The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins

[rodamala]

DJT fails the J.C. Watts, "Character Counts" criteria.  He is not doing the right thing when nobody is looking.

[EasyAce]

[Axel]

I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

But their only defense now is to pretend that ..."it's not me, it's them". 

Nathan Thurm  ;)

[roamer_1]

I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

That's because Democrats always play to their base.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Maybe... Just maybe, Republicans should mimic Democrats.... Yes, yes, I know... They already are - Just look at what they offer as a candidate... But I mean in a different way.

Maybe Republicans should offer their base what they want, like the Democrats do. They might find out they'll win.

In the mean time, I will remain Conservative and vote for Conservatives.  All this whining and crying and pitching a fit won't change that.

[ScottinVA]

I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

I find interesting your implications the whole election rests on the decision of a relative few conservatives who choose not to support Trump.  Whatever happened to all those chest-pounding, heady days in which we heard, "We don't need your vote!!!?" 

Are "anti-Trumpers" forcing Orange Glorious to fecklessly engage in a tit-for-tat with a Gold Star family when he should've used that post-convention "bump" to convey his policy positions?  Are "anti-Trumpers" forcing him to avoid setting up field offices in Virginia and North Carolina?  Are "anti-Trumpers" causing Trump to wait until 81 days out from Election Day and four weeks out from the start of early voting to run his first set of TV and radio ads?  Is it the responsibility of "anti-Trumpers" that 48 hours can't elapse before your boy starts blathering mindlessly and gaffeing about everything from "not forgiving voters" to "not needing to get out the vote?"

WE warned YOU and those like you about Trump and the fact he is horrendously unqualified for the office of President.  WE warned YOU and those like you he did not have a command of the majority of the general electorate like he did the plurality of GOP voters who aligned with strategically voting democrat crossovers.  WE warned YOU and those like you that Trump, with his background, was a target-rich environment for the Clintons.  WE  warned YOU Trump was unelectable... and YOU deign to blame US? 

So save the pontifications and use this time to reflect on the gross error YOU made by nominating someone who never had a possibility of winning in the first place, and by all indications, is perfectly fine with finishing in second place.

[Night Hides Not]

For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that Donald Trump is what the small but obsessive, increasingly deracinated, band of “never Trumpers” says he is.  He’s not a “movement conservative” – true.   He’s often crass and vulgar – true.  His quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy often get him into trouble –also true.  "Words matter" they remind him, while calling him a “witless ape,” a “white nationalist,” and -- most childishly -- a "turd-tornado," who’s “dark,”  “condescending,” and a “lunatic,” to list some of the more printable epithets in the conservative press. (You can find plenty of the unprintables here, at Diana West's "Trump lexicon" link.)

Okay.  Therefore… what?

Remember that his opponent in this fall’s presidential election is former secretary of state Hillary Clinton – a woman so breathtakingly corrupt and at the same time so unaccountably privileged that FBI Director James Comey practically indicted her on national television, and then declined to prosecute over her unauthorized and leaky private email server. As a profile in cowardice, Comey is tough to beat.

snip...

https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2016/08/17/the-moral-cowardice-of-the-nevertrumpumpkins/

Taking a page from BG McAuliffe at Bastogne:

NUTS!!!

[Axel]

That's because Democrats always play to their base.

Maybe... Just maybe, Republicans should mimic Democrats.... Yes, yes, I know... They already are - Just look at what they offer as a candidate... But I mean in a different way.

Maybe Republicans should offer their base what they want, like the Democrats do. They might find out they'll win.

In the mean time, I will remain Conservative and vote for Conservatives.  All this whining and crying and pitching a fit won't change that.

Except the Dem base wanted Bernie Sanders, but they're quickly lining up behind Hillary Clinton nonetheless. The Republicans on the other hand can't agree on anything, which is par for the course. Still, to suggest that the base didn't nominate Trump is not consistent with reality. Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative. You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

[Night Hides Not]

I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Apologies for diverting from the message of the thread, but market forces are in the process of ending Obamacare. Don't forget that the most pernicious parts of Obamacare don't go into effect until next year.

Whoever wins will not enjoy any honeymoon, nor a mandate. I'm more worried about the snakes in Congress with an "R" after their names than I am of Hillary.

[Free Vulcan]

If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.

Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...

[ScottinVA]

Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...

Ditto here.  I can still be persuaded by Trump to vote for him.  But to actually GAIN my vote, he must show he DESERVES it.  I would never cast a vote for Her Infernal Malevolence, but I sure as hell am over casting a vote for someone simply because he/she is the "lesser of two evils."  That doesn't cut it anymore.  So, impress me, Trump.   

[catfish1957]

Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...

On day one he announced, at FR I very strongly stated that this fool was a liberal Trojan Horse who was duping anyone stupid enough to buy off on his Snake Oil.  Even then he was 17th out of 17 in the field in my picks of preference.  One and a half notches below Kasich.

I plea to the RNC......

(1) Invoke Rule 9, and replace Trump or....
(2) Funnel every single cent of GOP money to battleground races for the senate and house, so we can fight Hitlerly until 2018, and 2020.

[Axel]

WE warned YOU and those like you about Trump and the fact he is horrendously unqualified for the office of President.  WE warned YOU and those like you he did not have a command of the majority of the general electorate like he did the plurality of GOP voters who aligned with strategically voting democrat crossovers.  WE warned YOU and those like you that Trump, with his background, was a target-rich environment for the Clintons.  WE  warned YOU Trump was unelectable... and YOU deign to blame US? 

So save the pontifications and use this time to reflect on the gross error YOU made by nominating someone who never had a possibility of winning in the first place, and by all indications, is perfectly fine with finishing in second place.

lol, you're trying to make it all so personal. I wasn't even a part of this forum, so you hardly warned ME. I also never said your vote wasn't important or needed.

Here's a great idea. I'll add you to my  list of people to ignore,  and you do the same.

[ScottinVA]

lol, you're trying to make it all so personal. I wasn't even a part of this forum, so you hardly warned ME. I also never said your vote wasn't important or needed.

Here's a great idea. I'll add you to my  list of people to ignore,  and you do the same.

"YOU" in a general sense... as a group.  And I did not say YOU specifically said my vote wasn't important or needed.  What you specifically DID do however, was to impugn those who have doubts about Trump, his ability to lead, his ever-shifting policy positions, his intentions to win and his ability to win.

Put me on ignore?  Hey, go for it.  Great tool there, no?

[Night Hides Not]

Ditto here.  I can still be persuaded by Trump to vote for him.  But to actually GAIN my vote, he must show he DESERVES it.  I would never cast a vote for Her Infernal Malevolence, but I sure as hell am over casting a vote for someone simply because he/she is the "lesser of two evils."  That doesn't cut it anymore.  So, impress me, Trump.

Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?

[INVAR]

Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative.

Then you should haven problem "winning" the White House for your prince.

You do not need the likes of us, just as your prince and his Militants have told principled Conservatives repeatedly early on in this campaign.

So stop attempting to shame and ridicule us into supporting that which is anathema to us.

You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

We don't care. 

We do not live by Mordor -At-The-Potomac's leave.

We have other plans.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

We see Trump as inherently more or equally dangerous as The Mao Pantsuit.

Thus the abstention.

We have other plans.

[catfish1957]

Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?

Asking and getting maturity are miles  apart in the world and psyche of DJT.  Al the dims have to do between now and November is continually bait him into gaffes, and it will be a cake walk.  Trump is physically incapable of extracting his foot from his mouth.

[ScottinVA]

Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?

Considering Trump's penchant for childish behavior.. that'd impress me.

[musiclady]

I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Trump supports Obamacare.......... actually worse.

And that doesn't bother you??

Perhaps the "self-righteousness" is with the crowd that refuses to see the truth in front of them and hangs on to their own version of reality.

[Night Hides Not]

Asking and getting maturity are miles  apart in the world and psyche of DJT.  Al the dims have to do between now and November is continually bait him into gaffes, and it will be a cake walk.  Trump is physically incapable of extracting his foot from his mouth.

With FDR, the nation heard "Fireside Chats".

With Trump, the nation will get daily/weekly "Twitter Wars", courtesy of a man with access to the nuclear football.

[catfish1957]

With Trump, the nation will get daily/weekly "Twitter Wars."

And in those wars Trump's record is about as good as the Chicago Cubs during the past 108 years.

[Axel]

So stop attempting to shame and ridicule us into supporting that which is anathema to us.

I'm going to continue to post my opinion, and I don't care if you like it. Ignore me if you want.

[Taxcontrol]

Therefore ... What?


Therefore I can't in good conscience vote for him.  He has poisoned the well with is lying and name calling and attacks on good conservatives.  He sided with the GOPe against the TeaParty and conservatives.  When he had the opportunity to mend fences, he doubled down and added insult to injury.  He says he does not need conservatives and we know that the GOPe does not like conservatives.  Fine, go ahead and win without us.  I am going to go and build a place where conservatives  are wanted, their ideas and ideals are respected.

The new "home" that I found is with the Constitution Party.  Gone is the will to work within the GOP to try and change the party.  I soldiered for over 20 years in the GOP, manning phone banks, and even serving as a Precinct Captain.  No longer. The GOP is part of the problem.  Good bye and good riddance.

[roamer_1]

Except the Dem base wanted Bernie Sanders, but they're quickly lining up behind Hillary Clinton nonetheless.

Sure they'll vote for her - Granted she ain't anywhere  near as far left as Bernie, But the far left will still get plenty of what they are there for.

Tell me - What has the far right been given since Reagan, or even the 94 congress?

The Republicans on the other hand can't agree on anything, which is par for the course.

Baloney. They all pay lip service to Reagan... They're all true blue conservatives in the election season. They all cry out for Conservatism... Then once they get elected, they go to DC, and DO the opposite.

Still, to suggest that the base didn't nominate Trump is not consistent with reality. Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative.

And that's why Trump is barely ahead in places like Georgia... And Utah.... Bullcrap.
Btw, to date, I still only know three people IRL that will vote for Trump. Three. I knew about a dozen that would vote for Romney... And I ain't alone, by any means.

You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

And if I vote for NY liberalism, I get nothing anyway... Thanks all the same, but I'll vote for the Conservative. At least that way, I'll get some satisfaction... And who knows... Enough of all y'all start standing up for what you believe in, and vote Castle, we might even get a real win.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

Meh. I reject the lesser evil meme. That is  what has got us here. Real change comes from insistence upon Conservative statesmen, and I will only vote for Conservatives from this day until the day I die. The liberal lying GOP can go screw.

[truth_seeker]

I won't enjoy any of that, not one bit.  But I'm still going to do the right thing.   

This is the choice folks like you have given us, TS.  I don't like it;  I fought the good fight to prevent it, in large part because I know Clinton's every bit as corrupt and despicable as you say she is.

 But, as of right now, she's the only one left with the means to defeat Trump.   

Dude, I voted in California, not Pennsylvania. It was settled by California June 7th.

You should more appropriately focus your disdain on your fellow Pennsylvanian Republican primary voters, who gave the win to Trump with 56.7% versus runner up Cruz, with just 21.6%. Trump won every Penn county, by the way.

You and "folks like you" failed. Failed to sell your candidates in YOUR STATE on April 16th when the national race was not settled.

I decided early on that Trump was the only candidate showing enough metabolism and fight, to defeat a democrat this time. I still do.

So keep on defending your support for Hillary, your oft stated intention or willingness to vote for her. "Folks like you" fall into a category on this site, as phony "conservatives" because you take the liberal side of most topics.

Your moderate GOP Establishment is so inept, it got started with 17 candidates, and it was downhill from there. Let me know when you have a plan for ANYTHING, which brings about better border security, better immigration screening, etc.

Keep right on talking down to Trump supporters. But realize this: You cannot win anything, anywhere without them.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania