Author Topic: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump  (Read 133010 times)

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1225 on: October 05, 2016, 04:04:21 pm »
Try to cut A/C some slack.  He's been a poster in this forum for quite awhile and at one point in time he actually demonstrated some logic, made some very good points and had some decent posts.  'Trumpism' you know, does very strange things to people.

I'll say this for @aligncareHe's proving every day that TBR is nothing like the forum many of us came from.  No matter how much shuck and jive he puts out, management still lets him post.  Even Facebook knocks trolls off once in a while.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1226 on: October 05, 2016, 04:07:45 pm »
I'll say this for @aligncareHe's proving every day that TBR is nothing like the forum many of us came from.  No matter how much shuck and jive he puts out, management still lets him post.  Even Facebook knocks trolls off once in a while.


So maybe we can promote mystery-ak to JimRob authority level and have her zot people?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:18:08 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1227 on: October 05, 2016, 04:07:54 pm »
As a #NeverTrump, it's not that Trump is Hitler, it is the fact that he possesses many characteristics that Hitler did.  There is no denying that like Hitler, Trump is a narcissist.  There is no denying that like Hilter, Trump is a demagogue.  There is no denying that Hitler and Trump have demonstrated psychopathic and sociopath personalities. There have been numerous comparisons done and articles written with the latest from the Guardian entitled "The New Furor".

With all due respect, the people making those comparisons are either ignorant, or deliberately making a false comparison for political motives of their own.  Or at least, so blinded by their personal dislike for Trump that they're willing to overlook reality just to get in a cheap shot.  The truth is that even apart from the completely different circumstances in the two countries, Trump completely lacks Hitler's single-minded, life-long political visions and lust for power.

Have you actually read much about Hitler?  He was absolutely driven by extreme, highly-developed social/political beliefs that were the focus of almost his entire adult life.  From his late-20's on, he had a monomaniacal focus on achieving and exercising supreme political power for his own ends, and ruthlessly took every opportunity to advance that goal.  He was such a hard-line extremist, and so dedicated to the acquisition of power, that at the ripe old age of 34. he led an attempted coup.  When that failed, he wrote Mein Kampf.  At thirty-four.

In contrast to Hitler's lifelong quest for absolute power, and extremist political/social beliefs, Trump has focused his life entire life on getting rich, and marrying beautiful women.  He's a hedonist, not a power-obsessed political extremist.  Throughout his life, there hasn't been even a hint of a lust for political power, or some underlying set of rigid, fanatical political beliefs that would fuel such a lust.  He's basically a political dilettante, not a freak who has devoted his entire life to acquiring absolute political power.  He is the exact opposite of Hitler in that regard.

Additionally, some of you guys are simultaneously advancing two directly contradictory arguments about Trump, and apparently are blind to the contradiction.

On the one hand, he's a Hitlerian political fanatic, bent on using his Trumpist brownshits to turn this country into a fascist dictatorship to be run by him for the glorification of his own ego and beliefs.  He's a power-obsessed madman, and we're all doomed when he takes command!

But on the other hand, he really has no interest in actually winning the election at all, doesn't even care of if he wins, and is just in the race to help Hillary win.  That's the theory, right?  So, what kind of Hitler-wannabe doesn't even care about wielding power, and is just in a race for his own amusement, and to hand the election to someone else?


« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:13:28 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1228 on: October 05, 2016, 04:14:59 pm »
With all due respect, the people making those comparisons are either ignorant, or deliberately making a false comparison for political motives of their own. 

Or have just read a history book or 50, which is something you might consider before making such ridiculous statements again.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1229 on: October 05, 2016, 04:21:08 pm »
With all due respect, the people making those comparisons are either ignorant, or deliberately making a false comparison for political motives of their own.  Or at least, so blinded by their personal dislike for Trump that they're willing to overlook reality just to get in a cheap shot.  The truth is that even apart from the completely different circumstances in the two countries, Trump completely lacks Hitler's single-minded, life-long political visions and lust for power.

Have you actually read much about Hitler?  He was absolutely driven by extreme, highly-developed social/political beliefs that were the focus of almost his entire adult life.  From his late-20's on, he had a monomaniacal focus on achieving and exercising supreme political power for his own ends, and ruthlessly took every opportunity to advance that goal.  He was such a hard-line extremist, and so dedicated to the acquisition of power, that at the ripe old age of 34. he led an attempted coup.  When that failed, he wrote Mein Kampf.  At thirty-four.

In contrast to Hitler's lifelong quest for absolute power, and extremist political/social beliefs, Trump has focused his life entire life on getting rich, and marrying beautiful women.  He's a hedonist, not a power-obsessed political extremist.  Throughout his life, there hasn't been even a hint of a lust for political power, or some underlying set of rigid, fanatical political beliefs that would fuel such a lust.  He's basically a political dilettante, not a freak who has devoted his entire life to acquiring absolute political power.  He is the exact opposite of Hitler in that regard.

Additionally, some of you guys are simultaneously advancing two directly contradictory arguments about Trump, and apparently are blind to the contradiction.

On the one hand, he's a Hitlerian political fanatic, bent on using his Trumpist brownshits to turn this country into a fascist dictatorship to be run by him for the glorification of his own ego and beliefs.  He's a power-obsessed madman, and we're all doomed when he takes command!

But on the other hand, he really has no interest in actually winning the election at all, doesn't even care of if he wins, and is just in the race to help Hillary win.  That's the theory, right?  So, what kind of Hitler-wannabe doesn't even care about wielding power, and is just in a race for his own amusement, and to hand the election to someone else?

Personally, it is Trump's detachment from the issues and ideological ambivalence that (sadly) make him a more attractive candidate than Hillary. At least there is a chance he can be influenced or compelled on occasion to do the right thing.

It sucks to hang upon such a slender reed, but there is that hope where with Hillary Clinton absolutely none exists.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1230 on: October 05, 2016, 04:23:18 pm »
Personally, it is Trump's detachment from the issues and ideological ambivalence that (sadly) make him a more attractive candidate than Hillary. At least there is a chance he can be influenced or compelled on occasion to do the right thing.

Just made that exact point to @Norm Lenhart in another thread.  They can't, at least with any credibility, simultaneously paint Trump as an idiotic ideological dilettante, and as a committed, hard-core leftist.  Although depending on the thread, that's exactly what's happening.

It's certainly not a choice I'm happy making, but Trump, at the least, is going to have some conservative advisor, a good VP, and will be forced to lean GOP or risk losing his entire base of support.  Circumstances, not ideology, are likely to make him a significantly better option than Hillary.  I wish he was something much, much, better than that, but wishing isn't going to change the fact the one of those two will be the next President.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 04:24:58 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1231 on: October 05, 2016, 04:25:45 pm »
Or have just read a history book or 50, which is something you might consider before making such ridiculous statements again.

You didn't respond to a single substantive point I made, and instead just cited an introductory sentence as if I provided absolutely no support for it.

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1232 on: October 05, 2016, 04:38:33 pm »
You also need a willing military and no other strong institutions.  Nor is there any evidence that the "willing populace" actually exists.  Again, true fascists develop pseudo-military organizations that actively use violence to eliminate rivals.  They have organized street gangs, often uniformed, and sufficient goon lieutenants to serves as sub-commanders and willing leaders.
If you wait for the spiffy uniforms to come in, you waited too long. Besides, don't the red hats count for something? After all Trump is cheap when it comes to shelling out for that stuff.
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Trump has none of that.  There is zero evidence of actual street level gangs or violence on anything other than a negligible scale.  Rather than pointing to actual violence, or anything remotely resembling something like the Sturmabteilung, you're pointing to ridiculous threats made by keyboard commandos in their basements.   KellyAnne Conway is not Ernst Roehm.  Sean Hannity is not Joseph Goebbels.  Mike Pence is not Heinrich Himmler.
You missed the point. It isn't a question of going "Oh sh*t, we're being marched to the 40 & 8's on the way to the ovens." By then it would be too late, anyway.  The whole idea is to prevent any of that, to stop it before it gets rolling. encouraging punching protesters and paying for legal fees is far enough off the charts. Step outside normalcy bias and the perspective changes.
Start with "It can happen here, and then see what you see. Many of us have talked with people who were there for the last time this sort of thing happened. While the exesses are obvious in retrospect, they didn't just pop up overnight, they grew out of other things, and those trends, subtle at first can be the harbingers of worse to come. The objective is to see it before the situation develops to critical mass.
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If you really want to be honest about this, the only demonstrated potential for such a movement lies on the left.  There, we actually do have large street gangs using physical intimidation to suppress rivals.  There is BLM, and radical Latino gangs/movements on the West Coast.  There are SJW actually growing violent, shutting down attempts by conservatives to speak, and in many cases physically assaulting political opponents -- including Trump supporters -- with whom they disagree.  Do I need to post those videos?
No need, to post the videos. That isn't potential, by the way, they are doing it. But a second look shows they are doing it to their own neighborhoods, and there is a profit motive. The funny part is that while pointing to those groups who anger Trump followers, you ignore the possibility of those leftists (like the Communists those Nationalists were opposed to) getting outside of those neighborhoods and eliciting a backlash that would put countering violent groups in the streets to widespread acclaim.
Instead of an alternative, the Marxist groups would be the triggering factor.
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There is your real threat of fascism.  Not just threats, but actual violence to back up those threats.  Political opponents beaten up, law enforcement officers [/I]murdered.[/I]  And those groups have an actual ally running for office.  They'll have control of the Justice Department, which may well turn an institutional blind eye to acts of voter intimidation and violence by the left.  You'll have a leftist dominated federal court system that will likely give them comparatively free rein as long as they can make anything other than a laugh out loud argument.  All of this is real.
Right. Communists (Marxists) versus fascists (who believe in government control of privately owned industry, far closer to the GOP). Violence justifying a violent backlash. Sounding a little Wiemar yet?
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Why aren't you concerned and posting about that?  Objectively, there is your true, real threat of fascism, and it's not even that far away. 
No, it is a threat of communism, not fascism. Read my comment above how that could trigger the very backlash you are too busy saying doesn't exist. One riot in the wrong neighborhood, and it'll happen.
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It is an infinitely more credible and realistic threat than some clown making a stupid remark about dogs. 
I made no remark about dogs, but currently they are used to provide probable cause to pick through your stuff if you really don't want your vehicle searched because your tail light was out. The assertion only need be made that your property is the result of drug dealing and the police have it, you have to sue to get it back. Is that totalitarian enough for you? As for a real threat, not where I live.
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The leftist thugs are real, and active.
Yep. What amazes me is that you don't see both 'sides' have their thugs, neither will follow the Constitution, and both want totalitarian control.  Do you see a dictator as okay, so long as he is 'your' dictator?  TO me, that totalitarianism is a threat, either way.
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When someone asks how it was that we let actual fascists come to power, I guess you can at least say "well, it's better than having a guy who was in a porn video.
You really haven't been paying attention, have you? Instead, your emotional attachment to Trump is blinding you to what people are trying to say, either that or your fear of Hillary is. Hillary is an effing MARXIST, not a fascist. I don't want her, either, frankly. But you are so emotionally invested in defending Trump, and the people supporting him, that it is like he said, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and nobody would care. You refuse to see that there are some serious problems with him, too.
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@Smokin Joe , if you are truly concerned about fascism in this country, and aren't just using that as a cheap political argument against Trump, then you are currently aiming your fire in the wrong direction.
Nope, we're surrounded.

First, I think you need to get your 'isms' straight. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/fascism_and_communism-socialism.html Neither is a friend of a Constitutional Republic.

Unfortunately, the Republic is not represented by either major party this time around.

For those of us trying to spot trends before events happen to make them obvious, it is challenging, but small deviations from the desired course add up fast. If you choose to not see them, that is something you do at your peril. If you wait until folks in spiffy uniforms are shooting people in the streets, it's too late. The idea is to keep things from ever getting there (again) by spotting it before it happens.

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1233 on: October 05, 2016, 04:39:14 pm »
Either way, with Clinton or Trump we lose. Hope and pray that we keep the Senate.


And that right there is the ONLY reason why I'm planning to vote down ballot for the GOP against the rats.  If not for that, I would just abstain and essentially tell the GOP to go to Hell via my non-vote.  I don't know that it will help, at this point, for the GOP to retain the Senate....considering the betrayals that they have already dealt us.  But what the hell.
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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1234 on: October 05, 2016, 04:42:40 pm »
Try to cut A/C some slack.  He's been a poster in this forum for quite awhile and at one point in time he actually demonstrated some logic, made some very good points and had some decent posts.  'Trumpism' you know, does very strange things to people.
What he's experiencing here is "cognitive dissonance:" the idea that the truth about a New York City Republican much like himself is far more hideous than he's willing to accept. So he simply doesn't. People who tell the truth are "haters." Every evidence of wrongdoing is either evidence that Trump is the most brilliant man on the planet or a lie by a hater, and that people who really know Trump revere the man just as he does. He has no idea that he is being psychologically manipulated.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1235 on: October 05, 2016, 04:57:06 pm »
The federal government is lost unless we reset it with an Article V Convention of States.  I'm voting local races, not because they won't be overruled on everything by the courts.  But it will buy us time. 

My state sends Republicans to Washington 90% of the time.  They've failed us.

Nows the time, with so many states under republican governorship.

Why a return to federalism wouldn't appeal to any republican governor - or governor, for that matter, is beyond me.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1236 on: October 05, 2016, 05:02:23 pm »
You didn't respond to a single substantive point I made, and instead just cited an introductory sentence as if I provided absolutely no support for it.

You havent actually made a point. theres no reason to respond to completely fallacious 'reasoning' that every Trump backer reads from a script.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1237 on: October 05, 2016, 05:06:35 pm »
If you wait for the spiffy uniforms to come in, you waited too long. Besides, don't the red hats count for something? After all Trump is cheap when it comes to shelling out for that stuff. You missed the point. It isn't a question of going "Oh sh*t, we're being marched to the 40 & 8's on the way to the ovens." By then it would be too late, anyway.  The whole idea is to prevent any of that, to stop it before it gets rolling. encouraging punching protesters and paying for legal fees is far enough off the charts. Step outside normalcy bias and the perspective changes.

You're pointing to two isolated instances early in the campaign when his rallies were subject to deliberate disruption.  It was the wrong reaction, and it stopped.  There is none of that going on now, and more importantly, no effort to disrupt the political activities of his opponent, which is really a hallmark of fascism.  And while you chose to focus on the lack of uniforms, you didn't address the utter lack of street thugs period, uniformed or not.  To the extent such people exist, they are exclusively on the left, and yet you seemed remarkably unconcerned about them.  It is Trump's rallies that are being disrupted, and Trump's supporters that are being assaulted.  Isn't the danger from the left that much greater?

 
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Start with "It can happen here, and then see what you see.

What I see is that being far closer to happening from fascists on the left, than from Trump's supporters.  And if that is truly your major concern, then you should be pulling out all the stops to prevent those leftist goons from getting their woman into power.

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First, I think you need to get your 'isms' straight. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/fascism_and_communism-socialism.html Neither is a friend of a Constitutional Republic.

Very old saying that if fascism comes to the U.S. it will be from the left, not the right.  And frankly, what Hillary is pushing really is fascism more than socialism.  Or at best, a mix.  Either way, the authoritarian streak is being found among those on the left, right down to personal conduct, speech codes, safe spaces, government-mandated gender-pronouns, and all the rest of it.  With the street thugs and a compliant DOJ to back them up.

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Nope, we're surrounded.

So it is your belief that Trump and the GOP are equally as close to imposing authoritarianism and violent street justice as are Hillary and the Democrats?

« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:23:33 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline INVAR

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1238 on: October 05, 2016, 05:13:56 pm »
The whole idea is to prevent any of that, to stop it before it gets rolling. encouraging punching protesters and paying for legal fees is far enough off the charts. Step outside normalcy bias and the perspective changes.

Start with "It can happen here, and then see what you see. Many of us have talked with people who were there for the last time this sort of thing happened. While the exesses are obvious in retrospect, they didn't just pop up overnight, they grew out of other things, and those trends, subtle at first can be the harbingers of worse to come. The objective is to see it before the situation develops to critical mass.

Unfortunately, the Republic is not represented by either major party this time around.

For those of us trying to spot trends before events happen to make them obvious, it is challenging, but small deviations from the desired course add up fast. If you choose to not see them, that is something you do at your peril. If you wait until folks in spiffy uniforms are shooting people in the streets, it's too late. The idea is to keep things from ever getting there (again) by spotting it before it happens.

Well said Joe.  Well said.

But none so deaf as those who refuse to hear.

Instead some call us Hillary supporters and paranoid delusionals for daring to give the warnings.

Oh well.

Nothing new under the sun.
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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1239 on: October 05, 2016, 05:15:26 pm »

In contrast to Hitler's lifelong quest for absolute power, and extremist political/social beliefs, Trump has focused his life entire life on getting rich, and marrying beautiful women.  He's a hedonist, not a power-obsessed political extremist.  Throughout his life, there hasn't been even a hint of a lust for political power, or some underlying set of rigid, fanatical political beliefs that would fuel such a lust.  He's basically a political dilettante, not a freak who has devoted his entire life to acquiring absolute political power.  He is the exact opposite of Hitler in that regard.

Fine, Trump is Caligula.  Let's work from there.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1240 on: October 05, 2016, 05:17:19 pm »
You havent actually made a point. theres no reason to respond to completely fallacious 'reasoning' that every Trump backer reads from a script.

That's just blatantly dishonest, and beneath you.  And I can assure you, I'm not operating from a script from Trump or anyone else.

My argument was that those who are analogising Trump to Hitler because of supposed parallels are distorting the factual record.  In support of that argument, I made specific points about critical differences between the two of them that those comparisons deliberately omit.  Specifically, Hitler's well-documented obsession with acquiring political power, and a highly-developed, specific, and extreme social political agenda.  I mentioned his monomaniacal involvement in politics from his 20's, the Beer Hall Putsch, and Mein Kampf as evidence of his total commitment to a political life, and to acquiring political power to execute a very specific political vision.  Politics, and achieving ends through political means, was the sole focus of his being, and an essential core component of becoming what he became.

I then pointed out that Trump lacks all of that.  No early obsession with obtaining political power, no well-developed extremist political philosophy, no life-time devotion to obtaining political power to achieve twisted ends.   His goal in life has been to get rich, marry beautiful women, and get famous.  This election is basically a lark he's hopped on extremely late in life.  I also pointed out that he is utterly lacking in the kind of totally devoted, similarly extreme henchmen that Hitler had, and who are likewise necessary to carry out that vision.

This is only a message board, so I wasn't going to write a book.  But whether my point is ultimately correct or not, that argument was laid out and supported with some specific factual references.  So for you to say "you actually haven't made a point" is disingenuous at best.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:30:35 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1241 on: October 05, 2016, 05:20:46 pm »
Fine, Trump is Caligula.  Let's work from there.

Starting from there, he's not running for Emperor/Principate.  If he was elected President, and walked into a wedding to rape both the bride and groom, I suspect he wouldn't be able to get away with it as easily as Caligula did. 

Trump is Bill Clinton without the ideology.  While reprehensible, that doesn't present nearly the threat to the nation that Mrs. Bill does.

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1242 on: October 05, 2016, 05:26:44 pm »
Starting from there, he's not running for Emperor/Principate.  If he was elected President, and walked into a wedding to rape both the bride and groom, I suspect he wouldn't be able to get away with it as easily as Caligula did. 

Trump is Bill Clinton without the ideology.  While reprehensible, that doesn't present nearly the threat to the nation that Mrs. Bill does.

Really?   And I suppose that Bill Clinton's selling our long range missile technology to the ChiComs to enrich himself didn't pose any threat to the nation. 

And considering that...Bill Clinton's attention was 'mostly' focused on meow vs. that personal enrichment.  With Trump, his main focus is enriching Trump...not meow.  In my book of logic, that makes Trump MUCH more of a threat to the nation.
   
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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1243 on: October 05, 2016, 05:31:55 pm »
You're pointing to two isolated instances early in the campaign when his rallies were subject to deliberate disruption.  It was the wrong reaction, and it stopped.  There is none of that going on now, and more importantly, no effort to disrupt the political activities of his opponent, which is really a hallmark of fascism.  And while you chose to focus on the lack of uniforms, you didn't address the utter lack of street thugs period, uniformed or not.  To the extent such people exist, they are exclusively on the left, and yet you seemed remarkably unconcerned about them.  It is Trump's rallies that are being disrupted, and Trump's supporters that are being assaulted.  Isn't the danger from the left that much greater?

 
What I see is that being far closer to happening from fascists on the left, than from Trump's supporters.  And if that is truly your major concern, then you should be pulling out all the stops to prevent those leftist goons from getting their woman into power.

Very old saying that if fascism comes to the U.S. it will be from the left, not the right.  And frankly, what Hillary is pushing really is fascism more than socialism.  Or at best, a mix.  Either way, the authoritarian streak is being found among those on the left, right down to personal conduct, speech codes, safe spaces, government-mandated gender-pronouns, and all the rest of it.  With the street thugs and a compliant DOJ to back them up.
Left/Right/fascist/communist/ all seem to be pretty much muddled. National Socialism was indeed a leftist ideology, and not on the Right as the Marxists assert (except perhaps, from a Marxist viewpoint). But from where my little butt polishes the seat, the GOP is on the Left, too. That is how far BOTH the GOP and the Democrats have slid toward Statism, and they did it together, with the GOP's progress only hindered by staying less totalitarian then the Democrats, who have been getting more so. The GOP has been flying formation with them. I'm a Constitutionalist, Original Intent. I have believed as I do for decades, it was the Democrats, followed by the GOP that left the building.
Who passed the laws that said that the Government can seize your stuff? That they can conscript the food in your cupboards, the ammo in your gun cabinet, the vehicles in your garage/drive? Who signed the law that limited sales of new class III weapons to police and military? Who was president during the Ruby Ridge incident in Idaho? When the Waco (Mt. Carmel) raid and standoff were initiated? Who started the EPA? What one group hasn't been able to pass, the other has, often with the full support of the people who would have opposed it if the other group had proposed it. But ever, at least in my lifetime, advancing toward a more Statist, totalitarian government. Failure to recognize that will have it come about. Neither Party is your friend if you are a fan of a Constitutional Republic. If you like one of the Kabuke dancers better than the other one, that is up to you, but at least know the game for what it is. Otherwise, explain the failure of the GOP controlled Congress to shut down the Obama Agenda.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1244 on: October 05, 2016, 05:34:36 pm »
Who passed the laws that said that the Government can seize your stuff? That they can conscript the food in your cupboards, the ammo in your gun cabinet, the vehicles in your garage/drive? Who signed the law that limited sales of new class III weapons to police and military? Who was president during the Ruby Ridge incident in Idaho? When the Waco (Mt. Carmel) raid and standoff were initiated? Who started the EPA? What one group hasn't been able to pass, the other has, often with the full support of the people who would have opposed it if the other group had proposed it. But ever, at least in my lifetime, advancing toward a more Statist, totalitarian government. Failure to recognize that will have it come about. Neither Party is your friend if you are a fan of a Constitutional Republic. If you like one of the Kabuke dancers better than the other one, that is up to you, but at least know the game for what it is.

Then this really has nothing to do with Trump at all.   You've rejected the entire GOP itself.  That's fine, but it also means there's no point in even voting down-ticket, or even participating in politics at all.  Because there is absolutely zero chance that a new conservative party could get anywhere before the left and Democrats have a permanent stranglehold on power.

Quote
Otherwise, explain the failure of the GOP controlled Congress to shut down the Obama Agenda.

Lack of enough conservative votes in Congress to win a shutdown.  It would have been expending political capital while not accomplishing anything other than to give more seats to those on the left the next time around.

Any you still haven't pointed to the Trump/GOP equivalent to the violent leftist mobs in the streets, and DOJ complicit in covering for them.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:38:09 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1245 on: October 05, 2016, 05:35:10 pm »
Well said Joe.  Well said.

But none so deaf as those who refuse to hear.

Instead some call us Hillary supporters and paranoid delusionals for daring to give the warnings.

Oh well.

Nothing new under the sun.
When I was a kid, there was a saying "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king."

Nope. Wrong.
At the hint of vision, they'd pluck his eyes out first, then kill him.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1246 on: October 05, 2016, 05:46:41 pm »
Then this really has nothing to do with Trump at all.

Any you still haven't pointed to the Trump/GOP equivalent to the violent leftist mobs in the streets, and DOJ complicit in covering for them.
There you go again.

Willfully missing the point that the idea is to PREVENT such, not react to it, by which time it will be too late. If I could point to it, I likely wouldn't be typing this response.

Trump (DUH!) hasn't had a DOJ to use against those who won't kiss his ring yet. Do you really want to hand him that power?

Do you really want him to be able to launch strategic weapons?
When he has demonstrated he will attack without getting facts, lie about the facts, and redouble the attack--on the wrong person.
I have been all over the problems with Mr. Trump which indicate character flaws which would preclude any fitness for  the job of POTUS.

It is those character flaws (not showing up in soft porn videos), which are the problem, which could lead to a dictatorship, and enough like yourself who despite their flaccid support would be more than willing to stand by and let it happen out of fear that "the other person" might do the same thing.

I'm not okay with either of the two parties candidates. Which is why I will vote for neither of them.

Funny how a person named after someone who didn't exist, who was a construct designed to deceive would keep harping at those who forsee a bad outcome.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online libertybele

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1247 on: October 05, 2016, 05:53:12 pm »
Or have just read a history book or 50, which is something you might consider before making such ridiculous statements again.

So...you are denying that Hitler like Trump was a narcissit?  A demagogue?  A psychopath and a sociopath?  Several months ago, I posted several posts giving links to various different publications from historians and psychiatrists and psychiatric publications declaring Trump a narcissist, and comparing him to Hitler.  I was merely pointing out the obvious similar personality traits of Hitler and Trump.   
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1248 on: October 05, 2016, 05:55:51 pm »
So...you are denying that Hitler like Trump was a narcissit?  A demagogue?  A psychopath and a sociopath?  Several months ago, I posted several posts giving links to various different publications from historians and psychiatrists and psychiatric publications declaring Trump a narcissist, and comparing him to Hitler.  I was merely pointing out the obvious similar personality traits of Hitler and Trump.

No I am SAYING he WAS all those things. Because history SHOWS he was/is.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1249 on: October 05, 2016, 05:59:46 pm »
So...you are denying that Hitler like Trump was a narcissit?  A demagogue?  A psychopath and a sociopath?  Several months ago, I posted several posts giving links to various different publications from historians and psychiatrists and psychiatric publications declaring Trump a narcissist, and comparing him to Hitler.  I was merely pointing out the obvious similar personality traits of Hitler and Trump.

But those commonalities, even if accurate, aren't enough to make someone Hitler.  Without the extremist, rigid ideology, willingness to kill, and the obsession with obtaining total, dictatorial political power, what you've got is an antisocial cad, not a bloodthirsty dictator.


And I'd ask again -- how is it possible for Trump to simultaneously be Hitler, while also not really interested in gaining power at all, and just serving as a convenient foil for Hillary?  What kind of extremist dictator wannabe doesn't care if he gets power??
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 06:00:41 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »