Finally. A normal level-headed question/response.
#NeverTrump as established by the GOPe was severely damaged by the Trump nomination. I doubt there are many people who would debate this.
Well, I don't consider myself part of a movement. If I were the last person who wouldn't vote for Trump, I would be fine with it. I consider it a personal, moral decision which affects both me and my country.
But the GOPe didn't establish #NeverTrump. It began when Erick Erickson and a group of concerned conservatives met in March at the Army and Navy Club for a discussion on whether Donald could be stopped. Shortly after that, Erickson began selling "#NeverTrump" bumperstickers on his site, The Resurgent.
However, the Hillary campaign seeing this smoldering volcano of self righteous indignation, jumped right in to fill the gap. And now, whether they know it or not, many of the original NeverTrumps, who started with the goal of denying Trump the nomination, are acting as a part of the Hillary campaign.
But see, accusations of self-righteousness usually come from someone whose conscience is being needled.
Naturally Hillary jumped in to fill the gap. Why wouldn't she? When the GOP nominated Trump, it ceded the moral high ground.
NeverTrump, having failed at what they were formed to do, have been sucked into the Hillary campaign and are now working for her, in that they are working against Trump and for nobody at all. This obsessive campaigning against Trump can only, only, only result in bolstering the Hillary candidacy. Those who claim not to see this, are being dishonest with themselves and with us. IMO
No, I'm sorry, that's just silly, and completely wrong. Erick Erickson and Ben Shapiro put out as much if not more #NeverHillary material as they do #NeverTrump. If a conservative decides to vote for Hillary instead of Trump, I don't understand it, because they're both cut from the same liberal cloth.
Why do you call it obsessive, though? We're in the last three months of a campaign and Trump's mouth is all over the place. Do you expect conservatives to ignore him when he makes a fool of himself?
Nothing we do can affect this election. The #NeverTrumpers and the Trump fans are both largely preaching to the choir. Your problem, as a Trump supporter, is the general electorate. Most people just don't like him. His numbers haven't improved and in fact have dropped. He isn't making an effort to appeal to anyone outside of his core fanbase.
Let me amend that---your problem is the general electorate, AND Trump himself. Maybe instead of trying to convince us to support him you should be directing your efforts toward convincing him to act like a halfway normal human being.
As you have indicated, the NeverTrump 'movement' as it was at the outset (Kristol, et al) is more or less defunct, and will have little influence on the outcome. However, the NeverTrump diehards who have been conscripted into the Hillary campaign, may have a disproportional amount of influence by giving the apolitical masses the impression that not only the GOPe elites hate Trump (and they hate Cruz as well, btw), but that everyone hates Trump, including the very Republicans who nominated him. Which is what they want to do.
No one's been "conscripted into the Hillary campaign." Like I said, if the odd conservative here or there votes for her, I think it's a mistake and I would never do it, but in the end, there's nothing we can do about it. We should have run a better candidate. We ought to be running away with this election, and the fact that we aren't is because people wouldn't listen to reason. They insisted on nominating that amoral, miserably ignorant clown.
The guilt lies with them, and no one else. You don't nominate a lifelong liberal, expect conservatives to support him, and then get upset when we won't.
You're right that the GOP establishment hates Cruz, but they hate him for the right reasons. They dislike Trump because he's a joke and he makes their party a laughingstock. They know that, on the slim chance he gets in, he'll schmooze right along with them; he's a lifelong establishment insider himself.
Everyone pretty much does dislike Trump; they don't need to be convinced. The polls are pretty clear.
If the NeverTrump movement were what they say they are, they would have little influence. However, now that they have morphed over into a campaigning arm for the Clinton Presidency, now they, combined with the media and everything else, could leverage the outcome by a few percentage points. And that, would be enough to make President Hillary a reality.
I don't particularly care what they do. Everyone has their own perspective and interests. It is the dishonesty of the maneuver that irks me.
Well, I've addressed that, so I won't again, but if Trump is going to win, he's going to need a lot more than just a few percentage points. Right now it's looking like he's going to get run over.
It is a pleasure to discuss this with you, CatherineofArago. I hope we will have an opportunity to speak again soon.
Well, I thank you for the kind words, although I don't know if you still feel that way, lol.
