What forms of taxation are justified if any?

[Fantom]

LOL, pegged it, we have a prog/moveon member.

[mirraflake]

Seems the world is overflowing with people the USDA does not protect.

That alone speaks to it's efficacy.

In fact...https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

Death rate USA 8.15 deaths/1,000 population (2015 est.)   Death Rate India 7.32 deaths/1,000 population (2015 est.)

I knew your US vs India stat was full of crap:

From the site:  This indicator is significantly affected by age distribution, and most countries will eventually show a rise in the overall death rate, in spite of continued decline in mortality at all ages, as declining fertility results in an aging population.

I'll translate..we are not having any babies and India is poppin them out like skittles..that is why the death rate in the US is higher than India..

@Fantom

[mirraflake]

LOL, pegged it, we have a prog/moveon member.

I would rather live in Detroit than India any day (as an average citizen)  The rich people in India have it made..the rest it sucks.

@Fantom

[Fantom]

I knew your US vs India stat was full of crap:

From the site:  This indicator is significantly affected by age distribution, and most countries will eventually show a rise in the overall death rate, in spite of continued decline in mortality at all ages, as declining fertility results in an aging population.


@Fantom

No need for your translation. LOL

And all that without the USDA in all those "other" countries.

Imagine that. 

[Fantom]

I would rather live in Detroit than India any day (as an average citizen)  The rich people in India have it made..the rest it sucks.

@Fantom

Getting back on topic.. pay for what government you want yourself.

Only military and a few other aspects of government should be paid for with a very broad based tax, the rest should be paid for by use taxes.

It is not anti-government..that is leftist/moveon slander... it is limited government and freedom.

[mirraflake]

No need for your translation. LOL

And all that without the USDA in all those "other" countries.

Imagine that.

No, I proved your stat was bogus.

Why do the western countries have the highest rates of citizenship satisfaction? 

Name me one country with very limited gov't you would want to live in? Name me one.. a country with no USDA/safety net/ regulation  type programs some of you folks want to  want to eliminate and go back to the states.

Do it,  name it.

@Fantom

[NavyCanDo]

The IF ANY, leaves the door wide open for anarchist on the Left, and wackadoodles on the far far right, who are barely distinguishable the anarchist as far as their respect for a Constitutional Government and laws passed. And both would say no taxes ever. 

Of course some taxes and how they are spent are justified and supported by the Constitution. Though we seem powerless against the Federal tax going up or down, State, County, and Municipal level taxes voters have a lot of power over - and sadly voters are stupid. Here in Seattle voters haven't met a tax increase they didn't like. They just keep passing every proposition involving a tax increase that comes along.  So the "justified" portion of your question falls on deaf ears. 

[Fantom]

No, I proved your stat was bogus.

Why do the western countries have the highest rates of citizenship satisfaction? 

Name me one country with very limited gov't you would want to live in? Name me one.. a country with no USDA/safety net/ regulation  type programs some of you folks want to  want to eliminate and go back to the states.

Do it,  name it.

@Fantom

Actually, you proved yourself bogus.

As for your chalange....

Here...but I pretty much ignore your government god.  Here because it is where I am at, not that your government god has made it better.

This is my country, and I will fight you moveon/progs to the death for it.

Capish?

[Fantom]

The IF ANY, leaves the door wide open for anarchist on the Left, and wackadoodles on the far far right, who are barely distinguishable the anarchist as far as their respect for a Constitutional Government and laws passed. And both would say no taxes ever. 

Of course some taxes and how they are spent are justified and supported by the Constitution. Though we seem powerless against the Federal tax going up or down, State, County, and Municipal level taxes voters have a lot of power over - and sadly voters are stupid. Here in Seattle voters haven't met a tax increase they didn't like. They just keep passing every proposition involving a tax increase that comes along.  So the "justified" portion of your question falls on deaf ears.

Seattle huh, I do feel sorry for you. Could be worse.. Like Portland. 

Closest I got to Seattle was Snow Lake.

[NavyCanDo]

Seattle huh, I do feel sorry for you. Could be worse.. Like Portland. 

Closest I got to Seattle was Snow Lake.

I live on the other side of Lake Washington, the more conservative side. Seattle's taxes don't effect us.

[EC]

Death rate USA 8.15 deaths/1,000 population (2015 est.)   Death Rate India 7.32 deaths/1,000 population (2015 est.)

Life Expectancy USA: 78.74 years (2012)

Life Expectancy India: 66.21 years (2012)

[Bigun]

The IF ANY, leaves the door wide open for anarchist on the Left, and wackadoodles on the far far right, who are barely distinguishable the anarchist as far as their respect for a Constitutional Government and laws passed. And both would say no taxes ever. 

Of course some taxes and how they are spent are justified and supported by the Constitution. Though we seem powerless against the Federal tax going up or down, State, County, and Municipal level taxes voters have a lot of power over - and sadly voters are stupid. Here in Seattle voters haven't met a tax increase they didn't like. They just keep passing every proposition involving a tax increase that comes along.  So the "justified" portion of your question falls on deaf ears.

Just spent a few days in Seattle. Enjoyed the weather immensely but otherwise didn't care for it that much.  But I would say that about almost any big city.
 

[Fantom]

Life Expectancy USA: 78.74 years (2012)

Life Expectancy India: 66.21 years (2012)

And yet a lower death rate.

I am glad you brought that up.  Seems if the USDA was so great, maybe people would not die so much?

Point being, death comes to us all, if they die so young in India.... would not the death rate be higher than where we live so long with the USDA?

[goodwithagun]

More complicated society today. Everything you needed back then you bought locally.

Back in the founders days we did not buy presciption drugs from China or do commerce with numerous countries. We did not buy cows from other countries that may have mad cow disease.

We need  a federal USDA and other groups to keep and eye out for the American people.

And before you say let the states do it my wife and own 3 companies and we live right on the border of another state and the state regulation between the two are  nearly totally different.

@IsailedawayfromFR

But our modern society has ways of making things simpler, it's just that tax and spend politicians don't want to use them. For example, we could send Congress home. Sell their offices and equipment to a college, university, or business. Make the Capitol building a museum/tourist site that keeps itself open through revenue. All Congressional communication can be done via modern telecommunication.

Chinese drugs and imported mad cow would disappear if taxes were drastically reduced. We could afford to purchase American things again without the tax burden on every single step of production, and the tax burden on our pay checks.

[Fantom]

I live on the other side of Lake Washington, the more conservative side. Seattle's taxes don't effect us.

Not sure where that is, I spent 8 months working in Spokane and near Kahlotus. Over in the Western part. I did go hiking to Snow Lake a few days.

Had no interest in seeing Seattle..not my People.

[Bigun]

But our modern society has ways of making things simpler, it's just that tax and spend politicians don't want to use them. For example, we could send Congress home. Sell their offices and equipment to a college, university, or business. Make the Capitol building a museum/tourist site that keeps itself open through revenue. All Congressional communication can be done via modern telecommunication.

Chinese drugs and imported mad cow would disappear if taxes were drastically reduced. We could afford to purchase American things again without the tax burden on every single step of production, and the tax burden on our pay checks.

 

[Fantom]

But I would say that about almost any big city.

Right.   

I can do the Big cities.. but I prefer the places in betwixt.

[Sanguine]

I vehemently oppose income taxes.  Taxing the very idea of obtaining wealth and improving the capital of the nation.

Me too.  In fact, I don't think it's the business of the federal government to know what I make or how I make it. 

[EC]

And yet a lower death rate.

I am glad you brought that up.  Seems if the USDA was so great, maybe people would not die so much?

Point being, death comes to us all, if they die so young in India.... would not the death rate be higher than where we live so long with the USDA?

India didn't have the post war baby boom, so there isn't a significantly larger than average number now in their late 60s. Death rate per thousand is a decent basic measure, but what is the breakdown in terms of age? You'll find the curve for the US population is massively skewed to the older end of the spectrum right now in comparison to India.

[Bigun]

Me too.  In fact, I don't think it's the business of the federal government to know what I make or how I make it.

It shouldn't be any of their business! NONE what-so-ever!

At the risk of repeating myself again:

We will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we continue to abide the MARXIST income tax and the IRS! 

http://fairtax.org

[Sanguine]

........

Here is what limited gov't get's you. A friend on FB just came back  from India doing missionary work for 8 weeks. This is what much of the country looks like or nearly like.. A small segment of society is doing fine..the rest..just well sucks. (not her photo). Sorry I will stick to a larger gov't like we have  in the US rather than helter skelter though I think many gov't agnecies could be downsized and less laws.

@Fantom

....

Prosperity gets rid of things like that, not big government!  And, that includes child labor.  If mom and pop can feed the family on their own earnings, they don't send the youngsters out to toil in the coal mines. 

[Fantom]

India didn't have the post war baby boom, so there isn't a significantly larger than average number now in their late 60s. Death rate per thousand is a decent basic measure, but what is the breakdown in terms of age? You'll find the curve for the US population is massively skewed to the older end of the spectrum right now in comparison to India.

That was what Flake tried to bring up. Disparate age. Of course the comment came from my CIA link .. a .gov source that has been owned by obama for 8 years.

And even that source credited age.. not the USDA(government) as the reason for diferant death rates.

I think maybe that is wrong.

As polluted as India is, they still die less than us.. dying at 40 does not effect the death rate anymore than dying at 74. See where I am coming from?

Now the stat on life expectancy is likely due to first world medical care more than envionmental factors of an USDA.

Still, none of that is my central argument. Nor the focus of this thread. Flack can have his USDA, and can pay the taxes for it via direct costs on the products carrying the USDA label. And those who wish to buy unpasteurized milk from a local dairy can do so.

In a free country.

We all win.

[Fantom]

Prosperity gets rid of things like that, not big government!  And, that includes child labor.  If mom and pop can feed the family on their own earnings, they don't send the youngsters out to toil in the coal mines.

Right, if government regulation was the answer... there would not be child labor in China...opps.

[geronl]

And we would have the size of gubberment we would get from that rate.

How much tax would the black market pay?  ^-^

[Fantom]

How much tax would the black market pay?  ^-^

Well......

I choose to drink a fifth on that one. I mean I lost my guns in a boating accident ... 'Er.