Cruz: I'm voting for Trump

[musiclady]

They aren't my numbers. All those Iraqi deaths are meaningless. I like that.  You make a very good case.  Using your logic all the deaths accrued through the HOLOCAUST were meaningless. Congratulations.

But the HOLOCAUST got much worse when the Allies were approaching, bighead.

If we had just not invaded Germany, just think how many of them might not have been slaughtered.

The game you're playing goes both ways.

Blaming our troops for the deaths caused by Sunni terrorists is just wrong.

The BAD guys killed the Jews, and the BAD guys killed Iraqi citizens.

THOSE are the facts, fred.

btw, you are deliberately MISQUOTING DougLoss when you say that he said the deaths were meaningless.

Your "facts" and distortion thereof are what is meaningless.

[bigheadfred]

But the HOLOCAUST got much worse when the Allies were approaching, bighead.

If we had just not invaded Germany, just think how many of them might not have been slaughtered.

The game you're playing goes both ways.

Blaming our troops for the deaths caused by Sunni terrorists is just wrong.

The BAD guys killed the Jews, and the BAD guys killed Iraqi citizens.

THOSE are the facts, fred.

btw, you are deliberately MISQUOTING DougLoss when you say that he said the deaths were meaningless.

Your "facts" and distortion thereof are what is meaningless.

Get a grip.  Where have I blamed our troops? 

[Gov Bean Counter]

Daniel 3New International Version (NIV)

The Image of Gold and the Blazing Furnace

3 King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, sixty cubits high and six cubits wide,[a] and set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. 2 He then summoned the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials to come to the dedication of the image he had set up. 3 So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials assembled for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up, and they stood before it.

4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: 5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. 6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”


This election has gone beyond a political candidate.  Send me to the furnace!

By my scorekeeper, Cruz wins...


Romans 12:20 New International Version
On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

[Formerly Once-Ler]

OK. I give up. You people ARE correct. If you look at figures for deaths in Iraq--from the low too the high--one CAN say that the elimination of so many POTENTIAL enemies is a good thing.

Between 156,531 and 175,101 violent civilian deaths since January 2003. Iraq Body Count, a volunteer-led organization, has been counting deaths since near the start of the war. It can only provide an “irrefutable baseline,” it says, because of how it finds evidence: cross‑checking media reports of violent events or of bodies being found with figures from hospitals, morgues, other NGOs and official figures.

At least 151,000 “violent deaths” between 2003 and 2008. This estimate comes from a study by the Iraqi Government in collaboration with the World Health Organization, which surveyed 9,345 households and extrapolated the data. The possible range was enormous: between 80,000 and 234,000 deaths.

461,000 “excess deaths” between 2003 to 2011. This estimate comes from a 2013 survey of 2,000 households by a group of American, Canadian, and Iraqi researchers. Two-thirds of these deaths were found to be due to direct violence, and a third to indirect causes like failed heath systems.

3 pages back you were complaining we should have dropped neutron bombs on the Iraqi people and now you're all whiny about civilian deaths.  Your hypocrisy is showing.

[musiclady]

Get a grip.  Where have I blamed our troops?

And who was in Iraq, freeing them from tyranny?

btw, how about the rest of the post?  Was WWII wrong because it resulted in the deaths of millions upon millions of innocent citizens?

If not, why not?   If you know about the end of the war, you know that when our troops had invaded Germany, the deaths multiplied exponentially.

Was that the Allies' fault too?

What about your (lack of) consistency here??

Does the right and wrong of a war depend on whether or not you personally agree with it?  Or is there some consistent standard about what happens in a war?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

UPDATE

[bigheadfred]

3 pages back you were complaining we should have dropped neutron bombs on the Iraqi people and now you're all whiny about civilian deaths.  Your hypocrisy is showing.

I'm not whiny about civilian deaths. I'm just trying to figure out your excuses for defending something that was MFUTU.

[bigheadfred]

I'm really trying to figure this out. Bush's removal of the BAD guy opened the door for the BAD guys to kill hundreds of thousands of people and that is a good thing. Right? Right.

[bigheadfred]

 

Pretty soon we'll be battling evil in another dimension.

[sinkspur]

I'm really trying to figure this out. Bush's removal of the BAD guy opened the door for the BAD guys to kill hundreds of thousands of people and that is a good thing. Right? Right.

No. Obama's removal of the troops that secured the country after the surge resulted in the bad guys coming in.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I'm not whiny about civilian deaths. I'm just trying to figure out your excuses for defending something that was MFUTU.

You are whiny about civilian deaths.  I already defended the Iraq war - YOU RESPONDED TO MY POST - and then I said I was obviously wasting my time.  I suspect you are incapable of remembering posts from hours earlier, or you are just intellectually dishonest.  I'm done pretending I'm arguing with an adult. 

[Gov Bean Counter]

That is a beautiful verse.  It does not apply here.  Billionaire Trump is neither hungry nor thirsty.  He wanted Cruz to be his partner in crime, achieving power the authoritarian/snake oil salesman way.   Cruz submitted.  Bad move.

Metaphor.

[bigheadfred]

You are whiny about civilian deaths.  I already defended the Iraq war - YOU RESPONDED TO MY POST - and then I said I was obviously wasting my time.  I suspect you are incapable of remembering posts from hours earlier, or you are just intellectually dishonest.  I'm done pretending I'm arguing with an adult.

This is your defense?

It taught the Bin Laden's of the world that the USA isn't a "Paper Tiger."  It taught them that we do not have to wait to be attacked.  We can act proactively.  The message that was sent was if you mess with us not only will we take you out, but we take out your neighbors too.  That is a message that was heard by ME countries who ,until Dubya, have had little reason to curb terrorism training camps within their country.

Iraq sucks now, but we can't know what kind of aggression Saddam would have pursued in the absence of our response to his REPEATED violations of U.N. resolutions.

And where did I say I thought civilian deaths were a bad thing? 

[bigheadfred]

No. Obama's removal of the troops that secured the country after the surge resulted in the bad guys coming in.

Are you familiar with SOFA?

[libertybele]

No. Obama's removal of the troops that secured the country after the surge resulted in the bad guys coming in.

 

[240B]

As for me and mine, we're voting with Cruz.

[Norm Lenhart]

As for me and mine, we're voting with Cruz.

But you wouldn't do that until Cruz sold out to the liberal. Situational ethics on full display. When it was time to stand with Cruz as a conservative, where were you? But now that he stands with a liberal, there you are.

[bigheadfred]

Cruz can't win any game if Cruz isn't in the game.

[240B]

But you wouldn't do that until Cruz sold out to the liberal. Situational ethics on full display. When it was time to stand with Cruz as a conservative, where were you? But now that he stands with a liberal, there you are.

You are elevated and correct, dear sir.

Please allow me to rephrase.

As for me and mine, Cruz is voting with us.

[Norm Lenhart]

You are elevated and correct, dear sir.

Please allow me to rephrase.

As for me and mine, Cruz is voting with us.

Not something to be proud of. Still left with a bunch of liberals empowering another liberal. Conservatives do not empower liberals.

[Silver Pines]

About the Cruz endorsement:  https://twitter.com/RMConservative

Direct link:  http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/show/conservativeconscience/id/4692984

@RAT Patrol

Cruz will also be on Beck's show tomorrow morning.

[Norm Lenhart]

Thanks for the heads up.  I like that podcast by Daniel Horowitz.  He agrees that Cruz made a terrible strategic mistake, but he has helped me soften a little.  Time will tell if Cruz is caving big time.  I'll give him a chance to redeem himself.  I'm still VERY disappointed -- mad even -- but I do not want to cut off my nose to spite my face with this.  Cruz has been a strong ally.  We shall see.

I hope  he does redeem himself. But we arent cutting off our noses here. Cruz' past great actions aside, He had one job and when it mattered most, he failed in the worst way. He completely crapped all over his years of principle because when it mattered, he did not stand on it.

So even if he redeems himself, no one has the slightest reason to think him principled, nor to trust him. Actions are what they are.

[bigheadfred]

Thanks for the heads up.  I like that podcast by Daniel Horowitz.  He agrees that Cruz made a terrible strategic mistake, but he has helped me soften a little.  Time will tell if Cruz is caving big time.  I'll give him a chance to redeem himself.  I'm still VERY disappointed -- mad even -- but I do not want to cut off my nose to spite my face with this.  Cruz has been a strong ally.  We shall see.

The last part of the show. It is pretty hard to stand strong when you are under extreme  pressure from all sides. Not that I would know. heh heh heh

[sinkspur]

Are you familiar with SOFA?

Yes.  I'm also familiar with the fact that Obama made no effort to renegotiate it (which he could have done).  He wanted out.

And here we are.

[bigheadfred]

I hope  he does redeem himself. But we arent cutting off our noses here. Cruz' past great actions aside, He had one job and when it mattered most, he failed in the worst way. He completely crapped all over his years of principle because when it mattered, he did not stand on it.

So even if he redeems himself, no one has the slightest reason to think him principled, nor to trust him. Actions are what they are.

He is a politician. I don't trust politicians. That's all.