The GOP is history. What about the country?

[HonestJohn]

By Fareed Zakaria
Opinion writer
October 13 at 5:23 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-gop-is-history-what-about-the-country/2016/10/13/7821a2a0-9168-11e6-9c85-ac42097b8cc0_story.html?utm_term=.1fdc4ce68249

Politics is an enduring feature of human life, but political parties are mortal. This week we watched the beginning of the end of one of the United States’ great, illustrious parties. The Republican Party, as we knew it, is dying.

The death of a party is not so unusual. Scholars divide U.S. history according to six distinct party systems, each responding to a particular political era. Sometimes parties retain their names but morph ideologically, like the Democratic Party, which went from being Southern, pro-slavery and pro-Jim Crow to the opposite. On other occasions, parties collapse entirely, as did the Whig Party in the mid-19th century, torn apart by divisions over slavery. (In fact, in an interesting parallel, the fall of the Whigs was hastened by the rise of a party called the Know-Nothings, dedicated to stopping what was then seen as uncontrolled immigration.) Whatever the form of the Republican Party’s collapse, it will be messy.

Sunday’s debate may have been the watershed moment. As many commentators and some of his own strategists noted, it was pretty obvious what Donald Trump needed to do — apologize, be contrite, and then strike broad themes of change, bringing back jobs and putting the nation first. Ideally, he would have reached out to women — the group of voters he desperately needs to win the election.

Instead, Trump did the opposite. He minimized his behavior as “locker-room banter,” accused Bill Clinton of much worse and paraded the former president’s accusers at a news conference. Since then, things have spiraled downward. Trump’s strange, self-defeating strategy has led to speculation that his real ambitions lie beyond the election, when he may set up a conservative media network to rival Fox News.

It’s quite possible. But in any event, what it means for the Republican Party is simple: Donald Trump is not going away. Many Republicans have nurtured a fantasy that their party has been briefly taken over by a strange historical aberration who will lose the election, and then somehow things will go back to normal. Trump has now made it clear that he will not go gently into the night.

(more at link)

[Jazzhead]

The GOP will be just fine -  if Trump is soundly defeated.   The events of the past week make clear that Trump's running as an independent anyway, albeit within the formal structure of the Republican Party.   But as Trump has "taken the shackles off",  so should we.  No self-respecting conservative Republican ought to feel any party loyalty to vote for Trump.   He's no Republican, he's just using the party as a vessel to push his anti-immigrant, anti-globalist jihad. 

Defeat Trump, and the GOP will come roaring back (in no small part because Clinton is tired and corrupt and will lack a mandate).  Sure, there will still be tensions between the neocons and the paleocons, but that's nothing new.   The Trumpsters will crawl back under their rocks, or form a nativist third party which is where they belonged in the first.   We were the victims of a hostile takeover this year, but the new emperor lack clothes.  It's darkest before the dawn.  But defeat him, and the sun will shine anew.   

It's become increasingly clear to me that the most important reason to refuse to vote for Trump is to save conservatism.   But don't anyone forget to vote for the down-ballot GOP ticket.  No matter which moral cretin becomes President,  a GOP Congress is a must.       

[goatprairie]

The GOP will be just fine -  if Trump is soundly defeated.   The events of the past week make clear that Trump's running as an independent anyway, albeit within the formal structure of the Republican Party.   But as Trump has "taken the shackles off",  so should we.  No self-respecting conservative Republican ought to feel any party loyalty to vote for Trump.   He's no Republican, he's just using the party as a vessel to push his anti-immigrant, anti-globalist jihad. 

Defeat Trump, and the GOP will come roaring back (in no small part because Clinton is tired and corrupt and will lack a mandate).  Sure, there will still be tensions between the neocons and the paleocons, but that's nothing new.   The Trumpsters will crawl back under their rocks, or form a nativist third party which is where they belonged in the first.   We were the victims of a hostile takeover this year, but the new emperor lack clothes.  It's darkest before the dawn.  But defeat him, and the sun will shine anew.   

It's become increasingly clear to me that the most important reason to refuse to vote for Trump is to save conservatism.   But don't anyone forget to vote for the down-ballot GOP ticket.  No matter which moral cretin becomes President,  a GOP Congress is a must.     

Yes, but I never thought a buffoon like Trump could ever gain traction. His ascendancy proves another loudmouth ignoramus could drag the party into the gutter in the future.
I don't see one at the moment, and (fortunately) all his surrogates in various congressional races were soundly drubbed this year.
But the fact remains there is a sizable pct. of "Republicans" for whom traditional definitions of what it means to be a conservative no longer apply. And I thought for sure Trump would be dismissed by all the big name "conservative" radio talking heads. Instead, they were among his biggest boosters.
So I fear that yes, the party has been irrevocably split. There are the traditional, conservative Republicans of varying degrees, and then there are the Trumpsters.  I can excuse the people who will vote for Trump because they want to defeat Hillary.
But the fact remains there is now a sizable pct. of people who think Trumpism is the future. How will it be possible to mend fences with people for whom conservative philosophy as defined by W.F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan has no purchase? I don't think the rift can be mended.

[dfwgator]

Hillary will fail epically.  Folks will forget about all of the GOPs problems by then.

[dfwgator]

Yes, but I never thought a buffoon like Trump could ever gain traction. His ascendancy proves another loudmouth ignoramus could drag the party into the gutter in the future.
I don't see one at the moment, and (fortunately) all his surrogates in various congressional races were soundly drubbed this year.
But the fact remains there is a sizable pct. of "Republicans" for whom traditional definitions of what it means to be a conservative no longer apply. And I thought for sure Trump would be dismissed by all the big name "conservative" radio talking heads. Instead, they were among his biggest boosters.
So I fear that yes, the party has been irrevocably split. There are the traditional, conservative Republicans of varying degrees, and then there are the Trumpsters.  I can excuse the people who will vote for Trump because they want to defeat Hillary.
But the fact remains there is now a sizable pct. of people who think Trumpism is the future. How will it be possible to mend fences with people for whom conservative philosophy as defined by W.F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan has no purchase? I don't think the rift can be mended.

While I don't think Trump is worthy to shine Goldwater's shoes,  what we have here is not so much different than in 1964, with the Rockefeller Republicans and the Goldwater people.  But that was all forgotten because of the disaster that was LBJ.   

[skeeter]

Hillary will fail epically.  Folks will forget about all of the GOPs problems by then.

It does seem like the next president, whomever it is, will face some kind of major crisis both economically and/or geopolitically, the fruit of the seeds planted by the current fraud in the white house, and his predecessors.

And we're talking about something on a considerably larger scale than Syria or Ukraine.

[dfwgator]

It does seem like the next president, whomever it is, will face some kind of major crisis both economically and/or geopolitically, the fruit of the seeds planted by the current fraud in the white house, and his predecessors.

And we're talking about something on a considerably larger scale than Syria or Ukraine.

Part of me will be glad that it won't be on the GOP's watch. 

[endicom]

Within my lifetime the GOP has several times been declared dead. Even the Dem Party is declared dead about every third decade. With any luck, the worst of the GOP rent seekers will have to seek elsewhere as the GOP regroups.

[Jazzhead]

While I don't think Trump is worthy to shine Goldwater's shoes,  what we have here is not so much different than in 1964, with the Rockefeller Republicans and the Goldwater people.  But that was all forgotten because of the disaster that was LBJ.

Good point.  Between now and the next future election are two years for the Dems' chickens to come home to roost.   

[dfwgator]

Good point.  Between now and the next future election are two years for the Dems' chickens to come home to roost.

And they will.  They are going to find Hillary's win to be a Pyrrhic Victory.

[INVAR]

I'm done and finished with the GOP - period.

Never again.

It's too late to stop what is coming, but while there is still some daylight in which to work, my efforts will be to foster a new home for principled Conservatives who adhere to and respect our religious and historical heritage.

[dfwgator]

I'm done and finished with the GOP - period.

Never again.

It's too late to stop what is coming, but while there is still some daylight in which to work, my efforts will be to foster a new home for principled Conservatives who adhere to and respect our religious and historical heritage.

I admire your idealism,  but I just don't see the evidence that the vast majority of Americans care about those kinds of things anymore.   

[dfwgator]

Trump is done politically, but the issues he brought to the forefront: opposition to rampant globalism and immigration reform are not going to go away.  The GOP is going to have to deal with it.

[jmyrlefuller]

The GOP will be just fine -  if Trump is soundly defeated.   The events of the past week make clear that Trump's running as an independent anyway, albeit within the formal structure of the Republican Party.   But as Trump has "taken the shackles off",  so should we.  No self-respecting conservative Republican ought to feel any party loyalty to vote for Trump.   He's no Republican, he's just using the party as a vessel to push his anti-immigrant, anti-globalist jihad. 

Defeat Trump, and the GOP will come roaring back (in no small part because Clinton is tired and corrupt and will lack a mandate).  Sure, there will still be tensions between the neocons and the paleocons, but that's nothing new.   The Trumpsters will crawl back under their rocks, or form a nativist third party which is where they belonged in the first.   We were the victims of a hostile takeover this year, but the new emperor lack clothes.  It's darkest before the dawn.  But defeat him, and the sun will shine anew.   

It's become increasingly clear to me that the most important reason to refuse to vote for Trump is to save conservatism.   But don't anyone forget to vote for the down-ballot GOP ticket.  No matter which moral cretin becomes President,  a GOP Congress is a must.     

I disagree with you in part. The GOP has been in trouble for several years. It faces demographic challenges, a rapidly changing electorate, and a rise in social media where feel-good liberalism is easy to package. Meanwhile, the GOP is tethered to a set of obsolete ideologies it can no longer defend—free trade is a perfect example: people are sick of us fighting wars in the Middle East while not defending our own economy from being undermined from abroad. They're sick of seeing their hometowns die while the big cities thrive and get all the good jobs they can't get because of a lack of connections or phony qualifications. There's real frustration that the Republican Party has no desire to address that Trump has exploited.

Trumpism did not rise in a vacuum. He took advantages of weaknesses the Republican Party and its "growth at all costs" philosophy has had for decades.

I do agree, however, that we need to reject Trump, for the sole reason that he is simply too dangerous and ruthless of a personality to be trusted with that much power.

[dfwgator]

Nothing is going to change until this country is literally staring into the abyss.   Them's just the facts.

[TomSea]

Majority of Governors are Republican, Majority of Legislatures are Republican, some of these stats by a big margin.

Sure Washington Post.

[sinkspur]

Trump is done politically, but the issues he brought to the forefront: opposition to rampant globalism and immigration reform are not going to go away.  The GOP is going to have to deal with it.

What is "rampant globalism"?  The solutions Trump offered would make things much worse.  Global trade is here to stay.  If you don't play, you lose.

[andy58-in-nh]

What is "rampant globalism"?  The solutions Trump offered would make things much worse.  Global trade is here to stay.  If you don't play, you lose.

Global trade is good, necessary and desirable. Global governance... not so much.

[INVAR]

I admire your idealism,  but I just don't see the evidence that the vast majority of Americans care about those kinds of things anymore.

I do not think they do either.

But I will do what I can while there is still daylight in which to work.

The night of consequences is coming, and is indeed within the gates.

Too many area oblivious and choose to remain so, because recognizing reality is something they cannot handle.

Oh well.

As Judgment falls, it is well-deserved, and this people cannot say they were not warned.