#NeverTrump #NeverHillary #NeverMind: A Convention of States Is the Anwer

[libertybele]

I listened to a portion of Beck's interview of Meckler; the delegates actually met and I found it to be very encouraging. Beck is correct...this is our only hope!

#NeverTrump #NeverHillary #NeverMind: A Convention of States Is the Answer

The American Constitution is the longest running constitution in history of the world for a reason: It was brilliantly written. Yet we’re seeing its light flicker out due to power-hungry political elites who no longer follow the will of the people. This is the real reason the Second Amendment was put into the Constitution — to stop a tyrannical government. Hopefully, we never get to that point because our Founders placed emergency stops along the way. One of them, is the Convention of States, outlined in Article V of the U.S. Constitution.


FOR AUDIO AND TRANSCRIPT:


Source: http://www.glennbeck.com/2016/09/28/nevertrump-never-hillary-nevermind-a-convention-of-states-is-the-answer/?utm_source=glennbeck&utm_medium=contentcopy_link

[INVAR]

I'm all for an Article V Convention of states to suggest new Amendments - HOWEVER,

That will not stop the course we are on.  They ignore almost wholesale the Amendments we currently have that are supposed to restrain them.  New ones will not make any more difference to the lawless.

Civility in administering a rule of law will not restrain a lawless beast that feeds a ravenous dependency of cronyists.  The lawless will not abide more law being attempted to restrain them.

Not without the threat and use of force.  That is the ONLY THING tyrants understand.

That said - an Article V convention is the last resort for attempting to reign in an unConstitutional out-of-control federal behemoth, and most importantly -  will be the justification for what I think will be inevitable.

Tyrants in power, NEVER relinquish their power via civil means.

NEVER.

It requires force to do so.

Better have this in the back of your minds when pushing the Convention of States:  It's along road, and the efforts to sabotage, infiltrate and take-over the effort will be ever-present.  The people need to see that all efforts to attempt to redress our grievances with a beast have failed and there will be but one course left if we wish to die free men.

Article V gives us the justification to do what will be necessary, and perhaps be a blueprint for rebuilding from the ashes of the consequences that are sure to come from what has already been sown by the culture and leaders of this country.

New Amendments will not deter the lawless, they will continue to circumvent or ignore them.

Place not your hope in new Amendments to accomplish what force will have to do.  Understand you are achieving moral and natural legal justification for what will be necessary.

Provided there is enough people left in the nation willing to unify around a core set of principles that a majority have rejected.

[Doug Loss]

I've advocated for an Article V convention for a long time.  I don't agree with INVAR that such a convention is guaranteed to fail, but even if it does it's worth trying.  If you believe in the Constitution, this is the correct way of addressing the problem of a feral national government.

Convention of States

[INVAR]

I've advocated for an Article V convention for a long time.  I don't agree with INVAR that such a convention is guaranteed to fail, but even if it does it's worth trying.  If you believe in the Constitution, this is the correct way of addressing the problem of a feral national government.

Depends on how you want to define 'fail' Doug. 

If you think our current lawless government is suddenly going to abide new amendments that miraculously make it through the ratification process and any court challenges,  that restrain their current power, wealth and influence - you do not understand human nature at all.

It's worth doing for the sole sake of ensuring the justification of what will be necessary to end this statist tyranny, and provide a blueprint for what might be able to come later and after.

In that regard, Article V cannot fail.  But if you think Article V is going to stop Crony Statism - you are sorely mistaken.

An immoral, corrupted and lawless institution is not ever going to just comply with new laws anymore than you can cooperate with cancer and bring health and healing to the body without removing it first.

But as a public example that we the people tried everything we could to return the out-of-control federal beast back within the bounds and confines of the Constitution via civil means - Article V is necessary.

Because when it fails to restrain a tyrannical oligarchy that has replaced the Constitution with Statism, we will have the natural law justification to do what we need to do.

[Doug Loss]

Depends on how you want to define 'fail' Doug. 

If you think our current lawless government is suddenly going to abide new amendments that miraculously make it through the ratification process and any court challenges,  that restrain their current power, wealth and influence - you do not understand human nature at all.

It's worth doing for the sole sake of ensuring the justification of what will be necessary to end this statist tyranny, and provide a blueprint for what might be able to come later and after.

In that regard, Article V cannot fail.  But if you think Article V is going to stop Crony Statism - you are sorely mistaken.

An immoral, corrupted and lawless institution is not ever going to just comply with new laws anymore than you can cooperate with cancer and bring health and healing to the body without removing it first.

But as a public example that we the people tried everything we could to return the out-of-control federal beast back within the bounds and confines of the Constitution via civil means - Article V is necessary.

Because when it fails to restrain a tyrannical oligarchy that has replaced the Constitution with Statism, we will have the natural law justification to do what we need to do.

I agree with all that except the assumption that the effort will automatically fail.  Yes, it might not be able to restrain the feral government.  But that is by no means guaranteed, as it has never been attempted before.  Let's try it and give it our best effort, and see what results.

[rodamala]

I'm all for an Article V Convention of states to suggest new Amendments - HOWEVER,

That will not stop the course we are on.

Ignorant voters voting for unearned, undeserved entitlements from the Santa Claus Party of their choosing?  I want out.

The republic is absolutely doomed, and I am at the point where I just may throw my Pennsylvania swing vote towards to Clinton and bring the pain to all these braindead serfs while I go Galt and take care of myself because nobody else will.

[INVAR]

I agree with all that except the assumption that the effort will automatically fail.  Yes, it might not be able to restrain the feral government.  But that is by no means guaranteed, as it has never been attempted before.  Let's try it and give it our best effort, and see what results.

Doug, if they DO NOT FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION NOW and circumvent or ignore it, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY WILL FOLLOW IT LATER without circumvention?

Look at what has happened to every attempt to restrain the feds via the courts or the congress passing legislation!  It is ignored or struck down, or surrendered.  The Constitution as it exists now does not permit how large and oppressive the federal beast has become.  Yet here we are!

PRECEDENT has replaced the rule of law to the dictates of the executive, the compliance of Congress and the litigation of an activist judiciary all supporting the lawless replacement of Constitutional law.

The Lawless do not suddenly decide to become lawful without the threat and use of force.  Fact of life, history and human nature.

None of that is even taking into account all the sabotage and efforts to render any results irrelevant, null and void before they get to the state legislatures or the people for a vote.

If Americans going into an Article V Convention are not resolute in their understanding that this is the last ditch effort before hostilities, and that the threat and use of force will be necessary to implement new restraints on the federal beast - they will be wasting their time.  We are already a post-Constitutional mobocracy led by a quasi-dictatorship created by Congress and the courts.

You are dealing with wholly corrupted institutions inhabited by denizens of ambitious, ruthless, wicked and fleecing oligarchs.  They will no more respect new laws that restrain them than they do the current ones they have ignored and replaced with their own.

Assuming Article V in itself is going to save us is as foolish as assuming voting in an election will stop where they have taken us.

It is a last ditch effort, a justification for what must be done and a blueprint for our posterity from our ashes.  That is how serious it is.

Or we all die slaves and worse.

[Doug Loss]

Doug, if they DO NOT FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION NOW and circumvent or ignore it, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY WILL FOLLOW IT LATER without circumvention?

Look at what has happened to every attempt to restrain the feds via the courts or the congress passing legislation!  It is ignored or struck down, or surrendered.  The Constitution as it exists now does not permit how large and oppressive the federal beast has become.  Yet here we are!

PRECEDENT has replaced the rule of law to the dictates of the executive, the compliance of Congress and the litigation of an activist judiciary all supporting the lawless replacement of Constitutional law.

The Lawless do not suddenly decide to become lawful without the threat and use of force.  Fact of life, history and human nature.

None of that is even taking into account all the sabotage and efforts to render any results irrelevant, null and void before they get to the state legislatures or the people for a vote.

If Americans going into an Article V Convention are not resolute in their understanding that this is the last ditch effort before hostilities, and that the threat and use of force will be necessary to implement new restraints on the federal beast - they will be wasting their time.  We are already a post-Constitutional mobocracy led by a quasi-dictatorship created by Congress and the courts.

You are dealing with wholly corrupted institutions inhabited by denizens of ambitious, ruthless, wicked and fleecing oligarchs.  They will no more respect new laws that restrain them than they do the current ones they have ignored and replaced with their own.

Assuming Article V in itself is going to save us is as foolish as assuming voting in an election will stop where they have taken us.

It is a last ditch effort, a justification for what must be done and a blueprint for our posterity from our ashes.  That is how serious it is.

Or we all die slaves and worse.

From the Convention of States response to just this question:

7. If we aren’t following the Constitution now, would it be logical to assume that once we pass amendments to the Constitution, then the new amendments and the Constitution will be followed?

We agree completely with the sentiment that, on the whole, our country is not following the original meaning of the Constitution. However, there are certain subjects where the Constitution has been interpreted accurately in light of original intent. For example, the Second Amendment has been on good footing lately. The Full Faith and Credit Clause is functioning well. Term limits on the President are being obeyed.

The core answer to this question relates back to the answer to the first question. Our government is operating in substantial compliance with the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. Thus, the government has a plausible claim that it is currently obeying the Constitution.

Conservatives generally believe that the Supreme Court was wrong in saying that Obamacare was constitutionally authorized by the General Welfare Clause, but a Supreme Court majority held it to be so. This decision was horrible if we use originalism as our standard, but was only a slight extension of past Supreme Court precedent. Thus, it is not outlandish for the government to claim that Obamacare is indeed constitutional under the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court.

So, if we are going to really fix the problems with our government, we must restrain all branches of federal power. In fact, the most important checks of all may well be those related to constraints on judicial power.

With properly written amendments, we can move the country to the point where our government would be in substantial compliance with the Constitution as written rather than as interpreted by the Supreme Court. This can be done by proper limitations on the power of the federal judiciary as well as a new methodology of appointing justices. Moreover, replacing broadly worded phrases like “the General Welfare Clause” with precise language that puts clear and proper limits on such powers will make a difference.

But let’s suppose that even with new safeguards, the left succeeds in overriding these new amendments with new federal usurpations. It will be a pyric victory for them if they thwart the intent of newly adopted amendments. The political coalition necessary to win ratification in 38 States is more than big enough to completely throw Washington, DC office holders out on their ear. No politician could then legitimately claim that they were following the true meaning of the Constitution. The public would know better. And the public would throw the rascals out.

[INVAR]

That response presupposes the rule of law still functions.

If you believe that to be the case, then there is no need for Article V to begin with.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I'm all for an Article V Convention of states to suggest new Amendments - HOWEVER,

That will not stop the course we are on.  They ignore almost wholesale the Amendments we currently have that are supposed to restrain them.  New ones will not make any more difference to the lawless.

Civility in administering a rule of law will not restrain a lawless beast that feeds a ravenous dependency of cronyists.  The lawless will not abide more law being attempted to restrain them.



Look at the absolute disregard for the Constitution which has led us to this pass.

In order to even Argue anything on Constitutional Grounds you need the resources of an entire State behind you to take it to the Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_avoidance

Legal Redress of Constitutional violations has become virtually exclusive to State AGs and Governors.

We open the Article V door and every gimme gimme gimme agenda in America will be shoving their way in through it.

Clinton vs Trump?

We do not currently have the political wisdom in this country to improve upon the Constitution.

We exist at the sufferance of our crony crapitalist masters only so long as we stay beneath their radars, IE: How can they paint a dollar sign/target on us?

We live in a country where the FBI is actually Afraid of the Clinton Crime Family.

Suppose we do go Article V.

What are we going to do to keep the agendas who can't see beyond more freebies out of it?

Stand at the door with arms, ready to shoot?

As for Beck, he's a voice on my radio, nothing more.

[Doug Loss]

Well, anything that comes out of an Article V convention won't automatically become part of the Constitution.  It will have to be ratified by at least 38 states.  That right there is a pretty significant brake on any "runaway" modifications to the Constitution that don't have pretty widespread support.  But I will say what I've always said, if you don't try an Article V convention, what's your alternative?  There are only two: accept that we're done for as a free country, or go for your guns.  Me, I'd like to at least try the convention route before going for the guns (I'll never accept the other option).