Cruz: I'm voting for Trump

[Smokin Joe]

Then this really has nothing to do with Trump at all.   You've rejected the entire GOP itself.  That's fine, but it also means there's no point in even voting down-ticket, or even participating in politics at all.  Because there is absolutely zero chance that a new conservative party could get anywhere before the left and Democrats have a permanent stranglehold on power.

Nothing in politics is permanent. Nice to know where you stand: for the demise of the Republic. Duly noted.

Lack of enough conservative votes in Congress to win a shutdown.  It would have been expending political capital while not accomplishing anything other than to give more seats to those on the left the next time around.

Note, that wasn't the lack of enough Republican votes. the GOP had a majority in both House and Senate. No, it was the interruption of cash flow to the corruptocracy in DC that precluded a shutdown. The rest was mostly theater. If the GOP had had the collective vertebrae to do it, they wouldn't be looking at maybe losing the Senate.

Any you still haven't pointed to the Trump/GOP equivalent to the violent leftist mobs in the streets, and DOJ complicit in covering for them.

There you go again. As I said, the idea is prevention. Trump hasn't had a DOJ to play with, and that is just the beginning of the power that would be there for a vindictive narcissist to aim at people who wouldn't 'make deals' with him. It is well enough documented that a significant number of those who do make 'deals' with him end up getting screwed. So again I ask are you sure you want to give him the chance to do more damage than he dreamed of as a mere fatcat, politician buying, real estate developer?

If we wait until there are roving troops in the streets exacting a violent toll, and Federal Agencies wreaking havoc upon those who won't kiss his ring, that mission of prevention will have failed. It will be too late to do anything but vote from the rooftops and behind solid objects. But with Delirious Donny's fingers on the football, it might not matter anyway.

[XenaLee]

So maybe we can promote mystery-ak to JimRob authority level and have her zot people?

That was sarcasm, right?  The last thing this forum needs is zotting people merely for their political opinions.

[Cyber Liberty]

That was sarcasm, right?  The last thing this forum needs is zotting people merely for their political opinions.

I certainly saw it as sarcasm....

[XenaLee]

I certainly saw it as sarcasm....

It's kind of hard to tell these days.   

[HoustonSam]

Funny how a person named after someone who didn't exist, who was a construct designed to deceive would keep harping at those who forsee a bad outcome.

I tend to see the worst in Trump myself, and his campaign's strong-man worship of personality and power at the expense of the scapegoat du jour has honestly reminded me also of the rise of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

But in fair defense of @Maj. Bill Martin, I think the Major has drawn very credible distinctions between the current situation in the US versus Weimar Germany, and between Hitler's pursuit of power and Trump's pursuit of hedonism.  The major has been very clear throughout his posts that he did not support Trump in the primaries and only plans to vote for him now because Hillary is worse.  Unlike those who continue to insult my intelligence in their insistence that Trump is some kind of omnicompetent visionary, the major is clear about Trump's many faults, he just doesn't reach the same conclusions about what those faults mean in this country's present context.

I agree with you @Smokin Joe that we might be experiencing the leading edge of a very bad change in American politics and values as the Republican Party now resorts to many of the same tactics that the Democrats have used for years.  I hope we can discuss those concerns without making enemies of people who see the current election from a very similar, but not identical, perspective.

Finding myself in agreement with much of what you both say Major and Smokin, I'll put on my best Rodney King hat and ask "Can't we all just get along?"

[corbe]

I tend to see the worst in Trump myself, and his campaign's strong-man worship of personality and power at the expense of the scapegoat du jour has honestly reminded me also of the rise of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

But in fair defense of @Maj. Bill Martin, I think the Major has drawn very credible distinctions between the current situation in the US versus Weimar Germany, and between Hitler's pursuit of power and Trump's pursuit of hedonism.  The major has been very clear throughout his posts that he did not support Trump in the primaries and only plans to vote for him now because Hillary is worse.  Unlike those who continue to insult my intelligence in their insistence that Trump is some kind of omnicompetent visionary, the major is clear about Trump's many faults, he just doesn't reach the same conclusions about what those faults mean in this country's present context.

I agree with you @Smokin Joe that we might be experiencing the leading edge of a very bad change in American politics and values as the Republican Party now resorts to many of the same tactics that the Democrats have used for years.  I hope we can discuss those concerns without making enemies of people who see the current election from a very similar, but not identical, perspective.

Finding myself in agreement with much of what you both say Major and Smokin, I'll put on my best Rodney King hat and ask "Can't we all just get along?".

 



 Couldn't agree MORE, General!!

[bigheadfred]

Finding myself in agreement with much of what you both say Major and Smokin, I'll put on my best Rodney King hat and ask "Can't we all just get along?"

heh heh heh

 I had a coworker telling me this morning I needed to mill and sand 3 trim sticks 1 1/4" wide to cover  1 3/4" gaps. He was even drawing me pictures. I finally told him to take his stupid BS somewhere else because I couldn't handle it at 6 a.m.  And then I got snarky with anyone in sight.  Someone else brought me a piece of bubble wrap and told me it would probably save my life (popping bubbles). I told him it would probably save his too. heh heh heh

[bigheadfred]

That was sarcasm, right?  The last thing this forum needs is zotting people merely for their political opinions.

Yeah huh

Have some patience so when the SHTF you can shoot them instead. 

Speaking of that all I am not going to care what the guys next to me political or religious views were prior to the SHTF. I  would be more interested in his view of the target(s) and if he could hit it. 

[GrouchoTex]

@HoustonSam

I am at a point I haven't found myself in, this late in the race, in any other presidential election.
Usually (if I may brag a bit) I am pretty straight-forward, look at all the facts, come to a logical conclusion, kind of guy.
I'm even a bit embarrassed that I haven't figured this one out yet.

The only thing I know for sure is that I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

I have the same 3 options that face us all:

(1) Vote Trump
(2) Vote third party
(3) Skip the presidential election, and only vote down ballot.

I have heard all the arguments, backwards and forwards, pro and con, on why I should or why I should not vote for Trump.
Many are good arguments.
I've made some myself, in both directions, sometimes, but admittedly, more on the against side.

Damnedest thing I've ever gone through during an election.

I have no idea what I will do, still, this late in the day.

[HoustonSam]

@HoustonSam
Damnedest thing I've ever gone through during an election.

I have no idea what I will do, still, this late in the day.

No shame in that @GrouchoTex, it's a tough deal this time.  I don't describe myself as "NeverTrump" simply because I know that never is an awfully long time, and I try to be open to the intellectually honest arguments some raise for a Trump vote (not the same as an argument for Trump).  But when I ask myself each day whether I would vote for Trump if the election were held today, every day my answer is "no."  Maybe tomorrow will be different, but at this stage I can't think of anything that would change my perspective.  Maybe some event or argument I haven't thought of, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Cyber Liberty]

@HoustonSam

I am at a point I haven't found myself in, this late in the race, in any other presidential election.
Usually (if I may brag a bit) I am pretty straight-forward, look at all the facts, come to a logical conclusion, kind of guy.
I'm even a bit embarrassed that I haven't figured this one out yet.

The only thing I know for sure is that I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

I have the same 3 options that face us all:

(1) Vote Trump
(2) Vote third party
(3) Skip the presidential election, and only vote down ballot.

I have heard all the arguments, backwards and forwards, pro and con, on why I should or why I should not vote for Trump.
Many are good arguments.
I've made some myself, in both directions, sometimes, but admittedly, more on the against side.

Damnedest thing I've ever gone through during an election.

I have no idea what I will do, still, this late in the day.

Join the club.  Sometimes I wish I could look at this in a more shallow way, then I could just say "Screw it, vote for Trump.  Anybody who doesn't support my decision is a Hillary supporter."  But management prefers we take a more nuanced stand than that.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Do you really want him to be able to launch strategic weapons?

No.  Don't want Hillary on the trigger either, so that is a wash.  And I think this "you don't want Trump's finger on the button" argument is ridiculous, because it's not Trump's actual finger on the button.  He can give the orders, but the military must execute it, and I think you are out of your mind if you think senior military officers would follow an order to execute an nuclear strike without an extraordinarily good reason.

When he has demonstrated he will attack without getting facts, lie about the facts, and redouble the attack--on the wrong person.
I have been all over the problems with Mr. Trump which indicate character flaws which would preclude any fitness for  the job of POTUS.

There is no question that Trump shoots off his mouth and says some incredibly stupid things.  On the other hand, there is no way you can acquire the fortune and success he has had if you truly are that erratic when it actually gets to sitting down and doing real business as opposed to shooting off your mouth.

Funny how a person named after someone who didn't exist, who was a construct designed to deceive would keep harping at those who forsee a bad outcome.

Oh, going after screennames now!  Wow, well, you kind of surprised me with that one, Joe.  Thought you were actually one of the more reasonable folks here even though we disagreed.  I'd make some comment about you must therefore be the real Joe Frazier if you place such an emphasis on the truthfulness behind screennames, but you know...it's not really worth it anymore.  That's as clear a sign as I'm going to get that you're not really interested in substance.

Adios, Joe. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@GrouchoTex , @HoustonSam

It's one of those years.  Each of those choices is morally defensible, so good luck.

[musiclady]

Join the club.  Sometimes I wish I could look at this in a more shallow way, then I could just say "Screw it, vote for Trump.  Anybody who doesn't support my decision is a Hillary supporter."  But management prefers we take a more nuanced stand than that.

You mean an honest stand ........ because I'm not supporting Hillary in the least by not supporting Trump.

I wouldn't vote for either of those two despicable creatures if my life depended on it.

I've never voted for an amoral leftist in my life and I'm not about to start now.

[GrouchoTex]

@GrouchoTex , @HoustonSam

It's one of those years.  Each of those choices is morally defensible, so good luck.

..and all 3 have consequences.

[INVAR]

Starting from there, he's not running for Emperor/Principate.  If he was elected President...

'Elected'??  I prefer the term 'seated'.  I no longer believe that our 'elections' are anything but manipulated shell games'.

If he was elected President, and walked into a wedding to rape both the bride and groom, I suspect he wouldn't be able to get away with it as easily as Caligula did. 

In this day and age of transgendered bathroom rights for perverts culture… are you kidding me?????

The guy gets a complete pass as it is over his documented boasts of bedding other men's wives and making reprehensible comments about how hot and sexy his own daughter is.

Even if Trump did 'rape' someone while in office, what part of 'what he does in his private life has no bearing on his ability to govern'??????  Remember that?  That was back in the 90's - BEFORE Christians were forced out of business because they refused to participate in promoting a homosexual wedding celebration to vast public applause - BEFORE the Kardashians and Jersey Shore.

Ruling Class Politicians get away with everything in this day and age - including treason and murder to the applause of their militant supporters.  Trump is already no different, evidenced by every excuse being offered for his ridiculous behavior and unconstitutional promises.

Trump is Bill Clinton without the ideology.  While reprehensible, that doesn't present nearly the threat to the nation that Mrs. Bill does.

Not in my estimation.

[aligncare]

Maj. Bill, so the lightbulb switches on? I'm surprised it took you so long. But, you are one of the thoughtful and sincere posters here at TBR. The others, are but #NeverTrumpLosersAndReprobates.

I wish you well, Major.

[Norm Lenhart]

Maj. Bill, so the lightbulb switches on? I'm surprised it took you so long. But, you are one of the thoughtful and sincere posters here at TBR. The others, are but #NeverTrumpLosersAndReprobates.

I wish you well, Major.

Coming from a guy that stupidly pulls race cards, that doesn't mean much.

[XenaLee]

Coming from a guy that stupidly pulls race cards, that doesn't mean much.

What else can you expect?  They're getting more desperate by the day....so the passive-aggressive, reach around insults against anti-Trump members will continue, if not escalate.  It's what they do and how they roll.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

..and all 3 have consequences.

The truth is those consequences aren't as easy to predict as some partisans on each side may claim.  If they were, this would be this easy.  If we all knew, and could prove factually that Trump will definitely be better than Hillary, it would be easy.  Same with the converse.  And third parties are a crapshoot as well.  That's why the dogmatists on either side kind of bug me a bit.  There are a lot of unknowns here, and too many of them for predictions to have a lot of certainty.  No shame in guessing wrong if that's how it turns out after the fact.

[INVAR]

He can give the orders, but the military must execute it, and I think you are out of your mind if you think senior military officers would follow an order to execute an nuclear strike without an extraordinarily good reason.

I think senior military officers have demonstrated they will follow any orders, even when those orders diminish and emasculate their own forces; allow ambassadors to die at the hands of Jihadists and wipe out morale while pushing perverted social experimentation, even in combat zones.  I think Obama purged the brass of most of those whom he felt would oppose his fundamental transformations.

How much more will they follow the orders of someone with a short temper who promises them glory under the auspices of 'making America great again'??

A culture, country and a military that is no longer governed by the morality we once had, while embracing ideas more akin to Empire than Republic, is a culture and country with a military that won't blink twice when a madman whose ego is bruised by an insult from a foreigner, would unload whatever they are told to unload.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

'Elected'??  I prefer the term 'seated'.  I no longer believe that our 'elections' are anything but manipulated shell games'.

If we're going to be honest, there's likely been vote fraud for a long time, at all levels.  We just try the best we can, because the alternatives to a representative democracy aren't good.  But I wish that problem would get fixed as well.

Not in my estimation.

Fair enough.  I don't think there is a whole lot clear in this election.  My point there was that while Trump is a moral cesspool, Bill's ideological views added additional impetus to take us down the wrong path, in addition to being a moral cesspool himself.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that casting a vote for a guy because he's "only" a moral cesspool is distasteful as hell.  I just personally see the alternative as worse.

[Norm Lenhart]

I think senior military officers have demonstrated they will follow any orders, even when those orders diminish and emasculate their own forces; allow ambassadors to die at the hands of Jihadists and wipe out morale while pushing perverted social experimentation, even in combat zones.  I think Obama purged the brass of most of those whom he felt would oppose his fundamental transformations.

Bush beat him to it thanks to liberals in congress making the rules. Remind me to tell you sometime about how my DAUGHTER got put on gate duty in IRAQ,in a combat zone, waving in Specops/Blackwater types with AQ jihadis strapped across the hoods of their Hummers like deer sometime.

Standing gate duty FORBIDDEN TO HAVE BULLETS IN HER GUN.

So yea. the brass is fully co opted by the left.

[aligncare]

The truth is those consequences aren't as easy to predict as some partisans on each side may claim.  If they were, this would be this easy.  If we all knew, and could prove factually that Trump will definitely be better than Hillary, it would be easy.  Same with the converse.  And third parties are a crapshoot as well.  That's why the dogmatists on either side kind of bug me a bit.  There are a lot of unknowns here, and too many of them for predictions to have a lot of certainty.  No shame in guessing wrong if that's how it turns out after the fact.

You're forgetting one indisputable fact about Donald Trump: he is a patriot who values America above globalization and multiculturalism - something that I used to believe was a republican value, out of place here at TBR.

[Norm Lenhart]

You're forgetting one indisputable fact about Donald Trump: he is a patriot who values America above globalization and multiculturalism - something that I used to believe was a republican value, out of place here at TBR.

No, he puts the gay agenda over freedom of religion, blatant lying over the truth, touchback amnesty over his ever shrinking wall and he has a long record of financially screwing the imported foreign labor he hires.