Author Topic: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?  (Read 15512 times)

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Offline 240B

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What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« on: October 13, 2016, 08:26:41 am »
I keep hearing that Trump is a friend of Russia, and it is always said as if that is a terrible thing. I am only asking Why?

Why is it so terrible if Russia is a friend of our President? I would love that. I do not see the problem that the Liberal Stalinist Moeist do?

They love every Communist in history except Putin, because Putin may be a friend of Trump.

I cannot figure it out. Does the Left love Russia, or do they hate Russia? My whole life I thought the hippies were all in the Che Guevara Communist camp. I don't know?

Now, suddenly Russia is a bad thing? If Russia loves Trump, then I love him too. I do not see the problem.

Back in the USSR!
Long Live Che! Long Live Trump!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 08:27:52 am by 240B »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 01:08:27 pm »
Uh huh. 

Offline ABX

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2016, 01:16:03 pm »
Countries don't really have friends, that's just a publicity term. Countries have interests and the question comes up is if the said country is working for our interest of against it.

Answer that and you'll understand why Putin is dangerous.

Offline Longmire

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 02:37:34 pm »
I keep hearing that Trump is a friend of Russia, and it is always said as if that is a terrible thing. I am only asking Why?

Trump himself asks the same question and it certainly begs the question which side of the WOT the United States is really on these days.

Americans get intentionally fed a lot of propaganda from the government via corporate news media, which is quite different from what is really taking place.

The "news" from Aleppo is a good example of how this type of propaganda reinforces an anti-Russian mindset

Trump sees past the bullsh!t that surrounds western anti-Russian propaganda and calls it out, which is one reason the DC establishment hates him.


Wingnut

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 02:44:21 pm »
Once again, Trump doesn't measure up against Russia and Putin.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:03:47 pm by mystery-ak »

Offline Gefn

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 02:45:15 pm »


Oh dear that is priceless.  :silly:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:04:12 pm by mystery-ak »
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 02:50:04 pm »
Russia sucks. Didn't you watch Rocky 4?


Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 02:54:10 pm »
Not much. This is one thing I agree with the Trumpkins on. Liberals are the enemy, not Russia.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 02:54:36 pm »
Then by all accounts, Reagan was a "Friend" of Russia.

I remember all of the Hawks that slammed Reagan at the time for going to Rejkjavik to talk to Gorby.  How dare he talk with the leader of the "Evil Empire".

Offline montanajoe

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 03:10:12 pm »
I keep hearing that Trump is a friend of Russia, and it is always said as if that is a terrible thing. I am only asking Why?

Why is it so terrible if Russia is a friend of our President? I would love that. I do not see the problem that the Liberal Stalinist Moeist do?

They love every Communist in history except Putin, because Putin may be a friend of Trump.

I cannot figure it out. Does the Left love Russia, or do they hate Russia? My whole life I thought the hippies were all in the Che Guevara Communist camp. I don't know?

Now, suddenly Russia is a bad thing? If Russia loves Trump, then I love him too. I do not see the problem.

Back in the USSR!
Long Live Che! Long Live Trump!

There is a myth on the right that Russia is our friend. Nothing could be further from the truth, Russia is our enemy and they will do anything in thier power to ultimately defeat the US. I've been in Russia and with few exceptions the average Russian hates Americans. Additionally I have run into the Russian state sponsored  Mafia throughout the world and they make the Mexican Mafia look like chior boys and the US mafia is not even close.

Putin and Russia are  our enemy..
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:11:07 pm by montanajoe »

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 03:14:35 pm »
There is a myth on the right that Russia is our friend. Nothing could be further from the truth, Russia is our enemy and they will do anything in thier power to ultimately defeat the US. I've been in Russia and with few exceptions the average Russian hates Americans. Additionally I have run into the Russian state sponsored  Mafia throughout the world and they make the Mexican Mafia look like chior boys and the US mafia is not even close.

Putin and Russia are  our enemy..

We don't have "friends", only interests, and sometimes our interests and Russia's match.    And even today, the average Russian actually still admires Reagan, because they found out what he had said about the Soviet Union was the Truth.

Offline Longmire

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2016, 03:22:15 pm »
I remember all of the Hawks that slammed Reagan at the time for going to Rejkjavik to talk to Gorby.  How dare he talk with the leader of the "Evil Empire".

Reagan took heat for his strategic defense initiative as well, especially the idea that once the technology was developed it would be shared with the Soviets so both sides would have parity.

Much of the progress from the Reagan years has been undone, to the point where British MPs are suggesting a shooting war with Russia over the civil war in Syria.

 

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2016, 03:22:28 pm »
Countries don't really have friends, that's just a publicity term. Countries have interests and the question comes up is if the said country is working for our interest of against it.

Answer that and you'll understand why Putin is dangerous.
We had a chance to bring Russia into the fold after the End of the Cold War.  But Bush with his "New World Order", and Clinton with his recklessness in the Balkans, squandered the victory that Reagan had given them.

Offline endicom

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2016, 04:09:55 pm »
We had a chance to bring Russia into the fold after the End of the Cold War.  But Bush with his "New World Order", and Clinton with his recklessness in the Balkans, squandered the victory that Reagan had given them.

Yes. Whatever were the particulars, we passed on a golden opportunity.

Wingnut

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2016, 04:17:01 pm »

Oh dear that is priceless.  :silly:



Trumps going to bring Russia back into the hold

Offline r9etb

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2016, 04:19:43 pm »
We had a chance to bring Russia into the fold after the End of the Cold War.  But Bush with his "New World Order", and Clinton with his recklessness in the Balkans, squandered the victory that Reagan had given them.

Piffle.  What happened to Russia after the Cold War was an internal collapse, and a power vacuum that was filled by those who were powerful and ruthless enough to fill it.  There was little that the West could have done, other than what it did do -- for better and worse -- mainly in the form of international commerce.

The fact that the vacuum was filled by the likes of Putin and other functionaries of the previous regime, is only to be expected. What we see now in Russia is what every generation in the past several centuries has seen in Russia.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2016, 04:23:55 pm »
Yes. Whatever were the particulars, we passed on a golden opportunity.

I think Reagan would have taken a much different approach than Bush.  But Bush thought, "Hey were the only Superpower, we can do whatever we want."   And Clinton continued that way.

Offline Longmire

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2016, 04:59:10 pm »
The fact that the vacuum was filled by the likes of Putin and other functionaries of the previous regime, is only to be expected.

Except that isn't what happened at all. Gorbachev led to Yeltsin and only after the interventionist cartel bombed Serbia did an old KGB hand appear on the scene.

Even then, it wasn't until the piffling global interventionists decided to carve themselves an even big slice of eastern Europe that Russia began to push back.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2016, 05:14:26 pm »
Except that isn't what happened at all. Gorbachev led to Yeltsin and only after the interventionist cartel bombed Serbia did an old KGB hand appear on the scene.

Even then, it wasn't until the piffling global interventionists decided to carve themselves an even big slice of eastern Europe that Russia began to push back.

Double piffle.  Whether you agree with the policy or not, a strong US, and to a lesser extent a strong Europe, kept the Russians somewhat contained.  The current vacuum is emboldening the Russians.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2016, 05:17:52 pm »
Double piffle.  Whether you agree with the policy or not, a strong US, and to a lesser extent a strong Europe, kept the Russians somewhat contained.  The current vacuum is emboldening the Russians.

How did going into Kosovo contain the Russians? 

Offline r9etb

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2016, 05:19:53 pm »
Double piffle.  Whether you agree with the policy or not, a strong US, and to a lesser extent a strong Europe, kept the Russians somewhat contained.  The current vacuum is emboldening the Russians.

What I said "piffle" to is the comment that Russia's current malfeasance had much at all to do with the supposed failures of Bush I, Clinton, or even Bush II.  The current vacuum is mainly due to the fecklessness of Obama, Clinton, and Kerry.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 05:23:10 pm »
What I said "piffle" to is the comment that Russia's current malfeasance had much at all to do with the supposed failures of Bush I, Clinton, or even Bush II.  The current vacuum is mainly due to the fecklessness of Obama, Clinton, and Kerry.

You do realize how close we came to war with Russia in Kosovo?   That's why the Russians don't want Hillary.   In fact, I think all their blathering is a way to send a message to Hillary, that there will be no Kosovos this time.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 05:24:39 pm by dfwgator »

geronl

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2016, 05:24:46 pm »
Russia's tyrannical government wants to defeat the US while invading neighboring countries.

Let's not "make friends" with dictators

Offline r9etb

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2016, 05:35:39 pm »
Except that isn't what happened at all. Gorbachev led to Yeltsin and only after the interventionist cartel bombed Serbia did an old KGB hand appear on the scene.

Even then, it wasn't until the piffling global interventionists decided to carve themselves an even big slice of eastern Europe that Russia began to push back.

Nope.

The collapse had been coming for years, began in earnest with Gorbachev and accelerated with Yeltsin, and Russia for quite a while was on the brink of anarchy.  That had nothing to do with "interventionist cartels" (which is a fancy way of saying "neocon," which is also stupid), and everything to do with the total and inevitable collapse of the communist government and economy.

The subsequent reassertion of power by the "Russian Oligarchs" and the likes of Putin, was predictable because it's how Russia has always been.  The question of how to deal with their attempts to re-establish "Old Russia" is not an easy one, especially as it deals with a kind of power projection that was supposedly rendered obsolete a century ago.

The confluence of Putin's brand of hard-nosed power politics, and Obama's brand of talk-heavy and sophomoric narcissism, naturally favors Putin.  Interestingly, Hillary Clinton's brand of corrupt and self-serving criminality is probably closest to Putin's approach, although he'll steam-roll her just as effectively as he has Obama and Kerry.  Trump would get mad, and just try to tweet him to death....

Offline r9etb

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Re: What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2016, 05:41:44 pm »
You do realize how close we came to war with Russia in Kosovo?   That's why the Russians don't want Hillary.   In fact, I think all their blathering is a way to send a message to Hillary, that there will be no Kosovos this time.

I do know.  Clinton overstepped there, and made a huge mistake by trying to assert military influence in a region that Russia has long considered to the "theirs."  But Clinton's rationale for being there in the first place had more to do with the political optics of "preventing genocide," as he had failed to do in Rwanda.  There were certainly other geopolitical factors at play, including a sense of keeping Russia contained.  But that's the kind of power play that Putin understands, and respects.