In March 2007 Trump told CNN the US should "declare victory and leave" Iraq

[sinkspur]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/16/sitroom.03.html

In March 2007 Trump told CNN the US should "declare victory and leave" Iraq

[sinkspur]

So much for Trump's trashing Obama for leaving Iraq.  He wanted us out FIVE YEARS EARLIER.

[sinkspur]

So would Bush have been the founder of ISIS if Bush had listened to Trump?

[Gov Bean Counter]

Saying he is dumber that spit would be an insult to spit.

[cato potatoe]

Let's hope he does the same thing with his campaign, within the next 3 weeks. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

This isn't an entirely fair argument against Trump.

March 2007 was pre-surge, we were losing a lot of troops, and victory of any kind in Iraq looked unattainable.  So at that point, withdrawing was not an unreasonable option, even among many in the military.

In contrast, Obama (who opposed the surge) was faced with an entirely different question.  At that point, the surge was successful (despite the predictions of many in the military itself), casualties had dropped precipitously, and Iraq looked well on its way to being able to hang on.  We were just needed there to preserve that very hard-won victory.  And when Obama made the decision to withdraw completely, almost nobody supported that idea, particularly within the military.  It appeared to be, and was, an horrible mistake.

To put it differently, Trump advocated snatching defeat from the jaws of defeat.  Obama snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[sinkspur]

This isn't an entirely fair argument against Trump.

March 2007 was pre-surge, we were losing a lot of troops, and victory of any kind in Iraq looked unattainable.  So at that point, withdrawing was not an unreasonable option, even among many in the military.

In contrast, Obama (who opposed the surge) was faced with an entirely different question.  The surge was successful, casualties had dropped precipitously, and Iraq looked well on its way to being able to hang on.  We were just needed there to preserve that very hard-won victory.  And when Obama made the decision to withdraw completely, almost nobody supported that idea, particularly within the military.  It appeared to be, and was, an horrible mistake.

To put it differently, Trump advocated snatching defeat from the jaws of defeat.  Obama snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

The surge had already been proposed and it was clear Bush was going to do it.  Trump took the same line Harry Reid took (naturally, since Trump was a Democrat at the time).  So it's perfectly fair to point out Trump's hypocrisy. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The surge had already been proposed and it was clear Bush was going to do it. 

That's true.  But it had not yet been implemented/succeeded.

Trump took the same line Harry Reid took (naturally, since Trump was a Democrat at the time).

You could just as truthfully say that he was taking the same line as the Joint Chiefs and a lot of Republicans, because they were against it too.  Bush really was going against the majority of opinion in going ahead with the surge.  If you don't see withdrawing when things look horrible as different from withdrawing when victory has been achieved and stability only is required, fine.  But it is a distinction nonetheless.

[Suppressed]

You could just as truthfully say that he was taking the same line as the Joint Chiefs and a lot of Republicans, because they were against it too.

But that's a distraction from the main point, that he criticized someone else for something he advocated himself.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

But that's a distraction from the main point, that he criticized someone else for something he advocated himself.

The circumstances were significantly different, so it was not the same thing.  If you want to compare apples to apples, fund a quote of Trump supporting the withdrawal in 2011.  Otherwise, we're talking about two different decisions made 4 years apart.

[Suppressed]

The circumstances were significantly different, so it was not the same thing.  If you want to compare apples to apples, fund a quote of Trump supporting the withdrawal in 2011.  Otherwise, we're talking about two different decisions made 4 years apart.

You believe that staying in from 2007 to 2011 led to the creation of ISIS?

Or would ISIS have been created if we'd pulled out in 2007?

If the latter, then the timing is irrelevant.