LIVE THREAD>>> Second Presidental Debate..9pm est

[Norm Lenhart]

The 'mess' isn't going to be fixed from the top down, but rather from the bottom up!

Thats exactly the case. So that means WE collectively have to reverse the self inflicted rectocranial inversion in our collective selves. That begins with the word 'no'...as in "No, I won't settle for another liberal POS in a general, a primary or for dog catcher. Once you do it a couple times, it's pretty easy. It's also empowering knowing you are on the right side of the fence and aligned with the principles of the founders. But until people restructure their priorities,we're headed straight to Eurosocialism unless we take the bullet train to Sharia first.

[Norm Lenhart]

@libertybele, if I knew what we could do, I would be doing it!  All of that "speak out, vote, contact your representative, etc." is just feel-good stuff.  It has minimal effect if that.

We arent going to fix this for us. It's going to take decades. All we can do is start the process and teach our kids right. It's going to be their and their childrens job to finish what we start. And it starts with simply saying 'no' to empowering liberalism in whatever way you can.

[Sanguine]

We arent going to fix this for us. It's going to take decades. All we can do is start the process and teach our kids right. It's going to be their and their childrens job to finish what we start. And it starts with simply saying 'no' to empowering liberalism in whatever way you can.

Norm, my kids aren't the problem.  Been there, done that.

[ABX]

I knew his leaning on his chair looked off.

Apparently he really liked his chair.  He grabbed it by the backrest

[libertybele]

@libertybele, if I knew what we could do, I would be doing it!  All of that "speak out, vote, contact your representative, etc." is just feel-good stuff.  It has minimal effect if that.

I hear ya, but I do know that numerous e-mails and phone calls to your representatives does work once in a great while ... showing up a their doorstep with a small group has some effect as well...but IMHO if the pressure is kept on them to do their jobs that they were elected to do and the threat of them losing their seats is continuous, it would have an impact.  Electing them and then only holding their feet to the fire around election time doesn't cut it.  They need to be babysat and reprimanded along the way
Unfortunately, most people aren't actively involved and some people don't even know who their representatives are.

[libertybele]

We arent going to fix this for us. It's going to take decades. All we can do is start the process and teach our kids right. It's going to be their and their childrens job to finish what we start. And it starts with simply saying 'no' to empowering liberalism in whatever way you can.

Sure it starts at home, but by the time many of our children go through the liberal school system (especially the colleges) many are fully indoctrinated into liberal thinking.  That is why so many have a problem with Common Core...it's more than standardized teaching and testing it's a means to further entrench the minds of students with the liberal progressive way of thinking.

[musiclady]

BTW thats why I've tried hard to put everything I've heard and seen from Trump's most aggressive supporters here and on TOS when weighing what to do in November. They constitute a good chunk of what makes Trump so repellent.

Totally agree.

Trump zealots have turned many away from their idol.  It is dangerous when a man has such an iron grip on people's minds and souls.

There is something very wrong with this whole situation.  Something we should be very concerned about.

[bigheadfred]

Totally agree.

Trump zealots have turned many away from their idol.  It is dangerous when a man has such an iron grip on people's minds and souls.

There is something very wrong with this whole situation.  Something we should be very concerned about.

A big part of being very concerned is exactly why Trump has such popularity. Many people voicing their fear that Trump is the only way to stem the madness.

[ABX]

oops, sorry y'all. I censored that image for you.

[Norm Lenhart]

Norm, my kids aren't the problem.  Been there, done that.

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying it's them that will have to take over with whatever we leave them to work with.

[bigheadfred]

oops, sorry y'all. I censored that image for you.

You overdoned the censoring as it is in the category of "Nothing to see here, folks."

[Norm Lenhart]

Sure it starts at home, but by the time many of our children go through the liberal school system (especially the colleges) many are fully indoctrinated into liberal thinking.  That is why so many have a problem with Common Core...it's more than standardized teaching and testing it's a means to further entrench the minds of students with the liberal progressive way of thinking.

Then our job as parents is to either deprogram them or turn them over to the state's indoctrination without a fight. I managed to get my kid through school and out the other side sane as a single parent. So I know it can be done if people give it any effort at all.

[montanajoe]

Maybe from where you sit the country will seem to survive, but my state has been transformed by progressivism for good. I won't bother going into why but it will NEVER be the same as it was as recently as 30 years ago.

So while the US will remain a geographical location on the globe its naive to believe our system cannot be destroyed. In fact we are very close to being irredeemably, irreversibly changed. Probably already are.

Trump might slow the trend, he might not. Hillary will not. Thats what it comes down to for me, sadly.

Fair enough.

I would say I would say this however. In every nation change ultimately comes from the bottom up, not from the top down. It seems to me Conservatives have been sold the liberal top down theory of government by the GOP for so long, and by voting for the lesser of two evils for so long, that many have come to accept that change depends on who is elected POTUS.

This nation is based on the concept of Government by the people, but for it to work the people can't become mere rubber stamps for a party or politician. I'm optimistic that all is not lost no matter where one may live in the country, if enough Conservatives take a stand and say enough, then we have a fighting chance but if we buy into flawed logic of the lesser of two evils then we probably don't...

[Sanguine]

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying it's them that will have to take over with whatever we leave them to work with.

Which brings us full circle back to the "what can I do" question.

[Norm Lenhart]

Which brings us full circle back to the "what can I do" question.

Something seems to have gotten lost in translation here. It's very simple. We stop empowering our problems. Stop giving power to liberals. Stop giving them money. Stop simply giving in and accepting lesser evil wherever it pops up. Stop being buddy buddy with people that believe that lesser evil is the path to success and shut them out of your life. Teach your kids history. Teach them why good is better than 'lesser evil' so they don't grow up looking and acting like the special snowflakes here and on FR.

I don't know if you are looking for magic fairy dust or not but it's gonna take a bit of effort and if people cant do the above, they should just accept liberal rule, grease up and bend over. It took 60 years to get here. It will take double that to extract ourselves (grandkids) and thats just the reality America brought on itself.

[Free Vulcan]

Which brings us full circle back to the "what can I do" question.

Sadly, I think this cake is baked. The Federal level is done and can't be changed. All IMO we can do is get our states ready for when the FedGov runs out of money.

[Sanguine]

Something seems to have gotten lost in translation here. It's very simple. We stop empowering our problems. Stop giving power to liberals. Stop giving them money. Stop simply giving in and accepting lesser evil wherever it pops up. Stop being buddy buddy with people that believe that lesser evil is the path to success and shut them out of your life. Teach your kids history. Teach them why good is better than 'lesser evil' so they don't grow up looking and acting like the special snowflakes here and on FR.

I don't know if you are looking for magic fairy dust or not but it's gonna take a bit of effort and if people cant do the above, they should just accept liberal rule, grease up and bend over. It took 60 years to get here. It will take double that to extract ourselves (grandkids) and thats just the reality America brought on itself.

Norm, I'm sorry, but that comes off as happy horsesh**.   Not picking on you - this is something I've been wondering for a long time.  What can I do?

"Stop empowering our problems" for instance.  What does that mean?  I get up and go to work all week, I keep my place neat and tidy, I pay my bills, I don't spend more than I have, I pay all of my taxes, I raised my kids with a good foundation and the ability to reason, am working on my grandkids, vote, volunteer for campaigns of the few politicians I think are worth electing, give my representatives frequent feedback, express my opinions, challenge the challenged to think, and associate mostly with like-minded people.  To imply that there is something else I can be doing is not valid, and it does make me bristle a bit.  Unless I'm missing something?

[bigheadfred]

Norm, I'm sorry, but that comes off as happy horsesh**.   Not picking on you - this is something I've been wondering for a long time.  What can I do?

"Stop empowering our problems" for instance.  What does that mean?  I get up and go to work all week, I keep my place neat and tidy, I pay my bills, I don't spend more than I have, I pay all of my taxes, I raised my kids with a good foundation and the ability to reason, am working on my grandkids, vote, volunteer for campaigns of the few politicians I think are worth electing, give my representatives frequent feedback, express my opinions, challenge the challenged to think, and associate mostly with like-minded people.  To imply that there is something else I can be doing is not valid, and it does make me bristle a bit.  Unless I'm missing something?

Keep your powder dry. Or just make damn sure to get bottom bunk at the gulag. Lots easier to get to the bucket in the corner, in the middle of the dark night, to pee.

[skeeter]

Fair enough.

I would say I would say this however. In every nation change ultimately comes from the bottom up, not from the top down. It seems to me Conservatives have been sold the liberal top down theory of government by the GOP for so long, and by voting for the lesser of two evils for so long, that many have come to accept that change depends on who is elected POTUS.

This nation is based on the concept of Government by the people, but for it to work the people can't become mere rubber stamps for a party or politician. I'm optimistic that all is not lost no matter where one may live in the country, if enough Conservatives take a stand and say enough, then we have a fighting chance but if we buy into flawed logic of the lesser of two evils then we probably don't...

To tell the truth, assuming the same system continues unabated there is no hope no matter who wins. There's just too much inertia. IMO Article V convention - a return to federalism forced by the states - is the only answer now.

[Cyber Liberty]

To tell the truth, assuming the same system continues unabated there is no hope no matter who wins. There's just too much inertia. IMO Article V convention - a return to federalism forced by the states - is the only answer now.

The time for an Article V must be ripe.  Do it before people are sufficiently burned out on socialism, the leftists will run away with the convention (and state ratifications), and we'll be stuck with an even worse system.

[bigheadfred]

The time for an Article V must be ripe.  Do it before people are sufficiently burned out on socialism, the leftists will run away with the convention (and state ratifications), and we'll be stuck with an even worse system.

 If hillary wins the time is ripe.  It will be the last chance.

[Cyber Liberty]

If hillary wins the time is ripe.  It will be the last chance.

I agree.

[libertybele]

I agree.

Actually the time for an Article V Convention is now.

[Cyber Liberty]

Actually the time for an Article V Convention is now.

I don't trust "leadership" (You know, those guys who just ran to the high weeds over something their Trump said 11 years ago) to put the right people in charge of it.  We'd want people like Ted Cruz or Mike Lee, and we'd get a basket of Lyndsey Grahams.

[bigheadfred]

Actually the time for an Article V Convention is now.

That is why I posted the thread a few days back.