Author Topic: A generation of GOP stars stands diminished: ‘Everything Trump touches dies’  (Read 11449 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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It does, as does Trump's deep dishonesty, corruption, desire for absolutely power, and debauchery.




It is my belief that anyone comparing the levels of dishonesty, corruption and desire for absolute power between Hillary and Donald  simply do not have a good grasp of the levels of dishonesty,  corruption and absolute power which Hillary has already manifested in her long sordid history.   


Donald is a piker compared to Vicious,  Corrupt Hillary.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I've always suspected he whole 'conservative' thing was just a very lucrative schtick for some of these characters but this past year has been an epiphany, for certain.




Yes,  this last year has been quite illuminating.   I never realized we had so many people in the Republican Party who are not actually interested in advancing any conservative agenda.   


We are betrayed.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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They both worry me.   And there's nothing I can do so stop either one of these moral cretins with "dictatorial predilections"  from attaining the White House.   It's the system that's rigged, denying those with a moral compass from having an effective choice in this election.  Hence I will "throw my vote away" and sleep well.   


Your position reminds me of one of my favorite political cartoons.    It was from the 1970s and showed a cartoon Jimmy Carter walking down this path with ominous and scary looking trees with hands and claws,  as if they were about to pounce on him.   

The Caption reads:  "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil....   Because I simply don't understand the situation."  


In terms of threats posed,  Hillary is by far,  the worse threat to our lives and our future.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Untrustworthy and traitorous for refusing to bend over for an amoral demagogue?   Mark me guilty as charged -  this is 1933 redux and the only Republicans I will henceforth support are those who stood up against Trumpism.   



In other words,  you don't respect the will of a majority when it goes against you.    You apparently do not in fact believe in the Democratic process.     



‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline musiclady

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It is my belief that anyone comparing the levels of dishonesty, corruption and desire for absolute power between Hillary and Donald  simply do not have a good grasp of the levels of dishonesty,  corruption and absolute power which Hillary has already manifested in her long sordid history.   


Donald is a piker compared to Vicious,  Corrupt Hillary.   

That is an opinion. with which I disagree, but nonetheless what it means is that you are here supporting and trying to get others to support a man whom you recognize to be corrupt, dishonest, and desiring absolute power.

And stop with the "you don't understand Hillary" crap.  Everyone here supporting a third party candidate understands how vile and corrupt Hillary is.

THAT is what's so disturbing about the fact that blind, irrational Trump zealots are foisting her on us because of their allegiance to a liberal creep who cannot beat her.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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In other words,  you don't respect the will of a majority when it goes against you.    You apparently do not in fact believe in the Democratic process.     

Poppycock.

A plurality of a mix of liberal "Republicans" and Democrats forced liberal Trump on us.

It wasn't the "democratic process."  It was the thoughtless, irrational, angry plurality and having too many decent candidates that divided the rational vote that created this mess.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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That is an opinion. with which I disagree, but nonetheless what it means is that you are here supporting and trying to get others to support a man whom you recognize to be corrupt, dishonest, and desiring absolute power.


You are deliberately misstating my position.   I have clearly enunciated it many times,  and it is not right for you to continuously misrepresent my position which I have made absolutely clear.   


I oppose Hillary.   I do not "support"  Trump.    I recognize him as the tool which it is necessary to use in order to stop a dire threat from getting her hands on power.   



And stop with the "you don't understand Hillary" crap.  Everyone here supporting a third party candidate understands how vile and corrupt Hillary is.


No they do not.   If they understood it,   they would be willing to crawl barefoot over broken glass in an effort to make sure that horrible Nazi Witch never becomes a threat to our lives.   


There is no polite way to put this.   You don't know what you are talking about.   Hillary is pure evil.   She's not a little tainted,   she is a monster.   She will  get people killed.   She will enact a Nazi-like agenda of oppression and prosecutions against the decent  people in our society.   


She will force the Homosexual agenda on Churches,  and she will bring the power of the Federal Government to bear on conservative groups and individuals.   SHE HAS ALREADY TRIED TO DO THIS MULTIPLE TIMES IN HER LIFE!     




THAT is what's so disturbing about the fact that blind, irrational Trump zealots are foisting her on us because of their allegiance to a liberal creep who cannot beat her.


I do not know if Trump supporters here are "Zealots".   They may perhaps be,  like me,   terrified of that Nazi Witch getting her hands on the FBI and the US Army.   

I am pretty zealous about that being a very very bad thing.   As I keep pointing out,   Trump doesn't have a past which demonstrates he hates us and will persecute us.   Hillary *HAS*  exactly that sort of past. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline endicom

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Just Maj. Bill and Diogenes not taking whole the WaPo? The CINO NeverTrumpers right on board with the lefties? Well, golly!

What Trump may be killing is all fair game.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Poppycock.

A plurality of a mix of liberal "Republicans" and Democrats forced liberal Trump on us.



If you want to argue that our system should have a runoff in the event of a plurality,  then I agree with you.   I have always disliked the idea of electing someone on the basis of a plurality.   


But that is not the system we had in place when this last election occurred.    The existing democratic system allows pluralities,  and this is the paradigm under which our present system operates and has always operated.    It is the Democratic process of which we should all be familiar and presumably consent to if we participate in it.   


Did you participate?    If so,  I take that as a consent to this methodology and a tacit admission that you would  respect the result.   



It wasn't the "democratic process."  It was the thoughtless, irrational, angry plurality and having too many decent candidates that divided the rational vote that created this mess.


I agree.   I have long supported a numbering system where you would indicate your preferences by ranking them.    If nobody achieves a majority of first choices,   then the number two choices are evaluated,  and so forth. 


This is a much more effective method for arriving at a consensus upon which a majority can agree.

The fallacies of our current election system were very well covered in a chapter of a book called "Archimedes Revenge."    If you haven't read it,  I urge you to do so. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline endicom

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You are deliberately misstating my position.

Her stock in trade.

Quote
I have clearly enunciated it many times,  and it is not right for you to continuously misrepresent my position which I have made absolutely clear.

She doesn't care.   


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I oppose Hillary.   I do not "support"  Trump.    I recognize him as the tool which it is necessary to use in order to stop a dire threat from getting her hands on power.

All indications are that you are in the majority of Trump voters.   

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I do not know if Trump supporters here are "Zealots".   They may perhaps be,  like me,   terrified of that Nazi Witch getting her hands on the FBI and the US Army.

'ats a Rog.   

Offline Jazzhead

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In other words,  you don't respect the will of a majority when it goes against you.    You apparently do not in fact believe in the Democratic process.     

I've voted for the Republican Presidential nominee my entire adult life.  That's over forty years of loyalty; I do not need to prove my bona fides.   The problem with this year is that my party was the subject of a hostile takeover.   No,  I don't feel a smidgen of loyalty to your cult.  I will not be a good German, even as a "tool" to defeat Clinton.  TRUMP AND TRUMPISM IS WORSE.     

 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 02:27:34 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline TomSea

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Quote
WashPost Gushes Over Clintons in Campaign-Style Piece Promoting Kentucky Democrat’s Senate Run

The Washington Post’s Philip Rucker must love his new position as the unofficial spokesman for Bill and Hillary Clinton. In a 30-paragraph front-page piece in Monday’s Post, Rucker declared Democrat Alison Lundergan Grimes a “Young Senate Candidate, A Campaign With Star Power.”

Read More At: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/jeffrey-meyer/2014/02/24/washpost-gushes-over-clintons-campaign-style-piece-promoting

NewsBusters has a whole page dedicated to this liberal journalist: http://www.newsbusters.org/journalists/philip-rucker

Washington Post, Bipartisan Report, wow, we are really going for conservative sources.

The 2012 elections brought in all kinds of tea party candidates. There is some sort of analogy.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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I do not know if Trump supporters here are "Zealots".   They may perhaps be,  like me,   terrified of that Nazi Witch getting her hands on the FBI and the US Army.   

I'll bet that even in todays snowflake voter filled world, the military and FBI aren't so pussified as to be terrified of a 70 year old woman that needs help standing up straight.

Offline endicom

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I've voted for the Republican Presidential nominee my entire adult life.  That's over forty years of loyalty; I do not need to prove my bona fides.   The problem with this year is that my party was the subject of a hostile takeover.   No,  I don't feel a smidgen of loyalty to your cult.  I will not be a good German, even as a "tool" to defeat Clinton.  TRUMP AND TRUMPISM IS WORSE.   

No, the RINO status quo is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Obama is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Hillary will be WORSER THAN WORSE.

Offline musiclady

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Her stock in trade.

She doesn't care.   


All indications are that you are in the majority of Trump voters.   

'ats a Rog.   

Actually, it's is because I DO care that I continue to debate these points.  I'm not "misstating" anyone's opinions, deliberately or not.

You have accused me here of fundamental dishonesty, and that makes you dishonest.

Different opinions are not lies.  Continuing to post in opposition to opinions I do not share is what political forums are all about.

And you, sir, are clueless, if you truly believe the crap you just posted about me.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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You are deliberately misstating my position.   I have clearly enunciated it many times,  and it is not right for you to continuously misrepresent my position which I have made absolutely clear. 

I most definitely did not "misstate" your opinion.  I don't read everything you post (not even close), nor do I memorize everyone's opinion, so it incumbent on you to make yourself clear when you are posting.
Quote

I oppose Hillary.   I do not "support"  Trump.    I recognize him as the tool which it is necessary to use in order to stop a dire threat from getting her hands on power.

Ah, but the classic line is that those of us who oppose Trump "support" Hillary....  I'm glad you recognize that to be false, and now I know that you also do not "support" a liberal.  You're just trying to convince us that we are ignorant if we don't agree with you.  Equally bad, but different.   



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No they do not.   If they understood it,   they would be willing to crawl barefoot over broken glass in an effort to make sure that horrible Nazi Witch never becomes a threat to our lives.   
 

Nazi or Fascist.  That is our "choice."  I'm crawling over broken glass to keep either corrupt leftist from the WH.  I am not at all ignorant of who Hillary is, so I do not support her.  It should make you take notice that many of the very, very, very educated people on the Clintons here on this board will not vote for her buddy and fellow leftist, Donald Trump.

Quote
There is no polite way to put this.   You don't know what you are talking about.   Hillary is pure evil.   She's not a little tainted,   she is a monster.   She will  get people killed.   She will enact a Nazi-like agenda of oppression and prosecutions against the decent  people in our society.   


She will force the Homosexual agenda on Churches,  and she will bring the power of the Federal Government to bear on conservative groups and individuals.   SHE HAS ALREADY TRIED TO DO THIS MULTIPLE TIMES IN HER LIFE!     

There is no polite way to put this.  You are arrogant and believe your opinion is the only valid one.  While I would respect your choice to vote for Trump if it were reluctant and circumspect as many others have displayed, your castigation and condescension toward those of us who cannot do it by moral principle, is disgusting.  To vote for Trump is ALSO to vote for EVIL.


Quote

I do not know if Trump supporters here are "Zealots".   They may perhaps be,  like me,   terrified of that Nazi Witch getting her hands on the FBI and the US Army.   

I am pretty zealous about that being a very very bad thing.   As I keep pointing out,   Trump doesn't have a past which demonstrates he hates us and will persecute us.   Hillary *HAS*  exactly that sort of past.

There are people here who are in love with Donald Trump.  There are people who don't care that he's corrupt, who don't care that he has no values, that he's a sexual predator, who don't care that he's a Progressive, supporting every negative thing that Hillary supports.

That is zealotry, and that is dangerous.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Jazzhead

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No, the RINO status quo is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Obama is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Hillary will be WORSER THAN WORSE.

Your candor is appreciated,  I suppose.   The Trumpsters' goal has been to destroy the Republican party.   (It can't be to defeat Hillary Clinton; if that was the case, you wouldn't have gotten a hard one for the one candidate who poll after poll said could be defeated by Clinton.  Congrats, you've gotten your wish.)

And now you want me to exhibit "loyalty" to you and your fool?   Well, I'm not your cuckold;  heck,  I and folks like me are your worst enemy.   Conservatism is for us an exercise in political principle in the service of, yes, virtue.  To the Trumpsters, it's just another variety of political whoredom.   I'm voting to defeat Trump in order to save the good name of conservatism.   That's why Trump is worse than Hillary - he sees no difference between us and the Dems' brand of amorality.     
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 05:01:11 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline r9etb

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"Everything Trump touches dies,” said Republican consultant Rick Wilson, who is advising independent candidate Evan McMullin.

The GOP has been dying for a long time now.  Trump is just a symptom.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I've voted for the Republican Presidential nominee my entire adult life.  That's over forty years of loyalty; I do not need to prove my bona fides.   



You are not speaking to my point.   Presumably in all those forty years,  you agreed with the choice of the party, and therefore it was not a test of your commitment to the concept of a democratic process.   


It is when the choice goes against you that is a test of your commitment to this idea. 







The problem with this year is that my party was the subject of a hostile takeover. 


No,  your party has a large plurality of people who were tired of losing because our side always plays "nice"  with the Democrats.   They wanted a Brawler and so they supported one.  Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit points out "We tried "nice"  with Romney,  and that didn't work. "    So now we're not trying "nice"  anymore. "   


 





No,  I don't feel a smidgen of loyalty to your cult.



Stop using words like "cult."   It is not a cult,  nor does it even approximately resemble one,  and no,  i'm not a Trump fan.     What seems more like a cult is this group which feels the need to keep playing the Pharisee.   


The piety overload grew tiresome a long time ago.   






  I will not be a good German, even as a "tool" to defeat Clinton.  TRUMP AND TRUMPISM IS WORSE.   



You are being a good German.   Hitler won power because most people voted third party.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I'll bet that even in todays snowflake voter filled world, the military and FBI aren't so pussified as to be terrified of a 70 year old woman that needs help standing up straight.



Apparently they are terrified enough not to indict her.    They talk of "revolt"  in the ranks,   yet still we hear of no agents resigning in disgust.   


I guess bills must be paid.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline INVAR

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3 months after the election trump's morals that he exhibited in not only 2005 but through his entire lifetime including the past 12 months would indeed be utterly relevant. His only concern is and has always been for himself. Add to that the complete lack of intellectual abilities and no desire to bother himself with the complexities that come with the issues facing our country topped off with absolutely no moral compass and serious psychological problems including narcissism, issues with being a sexual predatory and his view that as president he would govern with presidential edicts as our king and then I would argue that yes he would do much more long-term harm to the country than anyone else. The damage he would do to our alliances around the world would be long term. Nor should the dangers of a man with his temperament as CIC be treated lightly.

I have never bought into the Supreme Court appointments argument because trump has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that his word is not to be believed and there is no doubt in my mind that he could care less about Christian values. He cares about what will get him elected.

Well said and excellently articulated.  You expressed the views of a lot of us.

Hillary as president is not something I desire and is also something I fear.

I don't fear Hillary.  Fearing such people simply gives them power over you.

If she intends to act like a dictatorial despot - then I say - bring it on and let's get this over with.  They can do whatever they want to do in terms of the courts and edicts from the Throne - I have no intention of complying with any of them, because to do so would be to subjugate myself to a beast, and this beast has already shown itself to have no legal or moral authority as far as Constitutional Originalists are concerned.  All the beast has is guns their agents will put to our heads. 

And if that is the case, what difference does it make if it's Russians, Chinese or ISIS with guns to your head?  You gonna comply with tyranny simply because it's domestic and not foreign?

A huge number of people in the country see Hillary as true evil and criminal corruption and uniting against her will be far easier against any attempt she makes to subjugate what is left of our liberties.  Everyone on this board would stand together to resist her and her beast of a regime (I would hope).

Trump however … much different scenario.

Because of Trump, the Conservative movement is shattered and scattered.  It is no longer unified, even on basic principles.  It cannot stand together on even the smallest issues of morality where Trump is concerned.   Trump will ensure dictatorial despotism is erected and entrenched as a permanent fixture in this country, all to the applause of the very people who would probably take up arms against Hillary if she attempted to do what Trump will end up doing.  BOTH of these sickening individuals are about themselves and their station.  They don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves and how great they think they are.

I'd rather suffer Hillary than Trump.

Hillary is less dangerous, and has a larger force arrayed against her should she decide to make that last mistake that all despots end up making.

Trump and his militants have proven they are a greater threat to people like us than Hillary's commie-minions are, because they have come up from amongst us and blended in with us and stabbing us in the back was far easier to achieve under Trump than anything Hillary or Obama could have dreamed of doing on their own.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DiogenesLamp

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No, the RINO status quo is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Obama is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Hillary will be WORSER THAN WORSE.


Some people apparently have trouble understanding trends.    They can't grasp that the direction  is still trending "bad"  and it is accelerating exponentially. 

Hillary will be Obama on steroids,  but with more vengeance,  arrogance,  and condescension.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline musiclady

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No, the RINO status quo is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Obama is WORSE. The RINOs handing the country on a platter to Hillary will be WORSER THAN WORSE.

TRUMP is the quintessential "RINO."   There's nothing Republican or Conservative about him.

He IS a Democrat.

Anyone who criticizes "RINO's" and supports Trump is double-minded.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Yes, because that assumption is—almost always—based on the premise that Hillary Clinton is a Democrat and Donald Trump is a Republican. In other words, partisanship.

I understand that after eight years of Obama we want so badly to get rid of the progressive Democratic Party machine, and how daunting it seems. But just because Donald Trump is a Republican, and managed to get a plurality of primary voters to vote for him, does not mean he is better. Self-interest without self-control is extremely dangerous, especially when combined with power.

goopo

Offline r9etb

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Hillary will be Obama on steroids,  but with more vengeance,  arrogance,  and condescension.

I'll have to disagree on that. 

While she's vengeful, arrogant, and condescending, she doesn't have the political capital to get away with much.  She's an unpleasant harridan, widely disliked and distrusted, and the only reason she's in a position to win is because her opponent is a truly awful person.  I can't see her getting the sort of protection that Obama gets.

Besides which, I think she's unhealthy and unlikely to make it through her term.  The next president (likely Clinton) is going to face a blizzard of crises of a type not seen since the late '30s, that are demonstrably of her own making -- and she'll be physically unable to manage it.