Trump's Offer to Christians Is Same Offer Devil Made Christ

[musiclady]

and a 1,00x's 

I am in that Evangelical Christian group that will either vote for a 3rd party, or not vote. I will not vote for one evil over another evil. The only difference between Trump and Hillary is one is a man and the other is a woman. They are both evil, vindictive, self absorbed jerks without a shred of character. I would suspect the author of this article is a long time lib.

Agree completely!

To choose one evil over another is still to choose evil.

Cannot, will not go there.

[Silver Pines]

I'm not a very religious person (Christian yes, churchy no), but this whole thing does seem to be a big test. I understand some one one side see it as a revolution and many of us on the other side see it as a con job, but one thing most can't deny is that we are being asked to compromise our principles for this 'revolution'.

I'm not even talking about 'the perfect being the enemy of the good' or demanding perfection from a candidate, but simply basic reasonableness in the areas of trust and values. We don't see this as someone who is 90% with us and we are complaining about the 10% difference. We see this as someone who is 50% at best and the half that agrees we have doubt it can be trusted simply because it changes often or when it comes to his own actions, he does the opposite with his own money and business.

But for many, the deal breaker came when the suggestion that 'voting your conscience, voting your values, and voting for the Constitution' were concepts that were booed by those who are selling this 'revolution'.

You don't need to be a Cruz supporter (as it was his speech) to be deeply disturbed by that.

@AbaraXas

Full disclosure:  I'm a Christian, saved by Christ, but we don't have a church that we attend.  I'm not going to hold myself up as some kind of Christian example because I know I'm not one. 

But I do know what's right, and from the beginning I've felt strongly that this is some kind of a test.  I'm convinced of it.  I believe that a spiritual veil has fallen over the eyes of some people; IMO there really isn't any other explanation for much of what's happened during this election season.

Consider the Christians, many of them leaders, who doggedly insist on supporting Trump, despite the fact that he owns strip clubs; is a pathological liar and a serial adulterer who has never shown one bit of remorse for his behavior; admitted that he doesn't think he needs forgiveness because he hasn't done anything wrong; mocked a disabled person; and bragged about the size of his genitals on national TV.   He's a dumpster fire and a disgrace, and yet Christians seem to adore him. 

That includes members of my husband's family, and like you, I find it deeply disturbing.  My inlaws are devout, church-going Christians, and intelligent people, but their love for Trump is off the charts and into fanatic territory.  When we lay out the facts about him, they refuse to look us in the eye.

I absolutely believe something spiritual is going on here.

[libertybele]

To me the basic reasons not to vote for Trump stick out like a sore thumb.  He has out and out lied on several occasions.  At first glimpse Trump proposed a border wall keeping illegals out, deporting criminals, and not granting amnesty.  Fair enough; keeping our sovereignty, protecting our citizens and holding one responsible for breaking the law. However he has changed his mind on those issues time and time again.  His attack on Megyn Kelly was a shock to me.  I didn't find that the question(s) she asked were so out of line that it warranted the crude and vulgar attack Trump verbally made to her. To be honest, I found myself actually making excuses for him; but the more I thought and reheard what he said, the more I was appalled by what he said.  Next was his out and out bombastic assault and smear campaign against Cruz; when just weeks before he joined him in a rally against Obama's Iran deal.  I was really flabbergasted.  I at that point in time began to really listen to what he had to say.  The next occurrence that really bewildered me was the endorsement from Falwell Jr., when just weeks before that Cruz made his announcement speech at Liberty University AND Trump had also stated that he did not need forgiveness because he, Donald J. Trump doesn't do anything wrong!

I am thankful for this article.  It gives me an opportunity to say what I've been thinking for quite some time.  Evil is evil.  There is no lesser evil.  Satan is tempting us right now to take the easy way out; voting for one evil over another rather than voting for morals, principals and our Christian beliefs.  I don't believe Trump represents any of those.  He is amoral, he lacks character and doesn't display Christian values.  I find myself at times after listening to him, tempted to believe him as he can be convincing...but I come back to the same conclusion.  How can I vote for someone who has displayed such a lack of moral character and someone with such a lack of integrity? Voting for him because I don't want the other evil person running still gives us the same result; evil.

Yes, because of this article I can admit, I've been tempted to vote for Trump.  However, I cannot and will not.

[Chosen Daughter]

Christianity is a religion of redemption.

Who am I to challenge and refuse Trump's call for forgiveness?

I have to take his word of his own faith and repentance. Had the Devil asked Christ for forgiveness, would God have granted it? I don't know?

I know that I am not personally strong enough to rebuke Trump's call for a second chance and a new path in life. I will not be the one to cast the first stone  over the shoulder of Jesus at Trump.

Oh so true.  But this isn't about refusing Trump Salvation.  It is about the confusion of the church to know God when they see Him.  To recognize and seek His Wisdom.  These people forwarding Trump being Gods chosen should be mature Christians discerning the difference between the world will save me or God will save me.  He is our Refuge and Strength.  If Trump recently accepted Christ as his Savior all of Heaven is rejoicing.  But we cannot confuse where the Power comes from and it isn't any man.  If Trump recently accepted the Lord he is still preaching worldy idea's.  Self puffing up.  It is the church who will be judged if they confuse fear with apprehension and idol worship with Trust in God.



To the faithful, Trump has said, "Christians should vote for me because if I'm there, you're going to have plenty of power. You don't need anybody else." Trump claims to be sinless and without need of God's forgiveness. Let me ask you, when the beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies, what kind of things do you think he said?
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/trumps-offer-to-christians-is-same-offer-devil-made-christ-168993/#t9jHFKi5RR2GFq1B.99


 1 Corinthians 3


New International Version


The Church and Its Leaders

1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

16Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

18Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”a ; 20and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”b 21So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephasc or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
 


Psalm 62:11

Once God has spoken; twice have I heard this:
that power belongs to God,

[Chosen Daughter]

To me the basic reasons not to vote for Trump stick out like a sore thumb.  He has out and out lied on several occasions.  At first glimpse Trump proposed a border wall keeping illegals out, deporting criminals, and not granting amnesty.  Fair enough; keeping our sovereignty, protecting our citizens and holding one responsible for breaking the law. However he has changed his mind on those issues time and time again.  His attack on Megyn Kelly was a shock to me.  I didn't find that the question(s) she asked were so out of line that it warranted the crude and vulgar attack Trump verbally made to her. To be honest, I found myself actually making excuses for him; but the more I thought and reheard what he said, the more I was appalled by what he said.  Next was his out and out bombastic assault and smear campaign against Cruz; when just weeks before he joined him in a rally against Obama's Iran deal.  I was really flabbergasted.  I at that point in time began to really listen to what he had to say.  The next occurrence that really bewildered me was the endorsement from Falwell Jr., when just weeks before that Cruz made his announcement speech at Liberty University AND Trump had also stated that he did not need forgiveness because he, Donald J. Trump doesn't do anything wrong!

I am thankful for this article.  It gives me an opportunity to say what I've been thinking for quite some time.  Evil is evil.  There is no lesser evil.  Satan is tempting us right now to take the easy way out; voting for one evil over another rather than voting for morals, principals and our Christian beliefs.  I don't believe Trump represents any of those.  He is amoral, he lacks character and doesn't display Christian values.  I find myself at times after listening to him, tempted to believe him as he can be convincing...but I come back to the same conclusion.  How can I vote for someone who has displayed such a lack of moral character and someone with such a lack of integrity? Voting for him because I don't want the other evil person running still gives us the same result; evil.

Yes, because of this article I can admit, I've been tempted to vote for Trump.  However, I cannot and will not.

Yes I have been tempted too, but can't reconcile it with my faith.  Good post!

[XenaLee]

@AbaraXas

Full disclosure:  I'm a Christian, saved by Christ, but we don't have a church that we attend.  I'm not going to hold myself up as some kind of Christian example because I know I'm not one. 

But I do know what's right, and from the beginning I've felt strongly that this is some kind of a test.  I'm convinced of it. I believe that a spiritual veil has fallen over the eyes of some people; IMO there really isn't any other explanation for much of what's happened during this election season.

Consider the Christians, many of them leaders, who doggedly insist on supporting Trump, despite the fact that he owns strip clubs; is a pathological liar and a serial adulterer who has never shown one bit of remorse for his behavior; admitted that he doesn't think he needs forgiveness because he hasn't done anything wrong; mocked a disabled person; and bragged about the size of his genitals on national TV.   He's a dumpster fire and a disgrace, and yet Christians seem to adore him. 

That includes members of my husband's family, and like you, I find it deeply disturbing.  My inlaws are devout, church-going Christians, and intelligent people, but their love for Trump is off the charts and into fanatic territory.  When we lay out the facts about him, they refuse to look us in the eye.

I absolutely believe something spiritual is going on here.

Exactly what I have been telling my friends and family that's going on.   The only thing that would explain how some seemingly and previously reasonable and sane adults would go, full-blown Trumpist style, a little nuts.  It's supernatural.  And... come to think of it....isn't there a Bible passage about that "spiritual veil" that would be inflicted upon some in the last days?   I'm no Bible scholar, but even I know that one.

[libertybele]

Christianity is a religion of redemption.

Who am I to challenge and refuse Trump's call for forgiveness?

I have to take his word of his own faith and repentance. Had the Devil asked Christ for forgiveness, would God have granted it? I don't know?

I know that I am not personally strong enough to rebuke Trump's call for a second chance and a new path in life. I will not be the one to cast the first stone  over the shoulder of Jesus at Trump.

?? When did Trump ask for a second chance?  In order to ask for a second chance, Trump would have to ask for forgiveness and he has specifically stated that he no need to ask for forgiveness and therefor needs not to repent. 

[TomSea]

I had a hunch, just like that fellow who wrote an article about 2 weeks ago talking about the decline of White Christianity in America,  if one looked up the guy, one saw he was a liberal and progressive along with being a Christian. We can't see what's in a man's heart.

Well, Eric Sapp, the author of this article:

Eric Sapp is a founder of the Eleison Group; the main political group working with Democrats and the progressive faith community

Read More At: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/eric-sapp

Speaks for itself.

 

[musiclady]

?? When did Trump ask for a second chance?  In order to ask for a second chance, Trump would have to ask for forgiveness and he has specifically stated that he no need to ask for forgiveness and therefor needs not to repent.

You're responding to a Trump lover's doublespeak, libertybele. 

He's taking things that have never happened (i.e. Trump's "call for forgiveness") and then attacking others, setting himself up as "holier" than people who know who Trump is and what he has said and done, and whose theology is accurate.

The entire premise of his post is false.  And he's twisting truth to make others look bad as he boasts about himself.

This is spiritual warfare, and we're seeing it first hand.

[Chosen Daughter]

Exactly what I have been telling my friends and family that's going on.   The only thing that would explain how some seemingly and previously reasonable and sane adults would go, full-blown Trumpist style, a little nuts.  It's supernatural.  And... come to think of it....isn't there a Bible passage about that "spiritual veil" that would be inflicted upon some in the last days?   I'm no Bible scholar, but even I know that one.

I don't know if this is what you are thinking.  But here is a talking about end time.

http://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/12.htm

[TomSea]

Beliefnet: Eric Sapp

"Abortion Can Be A Winner For Obama"
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/progressiverevival/2008/09/abortion-can-be-a-winner-for-o.html

Huffington Post: Eric Sapp

"The Tea Party Is Mostly Pro-Choice and Pro-Gay"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-sapp/the-tea-party-is-mostly-p_b_637061.html

---------------

Look what the cat brought in.

[libertybele]

To me the message is very clear:

Titus 3:10-11 ESV
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Titus 3:10-11
After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions, since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.

[Chosen Daughter]

You're responding to a Trump lover's doublespeak, libertybele. 

He's taking things that have never happened (i.e. Trump's "call for forgiveness") and then attacking others, setting himself up as "holier" than people who know who Trump is and what he has said and done, and whose theology is accurate.

The entire premise of his post is false.  And he's twisting truth to make others look bad as he boasts about himself.

This is spiritual warfare, and we're seeing it first hand.

Well there was some reporting that Trump accepted Christ.  I can't say if that is true or not. 

[Chosen Daughter]

To me the message is very clear:

Titus 3:10-11 ESV
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Titus 3:10-11
After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions, since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.

Thank you.  That is exactly what is being done.  That is the plan of Satan to divide the church.

[240B]

It is the church who will be judged if they confuse fear with apprehension and idol worship with Trust in God. <-(love this line, loved it)

To the faithful, Trump has said, "Christians should vote for me because if I'm there, you're going to have plenty of power. You don't need anybody else." Trump claims to be sinless and without need of God's forgiveness. Let me ask you, when the beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies, what kind of things do you think he said?

Without getting too personal, I have had a lot of experience with people like Trump in my life. They are not as stupid as they appear at all. In fact, the opposite is frequently true. They are supermen with super-powers. Their super-power is simplicity. What I mean is that they cut everything down to bare bones. They do not have time for decisions and revisions which a moment will reverse. They are about getting things done, in a straight forward and sometimes brutally honest way. This attribute is perceived by many as childish, and maybe it is. But it works for this personality type. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for them.

It is my humble opinion that you are giving Trump too much credit by assigning any sort of deep motives to what he says and does. I am not convince that he thinks in complex terms. Like a child, he says what he see, and what he means, not as a temptation, but more simply as the truth as he sees it.

Trump is just Trump. Assigning any deep motives to what he says and does is probably giving him too much credit. He is frequently wrong, but he is always sincere. That is really his biggest fault.

Matthew 18:2
Jesus called a little child to stand among them.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, if anyone does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child, he will never enter it."

[TomSea]

So the Pharisees said things about Christ and they hung him from a tree. Seems like he's about the only perfect sinless man to walk the earth.

Drudge Report: "Reverend Trump"

The Sapp bio reads Sapp worked for Ted Kennedy as well; Senator Kennedy has passed on so, I don't like to speak ill of the dead. But he was a big pro-choicer, arguing against Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork. Biden likewise, argued against Bork.

[Chosen Daughter]

Beliefnet: Eric Sapp

"Abortion Can Be A Winner For Obama"
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/progressiverevival/2008/09/abortion-can-be-a-winner-for-o.html

Huffington Post: Eric Sapp

"The Tea Party Is Mostly Pro-Choice and Pro-Gay"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-sapp/the-tea-party-is-mostly-p_b_637061.html

---------------

Look what the cat brought in.

I already read that he was liberal.  So is Trump.  Pro-choice and pro-gay.   I looked it up myself.  The article however is true with the exception that Hillary isn't a moral choice either.   Look what your cat dragged in.

[Chosen Daughter]

Without getting too personal, I have had a lot of experience with people like Trump in my life. They are not as stupid as they appear at all. In fact, the opposite is frequently true. They are supermen with super-powers. Their super-power is simplicity. What I mean is that they cut everything down to bare bones. They do not have time for decisions and revisions which a moment will reverse. They are about getting things done, in a straight forward and sometimes brutally honest way. This attribute is perceived by many as childish, and maybe it is. But it works for this personality type. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for them.

It is my humble opinion that you are giving Trump too much credit by assigning any sort of deep motives to what he says and does. I am not convince that he thinks in complex terms. Like a child, he says what he see, and what he means, not as a temptation, but more simply as the truth as he sees it.

Trump is just Trump. Assigning any deep motives to what he says and does is probably giving him too much credit. He is frequently wrong, but he is always sincere. That is really his biggest fault.

Matthew 18:2
Jesus called a little child to stand among them.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, if anyone does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child, he will never enter it."

Can't see it.  I see a man who believes strength comes from him.  I see a man immersed in his belief he is the only one with an answer and so not needing any from God.  To me it isn't about someone running for President.  It is about all the false idea's about Trump being Gods chosen person in a time such as this.  Baloney!!

[musiclady]

Well there was some reporting that Trump accepted Christ.  I can't say if that is true or not.

Obviously none of us knows what's in his heart.

But we CAN see what's in his behavior, and it is the antithesis of a Christian lifestyle.

The problem comes when one uses Christianity as a weapon against those who are standing up against debauchery and corruption, and feigning spiritual superiority.  That's what the poster above was doing.

[XenaLee]

I don't know if this is what you are thinking.  But here is a talking about end time.

http://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/12.htm

No.  I was referring to this...

2:10 and 2:11

http://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-10.htm

[XenaLee]

Without getting too personal, I have had a lot of experience with people like Trump in my life. They are not as stupid as they appear at all. In fact, the opposite is frequently true. They are supermen with super-powers. Their super-power is simplicity. What I mean is that they cut everything down to bare bones. They do not have time for decisions and revisions which a moment will reverse. They are about getting things done, in a straight forward and sometimes brutally honest way. This attribute is perceived by many as childish, and maybe it is. But it works for this personality type. It doesn't work for everyone, but it works for them.

It is my humble opinion that you are giving Trump too much credit by assigning any sort of deep motives to what he says and does. I am not convince that he thinks in complex terms. Like a child, he says what he see, and what he means, not as a temptation, but more simply as the truth as he sees it.

Trump is just Trump. Assigning any deep motives to what he says and does is probably giving him too much credit. He is frequently wrong, but he is always sincere. That is really his biggest fault.

Matthew 18:2
Jesus called a little child to stand among them.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, if anyone does not receive the kingdom of God like a little child, he will never enter it."

Always sincere?  LMAO!   Even when he is just joking?  Or even when he is just being sarcastic?  Or....even when he is just making a suggestion (vs. a previous seemingly set in stone promise)?

Riiight.

I don't know what Donald Trump you're talking about....but obviously it's one in an alternate reality and/or universe.

[Chosen Daughter]

No.  I was referring to this...

2:10 and 2:11

http://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-10.htm

Yes! Amen 

[Chosen Daughter]

Obviously none of us knows what's in his heart.

But we CAN see what's in his behavior, and it is the antithesis of a Christian lifestyle.

The problem comes when one uses Christianity as a weapon against those who are standing up against debauchery and corruption, and feigning spiritual superiority.  That's what the poster above was doing.

I don't claim any superiority.  And I have pointed out over and over about being able to discern somenone by their behavior.  I was standing up for Trump in that Christ died for all of us and we are all sinners.  I simply cannot judge whether he gave his life to Christ or not.  I hope he did.  But that doesn't make him a person raised up by God for such a time as this.

Just saying.  And believe me I have had my fair share of encounters with Trump Christians who claim superiority over myself for choosing to follow Trump as if he is some god or something.

[240B]

?? When did Trump ask for a second chance?  In order to ask for a second chance, Trump would have to ask for forgiveness and he has specifically stated that he no need to ask for forgiveness and therefor needs not to repent.

I keep that repeated but I'm not sure it is true that Trump said he does not need forgiveness. From what I heard what he said was that he tries to live his life so that he does not need forgiveness, which is a noble thing to say. If he said it that way.

But yes, Trump has recently declared his Christian faith openly which implies to me at least that Christians are obligated to give him a chance to live out his words.

But I could be wrong about that, and I probably am. You guys have to give me a break sometimes. After all, I am not the brightest knife in the classroom after all.

[Chosen Daughter]

I keep that repeated but I'm not sure it is true that Trump said he does not need forgiveness. From what I heard what he said was that he tries to live his life so that he does not need forgiveness, which is a noble thing to say. If he said it that way.

But yes, Trump has recently declared his Christian faith openly which implies to me at least that Christians are obligated to give him a chance to live out his words.

But I could be wrong about that, and I probably am. You guys have to give me a break sometimes. After all, I am not the brightest knife in the classroom after all.

[/b]

I don't feel like the brightest knife in the classroom either.  But this is the exact quote.

Donald Trump said Saturday that "I am not sure that I have" ever asked God for forgiveness, telling the 2015 Iowa Family Leadership Summit that "I just go on and try to do a better job from there.

 "I don't think so," Trump, who is Presbyterian, said in response to the question from pollster and summit host Frank Luntz. Trump was among 10 Republican presidential candidates at the daylong event in Ames, Iowa.

"If I do something wrong, I think I just try to make it right," Trump said. "I don't bring God into that picture. I don't.

 "When we go into church — and when I drink my little wine, which is about the only wine I drink, and have my little cracker — I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness. I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed, OK?

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-does-not-ask/2015/07/18/id/657832/

So if he is Presbyterian I have to wonder if they teach that we all are sinners and need forgiveness?  Something tells me he either doesn't go or doesn't pay attention.  Surely does not understand the Bible he waves around.