Author Topic: CMPD said Keith Lamont Scott had a gun. Was that reason enough to order him to drop it?  (Read 6805 times)

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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Watch the goddamned video.  These two were running around like there was an ISIS terrorist in that truck.

Hopped up cops who handcuffed a dying man and came to his aid five minutes after they mortally wounded him.  Aholes.

Yeah not like there was a psychotic with a gun who was inexplicably ignoring their orders to drop their weapon or anything....

Offline XenaLee

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Watch the goddamned video.  These two were running around like there was an ISIS terrorist in that truck.

Hopped up cops who handcuffed a dying man and came to his aid five minutes after they mortally wounded him.  Aholes.

The cops were correct to be in fear of their lives....considering the criminal record already racked up by the Scott POS.  You really need to get a grip on reality.

https://ihavethetruth.com/2016/09/24/video-on-tap-keith-scotts-past-criminal-record/
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline sinkspur

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The cops were correct to be in fear of their lives....considering the criminal record already racked up by the Scott POS.  You really need to get a grip on reality.

https://ihavethetruth.com/2016/09/24/video-on-tap-keith-scotts-past-criminal-record/

They didn't know about his past.  They never inquired. 

So, if a guy has a record, he deserves to get shot.   What's the matter with you people?

There are too many cops shooting too many people.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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This is a Tazer.  The Charlotte PD has tazers.  Why was this not used first.  Shooting should be a last resort in EVERY instance.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:24:44 am by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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They didn't know about his past.  They never inquired. 

So, if a guy has a record, he deserves to get shot.   What's the matter with you people?

We know what's the matter with you, you're a keyboard warrior, a tough guy who tazes people with actual handguns...

Offline sinkspur

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We know what's the matter with you, you're a keyboard warrior, a tough guy who tazes people with actual handguns...

You know that lots of PDs are hiring high school grads now, don't you? 

Talk to Chief Brown from Dallas.  Shootings by police have gone down drastically since he instituted community policing.  Nobody's been shot by a cop in a city of over 2 million this year.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Talk to Chief Brown from Dallas.  Shootings by police have gone down drastically since he instituted community policing.  Nobody's been shot by a cop in a city of over 2 million this year.

Ummmm...  great. And how many cops were killed this summer?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:48:46 am by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline roamer_1

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Use a Tazer.  That's why the effing taxpayers had to ante up for the damned things.   

You're gonna use a tazer on a guy holding a gun? That's crazy.

And I have live in open carry my whole life. If I have any beef with the cops, I immediately inform them that I am strapped, and ask them how they want to deal with it. Even if it's just a traffic ticket.

Usually I am asked to disarm and leave my junk in the truck (including knives etc) while we're doing business, but I have had some ask me to assume the position and they disarm me themselves. I don't mind. No one is asking them to place themselves at risk unnecessarily.

AND, in the course of my brilliantly misspent yoot, I have had occasion to be belligerent with the local deputies... It doesn't take much experience to know that when the billy club/asp comes out, they're ready to play... When the tazer comes out you'd best be paying attention... But when the guns clear leather, they're all business.

You've got to be an idiot to be non-compliant.

Offline XenaLee

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They didn't know about his past.  They never inquired. 

So, if a guy has a record, he deserves to get shot.   What's the matter with you people?

There are too many cops shooting too many people.

They didn't have to know about his record.  The perp's actions clued them in that he was already a dangerous felon.  They did what they deemed necessary at the time.  For you to sit here, sanctimoniously second-guessing their actions from the safety of your armchair, is pretty damned lame.  Especially when at no time is YOUR life ever on the line.  Pathetic.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline sinkspur

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They didn't have to know about his record.  The perp's actions clued them in that he was already a dangerous felon.  They did what they deemed necessary at the time.  For you to sit here, sanctimoniously second-guessing their actions from the safety of your armchair, is pretty damned lame.  Especially when at no time is YOUR life ever on the line.  Pathetic.

Yes I second guess their actions.  They escalated this situation unnecessarily and it resulted in a needless death.  I'm entitled to that opinion.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline roamer_1

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This is a Tazer.  The Charlotte PD has tazers.  Why was this not used first.  Shooting should be a last resort in EVERY instance.

You do know that tazing a guy holding a gun is a risky business, right? When he goes to ride the lightning his trigger finger may well convulse... Do you really think they should take that chance?

Offline XenaLee

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Yes I second guess their actions.  They escalated this situation unnecessarily and it resulted in a needless death.  I'm entitled to that opinion.

Yes.  And you are also entitled to be wrong in that opinion.  And you are.  (that's mine)
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You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline XenaLee

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You do know that tazing a guy holding a gun is a risky business, right? When he goes to ride the lightning his trigger finger may well convulse... Do you really think they should take that chance?

Tazing someone holding a gun is the exact wrong thing to do.  For someone to even suggest it as a viable option is sheer idiocy and shows that persons' lack of understanding in police actions and training issues.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline sinkspur

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You do know that tazing a guy holding a gun is a risky business, right? When he goes to ride the lightning his trigger finger may well convulse... Do you really think they should take that chance?

This situation should never have gotten to the point where these hot dog cops had to pull guns on this guy.  Nothing will happen to these cops.  That's how these things usually go.

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Tazing someone holding a gun is the exact wrong thing to do.  For someone to even suggest it as a viable option is sheer idiocy and shows that persons' lack of understanding in police actions and training issues.

You read other posts well.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline XenaLee

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This situation should never have gotten to the point where these hot dog cops had to pull guns on this guy.  Nothing will happen to these cops.  That's how these things usually go.

Gee, sinks.  I'm starting to get the impression that you hate cops.  I'm betting that....to hear you tell it, no situation should warrant cops drawing their guns on a suspect.  Right?
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline sinkspur

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Gee, sinks.  I'm starting to get the impression that you hate cops.  I'm betting that....to hear you tell it, no situation should warrant cops drawing their guns on a suspect.  Right?

I have two nephews who are cops and they think the "new breed" of cops are trigger happy.   The oldest has been a cop for 18 years and has never come close to shooting anybody.  Rarely draws his gun.    The other hasn't shot anybody either.

So I have a different perspective on effective policing than you do.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline roamer_1

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This situation should never have gotten to the point where these hot dog cops had to pull guns on this guy.  Nothing will happen to these cops.  That's how these things usually go.

If the guy is packing, and they know he's packing, they will escalate to obtain the upper hand. You might have a point if he had but  a knife, but even then, use of deadly force is still legal and called for... Depending on the circumstance, the officer might feel comfortable going up against a knife with a tazer, but I surely wouldn't second guess him if he  went right to a pistol.

Cops have ALWAYS been jumpy around open carry - They're at substantial risk. Prodding them, or being non-compliant is going to get you dead. And this perp has been around the block a time or two - He oughta known better.

Offline roamer_1

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I have two nephews who are cops and they think the "new breed" of cops are trigger happy.   The oldest has been a cop for 18 years and has never come close to shooting anybody.  Rarely draws his gun.    The other hasn't shot anybody either.

So I have a different perspective on effective policing than you do.

Nah... I've been around duffer deputies around here...  nearly off the street old, even twenty years ago... It ain't changed much here. They will always use power above that which you offer as resistance. And they always have. They always will. Nothing else makes sense.

Offline bolobaby

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I saw the cell phone video. They ordered the guy around 10 times to drop his gun. When cops have a gun trained on you, why wouldn't you drop it? Suicide by cop if ask me. Also his wife/girlfriend was saying "don't do it" to the guy over and over again.

Doesn't seem like anything worth rioting over to me.

The author makes a valid point.

Think about it this way: if the cops know you have legal weapons in your house, does that give them the right to SWAT your home in the middle of the night? No, of course not. They can order me to open the door, throw my weapons out all they want, they are not legally justified in doing so with a search warrant and probably cause.

Now - realistically - if they don't have a warrant and I refuse to comply, I am likely to get shot. So, should I automatically comply with an unlawful order from a police officer simply on the grounds to avoid a shooting? Perhaps, but perhaps officers should be held accountable for the consequences of unlawful orders where the victim does not comply, too.

So, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

For the record: I live in NC and have open-carried. I have seen a dude shopping at the Wal*Mart open-carrying. I wasn't alarmed. Put the wrong cop in that situation and you've got a casualty, though.

Hoplophobes abound.
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Offline bolobaby

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I have two nephews who are cops and they think the "new breed" of cops are trigger happy.   The oldest has been a cop for 18 years and has never come close to shooting anybody.  Rarely draws his gun.    The other hasn't shot anybody either.

So I have a different perspective on effective policing than you do.

@sinkspur

Reminds me of this: http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/how-to-serve-a-warrant-1972-versus-today-by-lt-harry-thomas/
How to lose credibility while posting:
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2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline JustPassinThru

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I have two nephews who are cops and they think the "new breed" of cops are trigger happy.   The oldest has been a cop for 18 years and has never come close to shooting anybody.  Rarely draws his gun.    The other hasn't shot anybody either.

So I have a different perspective on effective policing than you do.

The new breed of criminal is trigger-happy, too.  And there are a lot more of them.

Officer Friendly is outmoded.  No longer are the police respected in their station.  When there is no general respect for law enforcement, all that is left is force.

And just as the Constitution is not a suicide pact, neither are cops required to surrender their lives to "prove" that the perp is really a perp.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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The Constitution isn't a suicide pact, and neither is the law.

If I'm a cop and my life is threatened you better damn well believe I will protect it even if it means spending the rest of my life in jail.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:10:49 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline sinkspur

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The new breed of criminal is trigger-happy, too.  And there are a lot more of them.

Officer Friendly is outmoded.  No longer are the police respected in their station.  When there is no general respect for law enforcement, all that is left is force.

And just as the Constitution is not a suicide pact, neither are cops required to surrender their lives to "prove" that the perp is really a perp.

Cops no longer go out of their way to avoid killing.  They go for their guns at the slightest provocation.  And I mean SLIGHTEST. 

These two cops intentionally escalated a situation that they could have handled differently, had they involved cooler heads (supervisor). 

Was the shooting justified?  A grand jury will likely find such.

Was the situation handled correctly?  Hopefully a police review will find it not to be the case.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sneakypete

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CMPD said Keith Lamont Scott had a gun. Was that reason enough to order him to drop it?
......


@rangerrebew


Uhhhh,yeah. What kind of damnfool question is that? I am NOT a big fan of the police,but who the hell can blame anyone,INCLUDING the police,for ordering someone you suspect of committing a crime to drop their gun when they face you?

Survival 101.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 03:05:04 pm by sneakypete »
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