Author Topic: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It  (Read 12844 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2016, 07:22:21 pm »
Nope.

Still not working.

And the price for my vote has gone up another million, to $68 million.

Sorry, @HonestJohn ---if you don't understand that you are facilitating your own political destruction .... there isn't a reason in the world for me to buy your vote --- at any price.   Why would I or anyone possibly want you on their team?

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2016, 07:24:51 pm »
That's true.  It's unfortunate that the "you're helping Hillary become President" language gets used.  The correct language would be "you're not helping to stop Hillary from becoming President."

Oh I get it now...My refusal to support either of these turds means I'm not helping stop either of them from becoming President.  Then why are the Trump fans all up in my grill?...I'm not helping to stop Trump.

Offline INVAR

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2016, 07:25:54 pm »
Point-by-point rebuttal of this stupid tripe by the desperate Trump militants who told us they did not need us to "win":

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The election of Hillary Clinton would mean final defeat for American conservativism -- for at least a generation and almost certainly for much longer than that. 

That was made inevitable by the mobs of self-identifying Republicans and Conservatives who cheered Trump as he completely and very personally destroyed every single Conservative in the race and applauding his endorsements of liberal Republicans running for Congress.

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The demographic changes certain to flow from eight more years of open borders, general amnesty, and distribution of the newly arrived statist voters to electorally vulnerable states would make the Left’s presidential victory this fall, for all practical purposes, permanent.

That is already the case.  Horse gone.  Shutting the barn door is irrelevant at this point.  Obama just celebrated the 50,000th Syrian "refugee" being dumped here in this country to the applause and acquiescence of the very party and people you morons are supporting as some kind of bulwark against Statists.

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And that’s without considering the effect on the electorate of the increasingly intolerant and repressive educational and political environment, an environment that for eight more years would continue driving substantial segments of the populace, especially the vulnerable young, into the ever more mandatory belief systems of the Left.

That barn door has been propped open for 45 years with periodic assistance from the GOP to ensure it stayed open.  So this point is just the typical fear mongering we have heard since Dole.


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If Clinton prevails there will be no conservative (or Republican) president during the lifetime of any adult member of the feckless Republican royal families

You made that inevitable the moment you made Trump your prince.  We are already at demographic parity with the third world socialists that the GOP enabled to squat here over the last 35 years in concert with the Democrats.

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Despite the inarguable magnitude of the coming Clinton/Left disaster, Republican/conservative turncoats, led by these and other members of what Peggy Noonan aptly terms the “protected classes,” are working for Clinton’s election.

That bullshite no longer flies.  Trump is working for Hildabeast's election.  He's her Trojan Stalking Horse, and has been since he got in the race.  His role was to wipe out Conservative viable opposition to Hillary.  His personal unrelenting vehemence against Conservatives in this race has still unabated, while he hits Hillary with kid gloves and says he is "bored" with having to attack her.

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Never before in American history have intellectual and political leaders of a major party deliberately attempted to open the gates of enduring power to an enemy sworn to their eradication.

The Republican party leadership, especially in the Senate did a fine job of just that for the benefit of Obama and the Democrats.

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I’m absolutely certain what they think: “We’ll do fine under Clinton and the Left...”

Proof you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to principled Conservatives not in the beltway.  None of us think that.

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This is clear: Trump’s defeat, if it occurs, will be the work of the NeverTrumps.

No.  Wrong.  Trump's 'defeat' was engineered the moment the frenzied mobs made the NY Liberal their prince.  Trump was never in it to 'win'.  He was in it to gain notoriety, start his own network and clear any opposition to Hillary.  In this, he succeeded beyond what they even envisioned.

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The margin by which Trump now trails in national and battle ground polls is almost exactly equal to that small but significant segment of the Republican and conservative voter base -- some 20 - 25% -- that’s still following the NeverTrumps off the cliff.


You and your boy said you did not need us to 'win'.  So pound sand.  We warned you.  Instead you continue to insult, ridicule, castigate and attempt to shame - driving us further into activism against your prince.

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So, if Trump falls, the NeverTrumps will be grinning beside the body -- like Brutus perhaps a bit nervously -- bloody knives in hand. 

We don't want a Caesar.  We will not support a NY Liberal Fascist who promises punishments, has policies to the Left of Hillary Clinton and has an amazing record of sowing discord and division to be our eternal ruler.

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Perhaps more pertinently, where will they hide?  Questions for a different essay.

Where will we hide?  From what?  Roving bands of angry Trump Militants calling for our heads for treason?  That I expect given what your compatriots are promising.

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Victory by the execrable Clinton and the Left is still avoidable, but only if the usually overwhelming percentages of conservatives and Republicans unite behind their Party’s candidate.

Never going to happen.  So pound sand.  Your party is dead.  It's just the big government Socialism side of the Democrat Marxist/Communists.

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The Republican and conservative voter base has got to be persuaded to ignore the suicidal advice of their failed former leaders…

Obviously since Trump has failed to accomplish that himself - all you people got left is intimidation, fear-mongering and attempted public shaming to "persuade" Conservatives to abandon principle to vote for a cult of personality.  A failed proposition at best.  You are better off appealing to Bernie Supporters.  Trump is closer to them ideologically.

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But if 20-25%% of the Republican core continues to follow the wrist slitting advice of the Never Trump crowd, the Left once again will be victorious

The GOP made that inevitable when it ceded all opposition to Obama and the Demcrats, went to war on Conservatives in their party to push Establishment Liberals (Thad Cochran anyone?) and when it made Trump their nominee.  20-25% of the Conservative Base has left the modern Whig party, because we were told repeatedly and ad nauseum we were not wanted, needed and should be 'punched in the nose', told to sit down and shut up.

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America thereafter would be permanently transformed into a new nation, molded by the Left’s dystopian dreams of multiculturalism, racial and ethnic balkanization, boiling hatred of black for white, open borders, and a government suffocated economy, a new nation whose populace would be increasingly beaten down by the dictates of governmentally mandated orthodoxies. 

Already an institutionalized fact that the GOP helped cement into permanency in concert with the Left.  It is already permanently fundamentally transformed.

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Here -- of singular importance for any future chance of conservative governance in America -- is what we know is coming from Clinton and the Left:

Intensification of the Democratic Party-sponsored third world invasion of the country.

Yawn.  The GOP wants the same damned thing.  They have already sponsored it, endorsed it, funded it and deliberately looked the other way at Obama's deliberate lawlessness on this issue.  So spare us the fear-mongering.


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And if Clinton’s amnesty runs into Congressional opposition and she resorts to unconstitutional executive orders, this time there’ll be no help from the Supreme Court.

Show us one UnConstitutional EO the GOP legitimately attempted to stop, hold to account or defund as they had power to do?

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The US Supreme Court will become a five vote rubber stamp for the Left immediately upon Clinton’s appointment of Justice Scalia’s replacement. That majority will be sustained or enlarged by whatever further vacancies come Clinton’s way.

Irrelevant.  The GOP already rubber-stamped most of Obama's judicial appointments.  I do not believe Trump will appoint Originalists despite his claims. 

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Much more likely, what they’ve focused on is what’s always been their main concern: continued politically useless but personally remunerative occupation of the places of party power.

We do not care a whit about your party.  It needs to die.

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Over the last 25 years, neither the intellectuals nor the Party leaders of the NeverTrump crowd has prevented, or even slowed, the Left’s march through our cultural institutions.
 

Nominating a NY Liberal Democrat who supported the Leftist march through our institutions isn't exactly going to stem that tide either.

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One last fatal give-away from the crowd that’s already failed so grandly. I submit that Ronald Reagan, America’s most successful conservative president, and William Buckley, America’s most effective conservative intellectual, would be appalled by this selfish, self-destructive claque of clueless politicians and confused scribblers who are trying to lead America into the arms of the Left.

I do not see Reagan or Buckley supporting a known NY Liberal Democrat for the standard bearer of the Conservative movement.

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It should be evident by now that the determined suicides within Republican Party and conservative leadership ranks can’t be reached by reason. This is the time to simply ignore them. Doing so now will be good practice for the future.

But that's the thing.  You people DON'T IGNORE US.  You continue to insult, ridicule, attempt to shame and go to war on those of us your own nominee said he did not want the support of.  You just said above you cannot win without the 20-25% of us who have bolted your dead party and will not vote for your liberal candidate.

We prefer you ignore us.  But you won't - because you have already blamed us for your titanic loss upcoming.

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As for the rest of us, we can only work to ensure that, in the end, the overwhelming majority of America’s conservatives and Republicans are guided by what their greatest leaders would have done in these circumstances, and not by the willfully destructive, self-interested counsel of the snobs who are trying to hand America to the Left.

Well you go ahead and continue to pander to Bernie supporters and other liberals to genuflect your prince.  Those of us governed by principles are not interested in voting for your nominee and will never do so.

We expect you will continue to war on our principles then and ridicule them the same as the Left does.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2016, 07:26:35 pm »
She's not getting my vote.  And neither is Trump.  So by your logic I guess I'm not voting to stop him, either.

I don't see why folks get so upset about me refusing to vote for either charlatan.  Is it because of their own lack of principle at a time when their principles could have made a difference?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,223700.msg1043721.html#msg1043721
They say great minds think alike...we now have proof that mediocre minds do too.  :beer:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 07:28:00 pm by Once-Ler »

Offline Vulcan

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Offline r9etb

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2016, 07:32:52 pm »
They say great minds think alike...we now have proof that mediocre minds do too.  :beer:

In the land of the stupid, the mediocre mind is king!

Offline INVAR

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2016, 07:33:35 pm »
No ... you're ranting and raving and failing to make sense.

But, carry on.  Tis your own destruction you fight so hard for.

Exactly the kind of reply I usually get from die-hard leftists when they don't like what I write either.

And yes I will carry on.

The Trump Militant has pushed me into open activism against your nominee and I see your compatriots and your prince as inherently more dangerous to my liberty than I do Hillary.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2016, 07:35:02 pm »
Always amusing to read articles like this blaming a handful of people for the failure of Trump instead of putting the blame where it belongs.....on Trump. He is running one of the laziest, low energy, mismanaged campaigns since Bob Dole. He has barely any infrastructure in any states he needs to win and he consistently steps in it on the campaign trail. He is a clown.

geronl

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2016, 07:36:37 pm »
Trump has turned the GOP into a clone of the Democrat party.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2016, 07:37:17 pm »
Nope.

Still not working.

And the price for my vote has gone up another million, to $68 million.

For just $5 I'll write your name in for "President Honest John."

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2016, 07:38:41 pm »
In the land of the stupid, the mediocre mind is king!
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind bat.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2016, 07:46:35 pm »
She's not getting my vote.  And neither is Trump.  So by your logic I guess I'm not voting to stop him, either.

That's correct.

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I don't see why folks get so upset about me refusing to vote for either charlatan. 

I don't either.  If someone can't stand Trump and chooses not to vote for him, I think that's fine.  I do think the argument that he is not likely to be any better than her is wrong, though.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2016, 07:48:13 pm »
Always amusing to read articles like this blaming a handful of people for the failure of Trump instead of putting the blame where it belongs.....on Trump.

I don't think "instead" makes any sense.

If Hillary wins, I see nothing inconsistent in blaming both Trump, and those who refused to vote for him.

Offline r9etb

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2016, 08:04:35 pm »
I don't think "instead" makes any sense.

If Hillary wins, I see nothing inconsistent in blaming both Trump, and those who refused to vote for him.

Considering that Clinton could have been beaten by pretty much anybody except Trump, I'd say that if "blame" is to be assessed at all, the largest portion goes to those who nominated Trump.

The problem is not me, or my unwillingness to vote for either Trump or Clinton. 

No, the problem is that the GOP nominated a truly terrible candidate, and we're all going to pay the price for it.

Offline INVAR

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2016, 08:15:22 pm »
I don't think "instead" makes any sense.

If Hillary wins, I see nothing inconsistent in blaming both Trump, and those who refused to vote for him.

I see.  Blaming the actual people who cast a ballot for Clinton doesn't count as being responsible for her coronation.

It's the people who did not cast a ballot for Trump that will shoulder the blame.

Makes perfect sense this side of the Looking Glass in this day and age.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2016, 08:24:42 pm »
I see.  Blaming the actual people who cast a ballot for Clinton doesn't count as being responsible for her coronation.

It's the people who did not cast a ballot for Trump that will shoulder the blame.

Makes perfect sense this side of the Looking Glass in this day and age.

I don't care if they blame me or not.

All they really want is for me to fear being blamed.

I don't.

Offline r9etb

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2016, 08:25:44 pm »
I see.  Blaming the actual people who cast a ballot for Clinton doesn't count as being responsible for her coronation.

It's the people who did not cast a ballot for Trump that will shoulder the blame.

Makes perfect sense this side of the Looking Glass in this day and age.

I think they're trying to define our "duty" for us....

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2016, 08:26:29 pm »
I don't see why folks get so upset about me refusing to vote for either charlatan.  Is it because of their own lack of principle at a time when their principles could have made a difference? 

Nah ... more likely it's because nevertrumps still refuse to accept the outcome of an election--that the chosen lost fair and square.  And the contortions nevertrumps put themselves through to turn a tantrum into principle--while amusing and oft time comical....has grown tiresome and now troubling.   We've an election to win in November ... and nevertrumps are still stuck in May 3.   What a strange group of people.   :pondering:

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2016, 08:32:11 pm »
Sorry, @HonestJohn ---if you don't understand that you are facilitating your own political destruction .... there isn't a reason in the world for me to buy your vote --- at any price.   Why would I or anyone possibly want you on their team?

Yes, why would you want votes...

And it's now $69 million.

Offline r9etb

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2016, 08:43:23 pm »
Nah ... more likely it's because nevertrumps still refuse to accept the outcome of an election--that the chosen lost fair and square.

You seem to think that loyalty to party is superior to principle.  History records a variety of other countries where that was the norm. 

I am not required to vote for anybody, regardless of what party they supposedly represent.

Free men know that they have a duty to do what is right, regardless of cost.  Men content to live under the bootheels of demagogues argue as you do.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 08:45:30 pm by r9etb »

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2016, 08:45:04 pm »
Sorry ---if you don't understand that you are facilitating your own political destruction .... there isn't a reason in the world for me to buy your vote --- at any price.   Why would I or anyone possibly want you on their team?
We've already been destroyed, to the point where we have to use euphemisms like "alphabet soup lobby" to tell anything resembling the truth. Obama's re-election ensured that—and we went along with the same logic you're trying to push back in 2012, too! It doesn't work.
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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2016, 08:48:47 pm »
Nah ... more likely it's because nevertrumps still refuse to accept the outcome of an election--that the chosen lost fair and square.  And the contortions nevertrumps put themselves through to turn a tantrum into principle--while amusing and oft time comical....has grown tiresome and now troubling.   We've an election to win in November ... and nevertrumps are still stuck in May 3.   What a strange group of people.   :pondering:
The candidate you are demanding we vote for is unfit for office. No primary, no deflection, no attempts at trying to shift the blame to some other entity like the stunts you Trump-worshipping (word removed as per TBR policy) keep trying to pull changes that.
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Offline LMAO

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2016, 08:51:18 pm »
The candidate you are demanding we vote for is unfit for office. No primary, no deflection, no attempts at trying to shift the blame to some other entity like the stunts you Trump-worshipping (word removed as per TBR policy) keep trying to pull changes that.

@jmyrlefuller

Correct. They are the ones still obsessed with Cruz.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2016, 08:53:14 pm »
Nah ... more likely it's because nevertrumps still refuse to accept the outcome of an election--that the chosen lost fair and square.  And the contortions nevertrumps put themselves through to turn a tantrum into principle--while amusing and oft time comical....has grown tiresome and now troubling.   We've an election to win in November ... and nevertrumps are still stuck in May 3.   What a strange group of people.   :pondering:

I accept the outcome of the primaries.  The voters have spoken and both choices are bad for different reasons.  It's not a tantrum but a realization that the GOP no longer shares enough of my values to keep my vote just because it shares the name of a party I used to proudly call "Mine."  So like 100 million Americans I choose neither.  I don't hear you bemoaning the other 100 million who never vote.  You have an election to win.  I have an election to endure

Offline INVAR

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Re: NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2016, 08:59:11 pm »
Nah ... more likely it's because nevertrumps still refuse to accept the outcome of an election--that the chosen lost fair and square.  And the contortions nevertrumps put themselves through to turn a tantrum into principle--while amusing and oft time comical....has grown tiresome and now troubling.   We've an election to win in November ... and nevertrumps are still stuck in May 3. 

So what do you intend to do about it?

You and your prince emphatically stated you did not want us, nor need us to "win".

Now you say that our refusal to genuflect and support your prince is 'tiresome' and now 'troubling'. 

So I'll ask again - what do you intend to do about it?

Threaten us more?

Insult us more?

Belittle and ridicule us more?

You think any of that bullying crap is going to accomplish anything except cement our resolve further and push us into more overt activism against your anointed?

Because that is all you people and your prince are doing.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775