Author Topic: Mike Pence's bizarro world  (Read 1765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Mike Pence's bizarro world
« on: October 05, 2016, 01:09:01 pm »
http://theweek.com/articles/653062/mike-pences-bizarro-world

Mike Pence's bizarro world
 
Michael Brendan Dougherty
 
October 5, 2016



Republican vice presidential nominee Mike Pence flashed real skills as a debater on Tuesday night. Unlike his running mate, he was armed with specific facts and practiced attack lines about the Democratic Party in general, and Hillary Clinton in particular. Pence was measured, calm, and unflappable. He often looked and sounded much better than Democrat Tim Kaine.

But there was a problem. Mike Pence, perhaps for his own sanity, is pretending that his running mate is a generic Republican rather than Donald Trump.

Over and over again, Kaine quoted Trump's more outlandish statements about Mexicans, Russian President Vladimir Putin, or nuclear proliferation. Sometimes they weren't even outlandish, but just cut against Republican Party orthodoxy. And Pence just shook his head derisively, as if Kaine had made it all up.

Pence seemed to know that it would be a losing strategy to explain or defend the scores of zany, offensive, or discomfiting things Trump has said. So he just pretended to be Lindsey Graham's veep candidate instead.

Months ago, Trump gave a foreign policy speech in which he praised the values of an "America First” foreign policy. Citing the disasters in Iraq, Egypt, and Libya, Trump criticized the Bush Doctrine itself. "It all began with a dangerous idea that we could make Western democracies out of countries that had no experience or interests in becoming a Western democracy," he said.
 
Mike Pence ignored this. Instead, he went with what had become the normal Republican attack on Democratic foreign policy over the last five decades: that the Democrats are too weak. ISIS and other calamities in the Middle East were caused by a lack of American action, Pence implied. Or by the Democrat president withdrawing troops on the schedule set by a Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq.

Pence laughed and shrugged when Kaine pointed out that Trump said NATO is obsolete. Pence then launched into a long discourse about Russian perfidy. He said that the solution to Russian expansionism in its near-abroad was sterner American leadership, and he even started talking about a military buildup. You'd have no clue that a few months ago, Trump had dismissed pessimists about America's relations with Russia by saying, "Common sense says this cycle, this horrible cycle of hostility must end and ideally will end soon… Some say the Russians won't be reasonable. I intend to find out."

It's normal for members of a political party to project onto their party leader their own beliefs. Millions of Republicans are going to pull the lever for Trump this year because they believe a man who spent years defending even late-term abortions and most gun restrictions will faithfully defend pro-life causes and the Second Amendment. But it is not normal to watch a candidate's running mate go through this exercise publicly.

It's as if Pence was the designated survivor of the Republican primary, a man held away from the carnage Trump has inflicted on the Republican Party, its conventions, orthodoxies, and pieties. Party figures like Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani embrace Trump as he is. Others, like Paul Ryan, try to demand more, and get nothing in return. Ted Cruz tried to shiv Trump at the convention, then feebly extracted a meaningless promise from him before endorsing him in September. Every strategy of blocking Trump, co-opting Trump, or parlaying with him as failed.

But in this debate, Pence did something that no one has tried before. He simply refused to acknowledge that there was any problem at all. You've heard lots of crazy things about Trump. But I'm hear to do a job, and frankly, acknowledging the reality of his situation or ours can only get in my way. Pence made it seem as if Trump's own words, when spoken by Tim Kaine, somehow discredited Tim Kaine. Mike Pence was a walking, talking memory hole.

As a debate strategy it was somewhat canny and inventively dishonest. But it also had the surreal feel of street theater and performance art. That's where this campaign is at now. Mike Pence is square-jawed, focused, and looks like a casting agent's idea of a Republican leader. And last night he stood before the world in one of the most avant garde performances in political history.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 01:21:04 pm »
By comparison to Kaine Pence looked much better, but he clearly just ignored the factual case Kaine made about Trump's lunatic prior statements.  The undeniable reality is that the Democrats' most effective weapon in this campaign is Trump himself, and Pence had no choice other than to ignore much of Trump's public record.

Pence played the hand he was dealt, and he played it well.  It remains to be seen whether his career will be helped or hurt by his agreement to be dealt into the game to begin with.
James 1:20

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 01:25:20 pm »
Did Michael Brendan Dougherty characterize Hillary's debate performance as 'inventively dishonest'?

If not, then he lacks the credibility to report on this election.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 01:30:06 pm »
By comparison to Kaine Pence looked much better, but he clearly just ignored the factual case Kaine made about Trump's lunatic prior statements.  The undeniable reality is that the Democrats' most effective weapon in this campaign is Trump himself, and Pence had no choice other than to ignore much of Trump's public record.

Pence played the hand he was dealt, and he played it well.  It remains to be seen whether his career will be helped or hurt by his agreement to be dealt into the game to begin with.

I agree.   Pence did about as well as he could with the material he had to work with.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2016, 01:32:47 pm »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2016, 01:36:23 pm »
Pence's NATO response was fine, it is journalists that try to slant the words.

Pence, biggest pro-lifer in the campaign, not like the baby killing candidates,  Johnson and Clinton.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 01:37:52 pm »
This will be news out of the debate:

mike murphy ‏@murphymike  1h1 hour ago
Sour grumbles seeping out of Trump tower re: Pence's lack of Trump defense. Instead of new coach Pence could become Debater non-grata
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 01:52:05 pm »
Is it too late to switch the ticket around?  I can deal with a Vice President Trump, safely tucked away in Blair House, or Trump Tower, and only allowed out when we need some comedic relief.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 01:56:04 pm »
This will be news out of the debate:

mike murphy ‏@murphymike  1h1 hour ago
Sour grumbles seeping out of Trump tower re: Pence's lack of Trump defense. Instead of new coach Pence could become Debater non-grata

I didn't watch the debate....but it sounds to me like Pence was overwhelmed by the massive amount of "Trumpspeak" evidence provided by Kaine.  And who wouldn't be?  Trump's mouth has been his own worst enemy.  To expect Pence to effectively do damage control at this point is absurd and the equivalent of plugging a dam with a wad of bubble gum.  Which is exactly why Trump will expect it.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,610
  • Gender: Female
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2016, 03:27:38 pm »
Is it too late to switch the ticket around?  I can deal with a Vice President Trump, safely tucked away in Blair House, or Trump Tower, and only allowed out when we need some comedic relief.

I hear you on this one; I keep hoping that for some reason, Trump will step down or something.  I didn't actually watch the debate, but I watched the clips after the debate and Pence is more presidential, knowledgeable, articulate and above else he acts like a gentleman rather than a 5th grade bully.  I would vote for him in a heartbeat.  I remain #NeverTrump.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,923
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2016, 03:34:55 pm »
I didn't watch the debate....but it sounds to me like Pence was overwhelmed by the massive amount of "Trumpspeak" evidence provided by Kaine.  And who wouldn't be?  Trump's mouth has been his own worst enemy.  To expect Pence to effectively do damage control at this point is absurd and the equivalent of plugging a dam with a wad of bubble gum.  Which is exactly why Trump will expect it.

This is the area were Pence would stumble. He is a rock in a hard place on this. I don't expect him to throw Trump under the bus but denying Trump has said the things he said was Pence's weakness
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,610
  • Gender: Female
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2016, 03:41:44 pm »
This is the area were Pence would stumble. He is a rock in a hard place on this. I don't expect him to throw Trump under the bus but denying Trump has said the things he said was Pence's weakness

Definitely between a rock and a hard place.  I don't see it as Pence's weakness but rather a drastic difference in personality than Trump's.  At least the moderator didn't ask him if he thought Trump was fit to be President.   :whistle:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,924
  • Gender: Male
  • Ride for the Brand - Joshua 24:15
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 04:01:06 pm »
Is it too late to switch the ticket around?  I can deal with a Vice President Trump, safely tucked away in Blair House, or Trump Tower, and only allowed out when we need some comedic relief.
Over Hillary I would go for that in a heart beat. The evil side of me wants to remind everyone we could be one greasy taco bowl heart beat away from Pence if Trump wins.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2016, 04:05:10 pm »
Over Hillary I would go for that in a heart beat. The evil side of me wants to remind everyone we could be one greasy taco bowl heart beat away from Pence if Trump wins.

The problem with that is.....it's simply not going to be enough ....to ensure a win for Pence.  The same thing happened in 2008 with Palin.  She had millions of fans that voted for her in spite of McCain.   They still lost.   And this year will be a repeat of that same equation for failure (garbage in, garbage out).
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,958
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2016, 04:43:23 pm »
By comparison to Kaine Pence looked much better, but he clearly just ignored the factual case Kaine made about Trump's lunatic prior statements.  The undeniable reality is that the Democrats' most effective weapon in this campaign is Trump himself, and Pence had no choice other than to ignore much of Trump's public record.

Pence played the hand he was dealt, and he played it well.  It remains to be seen whether his career will be helped or hurt by his agreement to be dealt into the game to begin with.
"The undeniable reality is that the Democrats' most effective weapon in this campaign is Trump himself, and Pence had no choice other than to ignore much of Trump's public record"

YES!!!

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,958
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2016, 04:45:40 pm »
Is it too late to switch the ticket around?  I can deal with a Vice President Trump, safely tucked away in Blair House, or Trump Tower, and only allowed out when we need some comedic relief.
The highly ironic (and amusing) fact is that Pence and everybody advising Trump is much more qualified than His Orangeness.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2016, 04:50:17 pm »
This is the area were Pence would stumble. He is a rock in a hard place on this. I don't expect him to throw Trump under the bus but denying Trump has said the things he said was Pence's weakness

True, but simply ignoring Trumps idiotic statements and going for the policy issues is neither denying nor defendreceived by what Trump said and could present a way for Pence to proceed.

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,958
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2016, 04:52:26 pm »
Over Hillary I would go for that in a heart beat. The evil side of me wants to remind everyone we could be one greasy taco bowl heart beat away from Pence if Trump wins.
You know, maybe it's evil, but I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Trump is 70 and doesn't exactly lead a real healthy lifestyle other than no alcohol or drugs. He also has a past of possible criminal behavior or at least associations with known criminals. There's a chance he could at least be impeached for his stupid actions when prez. Hey, I'm looking for one, good reason to vote for Trump-Pence. :pondering:

Offline dfwgator

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,490
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2016, 04:52:45 pm »
I agree.   Pence did about as well as he could with the material he had to work with.
And with each VP a heartbeat away from the Presidency,  which one would you rather have.  And with Hillary's health issues, that's a very relevant question.

Offline dfwgator

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,490
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 04:54:16 pm »
I hear you on this one; I keep hoping that for some reason, Trump will step down or something.  I didn't actually watch the debate, but I watched the clips after the debate and Pence is more presidential, knowledgeable, articulate and above else he acts like a gentleman rather than a 5th grade bully.  I would vote for him in a heartbeat.  I remain #NeverTrump.
Even if Trump wins,  I think he's really only interested in serving one term,  of course he won't tell you that. 

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2016, 05:05:39 pm »
Did Michael Brendan Dougherty characterize Hillary's debate performance as 'inventively dishonest'?

If not, then he lacks the credibility to report on this election.

I found the article most credible and interesting.  It was about Pence not Hillary.

 Pence played the only card he had and apparently played it to everyone's satisfaction, except possibly Trump.  All these compliments on Pence's performance have to be eating away at the Donald's thin skin.  Too many people wishing Pence was at the top of the ticket.  Way too many.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2016, 05:17:27 pm »
Pence's NATO response was fine, it is journalists that try to slant the words.

Pence, biggest pro-lifer in the campaign, not like the baby killing candidates,  Johnson and Clinton.

Funny he didn't mention anything about that in the debate ???
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 05:58:31 pm »
And with each VP a heartbeat away from the Presidency,  which one would you rather have.  And with Hillary's health issues, that's a very relevant question.

Of course I'd rather have Pence as President.  Like libertybelle said, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

But he's not running for President, Trump is.  There's simply no good choice for me this year.   I'm voting for Pat Toomey (now leading in PA by eight points according to the latest Quinnipiac poll!!!!).   That's what I care about.  For the Presidency,  I refuse to choose between Too Corrupt and Too Crazy.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

geronl

  • Guest
Re: Mike Pence's bizarro world
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2016, 06:36:46 pm »
Did Michael Brendan Dougherty characterize Hillary's debate performance as 'inventively dishonest'?

If not, then he lacks the credibility to report on this election.

The report seems pretty accurate to me standing on its own. It does not require another article to your standards to make it correct.