were alive today, he'd realize that 2016 is the year Republicans had a true temper tantrum, a.k.a., Trumpertantrum.

Because they got nowhere with the Milquetoasts.   I don't blame them for wanting to try something different for once,  it didn't work out this time.  Lessons learned.

Offline Smokin Joe

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The problem is all of the other candidates were relative newbies without the kind of "gravitas" to overcome it.  Cruz, Rubio, Fiorino, et. al were all relatively unknown.  Kasich probably was the one with the most experience, but he was way too liberal for the base.   The only big name was Jeb, and well, nobody wants the Bushes anymore, so he was a non-starter.
I had been paying attention to Cruz in the Senate. He'd given a couple of those 'ambush interviews' and came across quite well. I knew others who mentioned him first, so he was known among those paying attention.

Cruz was kept on the defensive from Iowa, and the smear machine never let up. I honestly don't think he was prepared for that so much as debate on the issues. Trump made Cruz' campaign about defending Cruz as much as promoting ideas, and Trump captured an inordinate amount of air time by staying controversial.

While I question such a strategy with a better focused electorate, the sheer and unbridled anger of GOP voters at the MSM, at Congressmen who reneged on the promises they made to get elected and often did not even seem to try to hinder Obama was successfully harnessed by a cult of personality which grew rapidly around Trump. I have little doubt that there were paid operatives on prominent internet forums, twitter, and facebook who worked the crowd to incite that anger and direct it toward anyone but Trump in order to build that cult. That isn't saying all Trump supporters were/are that far in, just enough that any expression of opinion contrary to those worshipful of Trump was met with hostility, harassment, or silenced.

Despite that, the Cruz ground game was solid, and brought him a lot of delegates where Trump didn't even make an effort. Of course, Trump countered that by saying Cruz "stole" those delegates, ever playing the meme that Cruz was using 'dirty tricks', even as Trump slandered him, his wife, and his father with the help of his pal at the National Enquirer and a well trolled internet always hungry for rumor, invective, and scandal. That Cruz did so well against an onslaught unprecedented in the last century of American Politics shows he did quite well, considering he is not the master of self-promotion Trump has made his living being.

Trump successfully harnessed the electorate's anger at poor border security, poor employment prospects, the entire EPA onslaught against American industry (even though Trump said he'd use the EPA to the fullest extent of the law when campaigning in Iowa), unbridled immigration-legal and illegal, especially appealing to xenophobic elements with 'the wall', something Cruz has suggested in 2011, and Trump got the voters to think it was Trump's idea. In fact, many of the ideas Trump put forth (and often walked back) were much the same as the policy points Cruz had had.
The salient difference, unfortunately, is one of character. While I think, given the opportunity, Cruz would have become even better at campaigning, and gone on to defeat Hillary, Trump's history of egregious misbehaviour has become a burden even too great for his cult to bear. Unfortunately, the MSM and the Clintons are using that against Trump, much as the fabricated and fictional misdeeds of Cruz were used against Cruz.

That gambit is simple. Keep the media talking about the sins of the other guy.
Drag out the very real dirt and push that against them.

If Trump had gained that upper hand against the Clintons and used it as effectively as he used it against his Republican opponents, he'd still be in the running. But the Clinton camp has had months to study the strategy, how it worked, why it worked, and remodel it to appeal to not only their base, but the swing votes in the middle, women, and even the religious, and turn it against Trump. That whole time, Trump has either been on the defensive or has been utilizing the same frenzied arguments against the GOP, preoccupied with unconditional loyalty instead of stripping Hillary of the same.

The corner Trump is in leaves him unable to pander to any in the groups he needs to win without alienating his core base of loyal followers. Disillusion those and the election goes to Hillary in a landslide, where otherwise it may be a little closer. Clinton will likely win the majority women's vote, Democrats, of course, blacks, hispanics, gays, and will even attract some blue dog democrats who don't think trump is a good deal. I think third party votes, especially Libertarian Party will be higher than in the past, and I hope the Constitution Party makes progress.
I think the schism in the GOP will not be healed and although I think the party will continue for a couple  more cycles at least, if the management stays the same it is on its way to the Elephant's graveyard. That isn't wishful thinking, I had hoped the party could be steered back toward Constitutional Republicaninsm, but the entrenched power elite in the party want no parts of that, as evidenced by the past series of elections, their attitude toward the TEA party faction of the GOP, and toward Conservatives since Goldwater. Ronald Reagan, God Bless him, was a fluke, and the closest we got to a Conservative in the Oval office in a long time. It won't happen again until another Party is ready to move in as the prime contender against the Democrats. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline dfwgator

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Trying to be somewhat of an optimist (which is against my nature),   I don't think the GOP is any worse off than it was after 1964 and the Goldwater debacle.   

I think Hillary's presidency will be an epic failure, and all of this will quickly be forgotten.  At least I hope so.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Trying to be somewhat of an optimist (which is against my nature),   I don't think the GOP is any worse off than it was after 1964 and the Goldwater debacle.   

I think Hillary's presidency will be an epic failure, and all of this will quickly be forgotten.  At least I hope so.
I agree about a Hillary Presidency, but I don't think it will be quickly forgotten.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

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Note, it is October 14th and were already performing the election autopsy...

I think the real question is what will become of the GOP. Is this its Whig's moment? Will it assume it didn't go far enough left, as it always seems to do? Or will it finally listen to what was its conservative base? Will Trump be gone or did he get a taste of something he can't let go of? And then there's the alt-right...

At this point I don't expect much. At a minimum I have to hunker down and try to survive the coming Hillary storm and I didn't survive the Obama storm very well... I'm running pretty low on optimism these days.

Online DB

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I agree about a Hillary Presidency, but I don't think it will be quickly forgotten.

Or forgiven.

Offline dfwgator

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I hate to say it, but I just don't know if there are enough conservatives around anymore.   I think it's the sad truth we're going to have to start facing.

Online DB

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Yes! At least we know it can't go much lower!  :nometalk:

That could be the kiss of death. It is Oct 15th. I don't want to find out what the lower it can go...

geronl

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The GOP's problems started way before Trump.  Trump was just the final straw.  But I think it was doomed either way.  The field of candidates was weak from top to bottom.  I mean if Trump was able to win the nomination, what did that say about the rest of the field?  I'm sure the candidates were better people than Trump,  but they just weren't very good campaigners.

There were a lot of good candidates, any of the others would have beaten Hillary like a toy drum. Trump was her pawn and she used him well, knowing the vote would be split among the others.

Offline Axeslinger

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None of them knew how to handle Trump. It derailed them. They couldn't talk issues because Trump was setting the agenda with his latest verbal spew.

I don't entirely agree, although what you said is absolutely true for some of them (Rubio, bush, etc).  For the rest, it wasn't that they couldn't handle trump, it's that they couldn't get a word in edge-wise with the media vacuum that the press created FOR trump.  Make no mistake, we have trump because he is exactly who the media wanted us to have.

Don't believe me:  go see how many 40 minute speeches of ted Cruz or Carly fiorina or Ben Carson were shown on the news networks in their entirety.  Then look and see how many of trumps were at that same time.  The MSM wanted Trump v Clinton because that was the only race they stood a chance of winning.
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Offline Sanguine

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Trying to be somewhat of an optimist (which is against my nature),   I don't think the GOP is any worse off than it was after 1964 and the Goldwater debacle.   

I think Hillary's presidency will be an epic failure, and all of this will quickly be forgotten.  At least I hope so.

'64?  I think you could make a good case for tracking many of our current ills can be traced to that turning point in history.  Pre-64, America was one thing, after-64 something quite different. 

Offline Sanguine

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I wasn't aware that some healthy skepticism was creeping back into Fox.   Good.  I may be able to watch it on occasion now.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I hate to say it, but I just don't know if there are enough conservatives around anymore.   I think it's the sad truth we're going to have to start facing.
There are, but the brand has been thoroughly trashed.
People from all over the political spectrum have been calling themselves "conservative".
It has regional differences as well. (What those of us in the hinterlands understood when reference was made to 'New York Values'.).
As they often do, liberals have made the term meaningless by calling the candidate who is running against the uberliberal "conservative" when they only are in a relative sense.

We need a new name for what we stand for.

There is bloody little in the political landscape worth conserving as it stands and is practiced.

Getting back to the Constitution is the only hope of restoring the Republic. Getting the Federal Government hammered back into its limited powers, restoring States' Rights and the Rights of the individual, and returning the Federal Government to fulfilling its prescribed duties and only those is the ticket to having a successful nation again.
America made incredible progress when we were closer to that form of government, and ever stagnates under the increasing burden of an increasingly centralized and totalitarian government.

We do great injustice to those who founded this country, who had often studied the very things which destroy nations and even empires, and did their utmost to avoid them by acknowledging the Rights of the Individual, creating a balance of power in the hands of individuals and the government they created to constrain that Government and yet permit it to function, not as some tightly controlled entity, but with enough leeway to survive and adapt to changing times, without sacrificing individual Rights to do so.
 
It has been a series of false dichotomies which have led us down this fallacious path.
Either you pay to feed all the hungry or you want them to starve.
Either you let the people with Social work degrees run your life or you hate children.
Either you do this or you're not that, or you are all for the evil du jour.
Either you give up your guns or you are for blood in the streets (another popular fallacy).
We still see that mentality daily, and somehow it is still effective, that either you are for more government or you hate puppies and kittens and laughing children...

Enough.
Just enough.
Time to quit.

We became a great nation because of our ability to say "None of the above, I have a better solution." We innovated, we invented, we conceived, designed, and built wonders only dreamed of. We prevailed in warfare, in technical prowess, in exploration, and in economic strength, not because the Government ran things, but because of the tremendous freedom to think, conceive, innovate, and construct those wonders. Now, even the activities at play that children of my youth freely participated in are constrained or forbidden, those playtime fantasies being the stuff that dreams are made of, those dreams the inspiration for true advancement.

Worse yet, so many of our countrymen (and women--and the Heinz 57 other gender identities out there) have become comfortable with their chains, a mantle of over reaching regulation and at best fight hair splitting battles over this word or that phrase, without even considering the question of the legitimacy of such authority over the individual, his family, his property, or his actions.

Maybe there aren't enough people left who more value that freedom than fear it.
But having listened to the grumblings of yet another generation, I doubt that.
I'd be willing to try, nonetheless.


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« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 02:22:46 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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I have never spoken a word in support of Trump - but yet, I have tried to remain open to the possibility.  Oh, I have tried.

Not anymore. 

He has irretrievably lost me. 

His steadfast supporters are now extensions of Trump himself.  To them, I will now be a bad guy.  His soon-to-be failed election will be a watershed episode for the ages.  Much, probably all, to the worse.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 02:29:54 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Online bigheadfred

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Can someone explain to me why Megyn Kelly is still at that sewer?

She has a huge marble collection. With her prit-kongs on display.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Bigun

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I have never spoken a word in support of Trump - but yet, I have tried to remain open to the possibility.  Oh, I have tried.

Not anymore. 

He has irretrievably lost me. 

His steadfast supporters are now parodies of Trump himself.  To them, I will now be a bad guy.  His soon-to-be failed election will be a watershed episode for the ages.  Much, probably all, to the worse.

I have spoken the truth about Trump from day one and have lost friends here and elsewhere over it. I hate that my former friends cannot stand the light of truth but that is never going to stop me from speaking it.

You are a stand up guy Lando.  Glad to have you as a friend.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online Lando Lincoln

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You are a stand up guy Lando.  Glad to have you as a friend.

You and I have disagreed from time to time Bigun, but it has always been with mutual respect.  As it should be.  I am honored to call you friend.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
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Offline aligncare

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Defend this, Dana.



Yes, that's Anderson Cooper and Megyn Kelly. Two media whores who spend their time on air trying to derail Trump. If they succeed, say Hello Madam President.

But, listen to me. No one here cares. Just so long as they get to say "I told you so."

#NeverTrump: A clear and present danger to the republic.

Offline guitar4jesus

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I don't entirely agree, although what you said is absolutely true for some of them (Rubio, bush, etc).  For the rest, it wasn't that they couldn't handle trump, it's that they couldn't get a word in edge-wise with the media vacuum that the press created FOR trump.  Make no mistake, we have trump because he is exactly who the media wanted us to have.

Don't believe me:  go see how many 40 minute speeches of ted Cruz or Carly fiorina or Ben Carson were shown on the news networks in their entirety.  Then look and see how many of trumps were at that same time.  The MSM wanted Trump v Clinton because that was the only race they stood a chance of winning.

Exactly!   goopo

Offline Bigun

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You and I have disagreed from time to time Bigun, but it has always been with mutual respect.  As it should be.  I am honored to call you friend.

Disagreements between human beings are as natural as sunlight and rain.  They don't necessarily need to be destructive.  Great to see you here this morning.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Lando Lincoln

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Glad to have you as a friend.

One more thing.  One day, I'll be down your way and I'd be proud to buy you and the missus a big chunk of Texas beef.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Defend this, Dana.

> image deleted<

Yes, that's Anderson Cooper and Megyn Kelly. Two media whores who spend their time on air trying to derail Trump. If they succeed, say Hello Madam President.

But, listen to me. No one here cares. Just so long as they get to say "I told you so."

#NeverTrump: A clear and present danger to the republic.
Wow, you are getting desperate.
We've seen Mrs. Trump's cover shot, too.

But don't attack the message, attack the messenger, now that Trump is bleeding votes out of his ....whatever.

It is the Trumpian way.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 02:49:27 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

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Defend this, Dana.

Yes, that's Anderson Cooper and Megyn Kelly. Two media whores who spend their time on air trying to derail Trump. If they succeed, say Hello Madam President.

But, listen to me. No one here cares. Just so long as they get to say "I told you so."

#NeverTrump: A clear and present danger to the republic.

Megan has dead cold shark eyes. I can't stand to look at her.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley