Author Topic: Trump before classified briefing: I don’t trust US intel and won't use them  (Read 8642 times)

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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@Oceander

Thanks so much, now I see him in briefs - Let me put acid in my eyes.

He's going to need fresh ones by the looks of the picture guitar4jesus posted.  I always think it looks like he should be on the pot.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline R4 TrumPence

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 :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :odrama:


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Offline Smokin Joe

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No, not at all, loser.

By the way, now that you lost the republican primaries, Ted, I want to thank you for your full-throated endorsement of the GOP nominee, Donald Trump. ...What's that? You didn't endorse the nominee of your party? #NeverMindLoser....
Should Cruz endorse a serial liar who maligned him, his wife, and his family when to do so would be to approve of those lies? Not only no, but Hell no!

If Cruz HAD endorsed Trump, Trump would not get my vote, anyway, but my opinion of Cruz would have gone downhill, too.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 10:27:48 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Oceander

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:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :odrama:

Mostly the squealing from the little trumpkins; still can't get over the fact their "orange brick road" leads straight to perdition.

Offline Rivergirl

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Agent Orange will be appointing Ivanka as head of the NSA.  She, who didn't know enough to register as a republican to vote in the Republican primary in NYC.

Oceander

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Agent Orange will be appointing Ivanka as head of the NSA.  She, who didn't know enough to register as a republican to vote in the Republican primary in NYC.

That, or Chris Christie.  After all, when you're a god, who better to have around you than corpulent yes-men.

Offline Smokin Joe

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That, or Chris Christie.  After all, when you're a god, who better to have around you than corpulent yes-men.
I think those were cherubs. Envisioning Chris Christie as a cherub is cause for eyewash for the mind's eye.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Oceander

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I think those were cherubs. Envisioning Chris Christie as a cherub is cause for eyewash for the mind's eye.

What has been seen cannot be unseen, eh?   :silly:

Offline Smokin Joe

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During an interview aired on “Fox and Friends” Wednesday morning, Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, was asked whether he “trusts intelligence.”

“Not so much from the people that have been doing it for our country,” Trump responded. “I mean, look what’s happened over the last 10 years. … It’s been catastrophic.

“Very easy to use them, but I won't use them, because they’ve made such bad decisions,” he said, pointing to apparent intelligence failures ahead of the United States's 2003 invasion of Iraq. At the time, George W. Bush administration officials appeared convinced that Saddam Hussein’s government was creating weapons of mass destruction, though that was not the case.

“If we would have never touched it, it would have been a lot better,” Trump said.
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I'm still trying to figure out what he said that was so terribly wrong in this statement. He's right. If the politicians are telling the truth, which is doubtful, but if they did base their decisions on intelligence provided to them, then the intelligence was obviously wrong.

Just take a quick look around the world to see if Trump is right or wrong.

Also, Obama is absolutely famous for never or rarely going to intel briefings. So, Trump would only be following the precedent of Obama. It would not be anything new.

But, don't let logic or facts stand in the way of hating Trump.

NeverTrump forever!
Even if Trump loses the election I will still hate him with the fire of a thousand suns until the very second that I die, and then I will hate him from my grave. I hate him not for any specific reason. I hate him for the very fact that he exists in this world, and ever dared to run for President. I hate him, his family, his friends, his supporters, and everybody who he has ever known. He is a vile, disgusting pig of a man, with tiny hands, and orange skin. He deserves the wrath of hell for ever taking his first breath of air, and I will despise his soul until my last breath of air. My last breath of air is a very special one. For that is the breath I have reserved to curse Trump with as I go.
The question isn't one of whether the intel was correct, necessarily, but whether it was acted on and how. The tradition of incompetence of the DOS and The CinC are the stuff of legend, and not just in this matter (See also: Bay of Pigs). They can have the best intel in the world, and it can be 99.999% accurate, but if the information is left unused or misused, the result will be the same as bad intel, competently acted upon.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline r9etb

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not

Whew... thanks.  That was a pretty egregious oversight on my part.

Offline Smokin Joe

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What has been seen cannot be unseen, eh?   :silly:
Pretty rough... **nononono*
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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I find it hard to believe those numbers are accurate @Sanguine.

If Cruz ended his campaign with $20 million then he didn't try as hard as he could have.

I can see ending in the black, but not by that much.

Now, that's funny!  So, it wouldn't have mattered what the number would have been, the result would have been some criticism from you.  Got it.  Too much, too little, too warm, too cold, no just leave it alone and admit you were wrong, huh?

Offline Smokin Joe

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What was wrong with Trump’s statement?

What was wrong with it is that he just insulted everyone (“the people that have been doing it for our country”) working in the intelligence community. These people include those working in both military and non-military agencies. FWIW over the years, I’ve known some people who work or have worked for some of those agencies and I find Trump’s comments insulting to those good people.

If Trump had said something along the lines of “we need to improve our intelligence gathering, improve our ability to share and interpret gathered by and across multiple agencies, perhaps consolidate intelligence gathering to fewer agencies in order to get a clearer picture and make better decisions based on that intelligence”, I would not necessarily disagree.

But no. Instead he implies, and makes his statement even before having received his first intelligence briefing or ever having gotten one, that the intelligence community as a whole has been wrong – “It’s been catastrophic.”

He misplaces blame on the intelligence community as a whole when it should be placed on those who have made bad political decisions regardless of what the intel said. 

And as to Trump’s statement “Very easy to use them, but I won't use them, because they’ve made such bad decisions,” that begs the question as to just who Trump will use? He may certainly make appointments and his own appointments to the President's Intelligence Advisory Board (PIAB) but to make such a broad statement as to him disregarding security briefings because he doesn’t trust them shows both a (and as previously documented) contempt for anyone that Trump perceives as being “smarter” than he is and a very dangerous mindset.

It isn't so much up to the agencies to make the decisions, but to provide the intel, assess its reliability, weight it, and when called for, interpret it. The 'decisions' are made at a different pay grade.
Remember that this is the man who said; “I know more about ISIS than the generals”, who accused U.S. troops of stealing money in Iraq, said that avoiding STD’s in the late 70’s and early 80’s was like his own personal Viet Nam, that he always wanted to get a Purple Heart, said with respect to POW’s “I like people who were not captured”, and that attending a toney military school for rich kids was just like going to West Point or having served in the military.  But he loves him some the “veterans” and wants to build up our military and use our military to wipe out ISIS and based on some previous comments, use them to confiscate oil and other assets from nations or territories we defeat, use torcher and seek out and kill all the families of terrorists …..

<snip>
It wasn't that Clinton and Obama didn't know what was going on, it's that we don't. I am convinced there was something going on behind Benghazi that got FUBAR'd and that Americans, including an Ambassador were killed as a result. That they did not act to bring in air and other assets to rescue our people on the ground speaks volumes, but also says there is much more to this than the well polished BS the American people have been presented.

That, however, was not the fault of the people gathering information, but the fault of the people acting on it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Night Hides Not

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The question isn't one of whether the intel was correct, necessarily, but whether it was acted on and how. The tradition of incompetence of the DOS and The CinC are the stuff of legend, and not just in this matter (See also: Bay of Pigs). They can have the best intel in the world, and it can be 99.999% accurate, but if the information is left unused or misused, the result will be the same as bad intel, competently acted upon.

The quality of intel is fine. It's what the DC & WH politicians and perfumed princes and princesses at the Pentagon do with it...that's the problem!
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

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The quality of intel is fine. It's what the DC & WH politicians and perfumed princes and princesses at the Pentagon do with it...that's the problem!

goopo

Offline Smokin Joe

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The quality of intel is fine. It's what the DC & WH politicians and perfumed princes and princesses at the Pentagon do with it...that's the problem!
IMHO, the Bush Administration was not emphatic enough about WMDs found, nor the likely exit of more of the same to Syria and the Bekaa Valley http://worldtribune.com/worldtribune/wmd.asp http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/ https://pjmedia.com/blog/satellite-photos-support-testimony-that-iraqi-wmd-went-to-syria/ possibly via Russian convoy in the runup to the Iraq war. I think some of what is going on with the Russians and Syria may have something to do with those weapons and their disposition.

When the SOS and CinC can watch in real time as our people on the ground fight it out with terrorists and not authorize air support or a rescue mission, the intel wasn't the problem, something else was. Somewhere behind the scenes there was a reason for NOT authorizing a rescue mission, and there is likely to be found the most foul aspect of the entire situation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Texas Yellow Rose

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No, not at all, loser.

By the way, now that you lost the republican primaries, Ted, I want to thank you for your full-throated endorsement of the GOP nominee, Donald Trump. ...What's that? You didn't endorse the nominee of your party? #NeverMindLoser....

Maybe you missed Trump's announcement that he didn't want or need Ted's endorsement. 
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-clinton-vp-rnc-trump-says-he-doesn-t-want-and-wouldn-t-1469204773-htmlstory.html



Offline catfish1957

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No, not at all, loser.

By the way, now that you lost the republican primaries, Ted, I want to thank you for your full-throated endorsement of the GOP nominee, Donald Trump. ...What's that? You didn't endorse the nominee of your party? #NeverMindLoser....

Sure hope you hang around November 10th to show us how  big a "NON-Loser" tRump is  when he fails to get 100 EV's.

Loser.....
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline aligncare

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Sure hope you hang around November 10th to show us how  big a "NON-Loser" tRump is  when he fails to get 100 EV's.

Loser.....

I think you guys are actually starting to believe your own false narratives....

Just a little friendly advice. Beware of echo chambers. The so-called "facts" y'all bounce around here mostly fail to stand up to scrutiny. But, you wouldn't notice. You're too busy hating on Donald Trump.  :laugh:


Offline sinkspur

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I think you guys are actually starting to believe your own false narratives....

Just a little friendly advice. Beware of echo chambers. The so-called "facts" y'all bounce around here mostly fail to stand up to scrutiny. But, you wouldn't notice. You're too busy hating on Donald Trump.  :laugh:

Which facts?  You never argue facts, you never present facts. 

If you don't believe the polls, these are the same polls that your boy spent six months touting in the primaries.

Now, when he's losing, they all suck.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline catfish1957

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Which facts?  You never argue facts, you never present facts. 

If you don't believe the polls, these are the same polls that your boy spent six months touting in the primaries.

Now, when he's losing, they all suck.

Amen, the one single dimensional argument these tRumpsters have is that Trump is not Hitlerly.  They don't even try to explain his Idocracy anymore.

When in essence he is more like her, than not.

Ted Cruz 2020.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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@Oceander

Thanks so much, now I see him in briefs - Let me put acid in my eyes.

@Victoria33
@Oceander









Wingnut

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I think you guys are actually starting to believe your own false narratives....

Just a little friendly advice. Beware of echo chambers. The so-called "facts" y'all bounce around here mostly fail to stand up to scrutiny. But, you wouldn't notice. You're too busy hating on Donald Trump.  :laugh:

Our bad.  I forgot One simply does not speak ill of the Orange God.  Only goodly words, the best words and adulation's may be directed at he who is Called The Trump.  All others shall be dispatched with great zeal.

Offline Longmire

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So, it wouldn't have mattered what the number would have been, the result would have been some criticism from you.  Got it.  Too much, too little, too warm, too cold, no just leave it alone and admit you were wrong, huh?

How can you be wrong for asking a question and then expressing some doubt about the accuracy of the answer?  :shrug: