Author Topic: “They agreed to support the nominee:” Now, GOP party chair is pressing Republicans to back Donald Trump  (Read 13208 times)

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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Sounds like something from the soundtrack of the movie Brazil.

The Ink Spots got a resurgence when they were used in the Fallout video game soundtracks

"It's all over but the crying" and a couple others were used as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15Co-VST_go

Although I like Megadeth's use of STWOF as an intro too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAvlB7eTXGA
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 03:52:55 pm by Norm Lenhart »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Because someone that thinks that carrying out that idiocy is a good idea, is as big a problem as Trump is for America.

Do you think about what you post? You want to seriously elect a hard liberal....

I don't think Trump really has many (or perhaps any) hard political beliefs at all.  That's why he waffles.   I think he likes the idea of being President, but other than perhaps caring about some things like terrorism, I think he's pretty squishy.  It's not exactly like he's devoted his life to intense political thought, is it?  As you just said, he's an idiot.

But he's running against someone who isn't an idiot.  She's a hardline, fascistic progressive who knows exactly what she wants, and will have the power structure to do implement it.

Given a choice between the idiot and the intelligent, progressive fascist building upon 8 straight years of leftist rule, I'll take the former ten times out of ten.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:21:13 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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I don't think Trump really has many (or perhaps any) hard political beliefs at all.  That's why he waffles.   I think he likes the idea of being President, but other than perhaps caring about some things like terrorism, I think he's pretty squishy.  It's not exactly like he's devoted his life to intense political thought, is it?  As you just said, he's an idiot.

But he's running against someone who isn't an idiot.  She's a hardline, fascistic progressive who knows exactly what she wants, and will have the power structure to do implement it.

Given a choice between the idiot and the intelligent, progressive fascist building upon 8 straight years of leftist rule, I'll take the former ten times out of ten.

But you have another choice and you refuse to exercise it. Thats fine. You are fully within your rights to try electing any liberal you like. However oonce you start advocating others do the same, you arent any different from anyone else who does likewise. Like Hillary. She ALSO advocates people elect liberals.

Ultimately you are trying to elect a lifetime liberal. It doesn't matter a bit who that liberal is or what other liberal is running on another ticket. You will get one brand of liberalism or another. Both brands are completely anti-American. Both present a serious danger to Constitutional government. There's zero point arguing against those facts because we have multiple examples of both Trump and Hillary backing completely unAmerican policies. Touchback Amnesty. Open borders. Gun control. 1A abridgement. Hate crime laws that place homosexuality and transexuals above people of faith.

If you campaign for it/them, you are equally complicit in it. And since you have a choice to vote for other people, then if you DO vote for a Hillary or a Trump, then clearly your actions show you want what they offer. No excuses are acceptable when your vote, your most powerful and important action as an American, appears alongside the box that empowers someone working against this country.


Offline Jazzhead

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Yes, the Mad-Hatter-Trump-Haters continue to operate, behave, as if we are still in the middle of primaries. But, as I look at the scoreboard, it's the bottom of the ninth. Seventh inning stretch was a long time ago and we, America, need to win this.

Sorry, but there's no "win" possible.   Clinton will be a walking disaster, and so will Trump.   And Trump's potentially a hell of a lot more dangerous because of his inability to listen to advice or accept criticism,  coupled with his narcissistic impulsiveness.

Best thing we can do is try to save conservatism as a viable alternative in American political life.   I think that can be done, but only if Trumpism is repudiated.

   
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Offline XenaLee

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Mark my words. Someone will do a Trump pumpkin, someone will smash it and the alt righters will flood the net screaming about violence and hate crimes.

Hmmm.....smashing the Trumpkin in effigy.  Good therapy.  Yep.  I can see that happening...a lot this month.  (off to the store for the biggest pumpkin I can find)...

 
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Learn from your mistake. Support a conservative next time. Until then, enjoy what you helped bring down on America.

Try again.

I supported Rubio as the most conservative candidate I thought could win the general election.  When he faltered, I supported Cruz.  I was booted off FR because I wouldn't commit to supporting Trump after Cruz was out, and because I pointed out mistakes Trump was making.  I am no more responsible than are you for Trump being the nominee.  Perhaps less.

I didn't want Trump to be the nominee any more than you did.  But the battle for the 2016 GOP nomination ended, and either Trump or Hillary is going to be President.  So, like Cruz, I decided to do what I can to prevent Hillary from becoming President.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:28:51 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Try again.

I supported Rubio as the most conservative candidate I thought could win the general election.  When he faltered, I supported Cruz.  I was booted off FR because I wouldn't commit to supporting Trump after Cruz was out, and because I pointed out mistakes Trump was making.  I am no more responsible than are you for Trump being the nominee.  Perhaps less.

I didn't want Trump to be the nominee any more than you did.  But the battle for the 2016 GOP nomination ended, and either Trump or Hillary is going to be President.  So, like Cruz, I decided to do what I can to prevent Hillary from becoming President.

I don't need to try again. you are backing a liberal. On Nov 8, you will vote for a liberal. It does not matter a tinkers dam if you dug up Reagan and cloned him a year ago. What you are doing -now- is damaging the future of conservatism in America and America itself by electing, intentionally, a mentally unstable liberal.

You COULD vote for someone else that is not a liberal but you refuse to. Trump will lose and still you refuse to plant the seeds for 2020 by empowering a third party today. So clearly you WANT a liberal. Clearly you WANT the damage that Trump will do to the presidency and this country. If you didn't, you would not give him your vote.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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You COULD vote for someone else that is not a liberal but you refuse to. Trump will lose and still you refuse to plant the seeds for 2020 by empowering a third party today. So clearly you WANT a liberal. Clearly you WANT the damage that Trump will do to the presidency and this country. If you didn't, you would not give him your vote.

Sure I do.  Because it is impossible than anyone can disagree with your factual assessment, or see the prospects for a successful third party differently than you do.  Instead, disagreement with @Norm Lenhart means that your motives and thoughts must be bad, and you must be a closet liberal bent on destroying the country.

Oh yeah, that sounds like a winner.  I'm sure you'll get lots of support for your third party with that kind of attitude.  I mean, that's assuming that you're really interesting in a successful third party rather than moral self-admiration and virtue signaling.


Offline Norm Lenhart

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Sure I do.  Because it is impossible than anyone can disagree with your factual assessment, or see the prospects for a successful third party differently than you do.  Instead, disagreement with @Norm Lenhart means that your motives and thoughts must be bad, and you must be a closet liberal bent on destroying the country.

Oh yeah, that sounds like a winner.  I'm sure you'll get lots of support for your third party with that kind of attitude.  I mean, that's assuming that you're really interesting in a successful third party rather than moral self-admiration and virtue signaling.

If you can factually disprove one word of what I posted, please do. Because using leftist language is not gonna win you the argument with anyone but other Trump supporters.

So by all means. FACTUALLY and with EVIDENCE show where I was wrong in my statements. Not what YOU WANT me to be wrong about. Prove anything I actually WAS wrong about.

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I don't think Trump really has many (or perhaps any) hard political beliefs at all.

Yes, he does. He's a liberal. He supports "stimulus" (Obama's wasn't nearly big enough). corporate bailouts, Kelo, affirmative action, planned parenthood (he's paid for plenty of abortions), trannies in the girls room, gay rights all the way etc etc. He thinks healthcare should be paid for by the government.

His political donation history is not a fluke. He only donated to Republicans who are liberals or facing conservatives in primaries.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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If you can factually disprove one word of what I posted, please do.

That's utter nonsense.  You are inferring evil motive because someone disagrees with your position.  That excludes the possibility that they are simply wrong on the facts, and are making an honest, if misguided, error.   Therefore, it is up to you to prove that it is impossible for anyone to be making an honest mistake of fact.  Good luck with that.
 
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So by all means. FACTUALLY and with EVIDENCE show where I was wrong in my statements.

On top of that, your statements weren't even facts -- they were opinions, or at best, inferences you drew from facts.  For example:

Quote
What you are doing -now- is damaging the future of conservatism in America and America itself by electing, intentionally, a mentally unstable liberal.

I also would be keeping from office a mentally stable, intelligent, aggressive liberal who would have the full backing of a powerful political party, as well as control of the courts.   That is a "fact" as well.  You cannot fairly evaluate the consequences of my vote without considering all of the consequences.  In light of that, whether or not my vote "damages the future of conservatism" is opinion, not fact.

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Trump will lose and still you refuse to plant the seeds for 2020 by empowering a third party today.

First, "Trump will lose" is a prediction, not a fact, and therefore cannot be either proven or disproven until election day.

Second, your statement contains an unproven, unargued assumption/inference -- that there is a reasonable possibility for a third party to win in 2020.  That can be neither proven nor disproven since it is a prediction of a future event.  Personally, I think there is a better chance of Zombie Reagan rising from the dead than for a third party to be successful.  I'd give two reasons:

1) There has never been a successful third party Presidential movement since the widespread adoption of the primary system.  The reasons for that are obvious -- any candidate who is within the mainstream of politics can compete for, and win, the nomination of one of the two major parties.  Any candidate whose views are so extreme that they could not successfully compete in such a primary would, by definition, not have enough support to win the general election.  To the extent candidates at any level have had success, it is because such campaigns were based around a single, charismatic candidate who chose not to run for the nomination of either party.  Ross Perot and Jesse Ventura did not achieve the degree of success they did because they were members of the Reform Party -- the Reform Party achieved the success it did because of them.  Therefore, the goal shouldn't be to find another party, but simply to find better candidates.

2) The likelihood of illegals being granted legalized status (approved by the Supreme Court through executive action rather than by Congress), and the rapid extension of the franchise to those millions of progressive-leaning voters, will make future electoral success by any non-progressive candidate virtually impossible.   The packing of the electorate likely will be accompanied by a reversal of []iCitizens United[/I], and a resulting clampdown on independent expenditures by conservatives trying to be heard.  That may well be accompanied by a revival of the Fairness Doctrine that would further limit the dissemination of views anathema to the progressive government.  In such an environment, not only would the GOP be at a major disadvantage, but third parties likely would be squeezed out completely.

In other words, even my Zombified Reagan won't have a chance in 2020 if Hillary gets in.

So, for me, when I combine 1) and 2), I conclude that advocacy of a third party must be part of a left-wing masterplan to further fracture any possible opposition to the progressive powers.  A splintering of any significant number of conservatives would be the final nail in the coffin to any opposition to the progressive establishment.  Which, I suppose, makes you the liberal.

But I don't believe you actually are a liberal.  I just think your predictions are wrong, for the reasons stated.



« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 07:19:15 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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That's utter nonsense. 

I stopped right there. When you show that demonstrated fact is utter nonsense, ping me. Because regardless of any excuses you concoct, people voting for liberals empower liberals. Liberals are responsible for the damage that has been done to America. If you support a liberal, YOU are a liberal. YOU caused that damage.

Excuses and creative writing exercizes don't alter those facts.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I stopped right there. When you show that demonstrated fact....

When you learn that opinions and predictions as to future events are not actually facts, you can ping me right back.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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When you learn that opinions and predictions as to future events are not actually facts, you can ping me right back.

Ping!
Trump's actions are in the past. Thats what a 'liberal record' is. It's how we know he's a liberal.

Again: Regardless of any excuses you concoct, people voting for liberals empower liberals. Liberals are responsible for the damage that has been done to America. If you support a liberal, YOU are a liberal. YOU caused that damage.

Excuses and creative writing exercizes don't alter those facts.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Ping!
Trump's actions are in the past. .

But you're "facts" included that "he will lose" in November, and that a third party has a decent chance at being successful in 2020 if I vote for it today.  None of those "facts" are "proven" by Trump's past.  They're just you're own personal, unproven predictions.

Offline INVAR

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You are what you do.

You do what you are.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Norm Lenhart

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But you're "facts" included that "he will lose" in November, and that a third party has a decent chance at being successful in 2020 if I vote for it today.  None of those "facts" are "proven" by Trump's past.  They're just you're own personal, unproven predictions.

Right now the math shows that he can't win. Thats math.

These are facts:

Donald just pissed off most women in America and the polls reflect the hit he took to an already skittish base. Add to that the conservative base he said he didn't need, both of which combined result in even less total support at present than Mitt Romney pulled. With that said...

Regardless of any excuses you concoct, people voting for liberals empower liberals. Liberals are responsible for the damage that has been done to America. If you support a liberal, YOU are a liberal. YOU caused that damage.

Excuses and creative writing exercizes don't alter those facts. If you can prove any one of those facts are not true and thus not facts, please do rather than diverting away from them. Yet again.

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I didn't want Trump to be the nominee any more than you did.  But the battle for the 2016 GOP nomination ended, and either Trump or Hillary is going to be President.  So, like Cruz, I decided to do what I can to prevent Hillary from becoming President.

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