Odyssey of a NeverTrumper

[don-o]

I don't know, are you double dipping? ;)

Seriously, if you are over-indulging, like I have a tendency to do, then yes, I would say it is a moral decision with respect to how God wants us to live.

I maintain that the moral aspect is the act of eating. Eating is not evil. It is a spiritual danger, imo, in trying to make every decision into a moral choice. Perhaps do some thinking about scrupulosity.

This is for the discussion and I am not accusing anyone of anything.

I. Could. Be. Wrong.

Always applies.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Right... It is different. Take as a case study, the moral impact of knowingly supporting a candidate that is pro-choice. Or even supporting a candidate that is merely indifferent to the injustice of abortion...

There is surely a moral aspect in such a decision. One which I will not suffer.

No candidate who places no value on the lives of babies will get my vote. Anyone who says that Planned Parenthood does wonderful things can find someone else to vote for them.

Proverbs 24: 11-12 "If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"

[truth_seeker]

One candidate espouses policies, aimed to flood the country with ever more illegal immigrants and high-terror risk muslim refugees.

For the wellbeing and safety of my family, neighbors  it seems more "moral" to consider their well being.

[guitar4jesus]

No candidate who places no value on the lives of babies will get my vote. Anyone who says that Planned Parenthood does wonderful things can find someone else to vote for them.

 

[RoosGirl]

Right... It is different. Take as a case study, the moral impact of knowingly supporting a candidate that is pro-choice. Or even supporting a candidate that is merely indifferent to the injustice of abortion...

There is surely a moral aspect in such a decision. One which I will not suffer.

This is a more reasonable example of *why* voting is an act of morals.   I respect you, @don-o, for attempting to put Weaver's words into practice, but my feeling is you are not applying them correctly in this case.  I think you have to go back further than better or worse to right and wrong.  Why don't you support a candidate like Hillary, based just on the issues and putting aside her less than ethical tendencies of behavior?  Because she supports abortion and it is wrong?  Because in general the democrat party supports removal of our liberty?  It seems we have ample evidence that Trump may be slightly better on abortion; if you take some of his statements as truth he doesn't like but still thinks it should be an option.  If you believe that abortion is wrong, he is still wrong.  And on abortion, and many other issues, there is a candidate that is both better and right.

[roamer_1]

@don-o You and weaver are shooting well over my head, but I can't shake the feeling that one judgement day I'm going to stand accountable to the leaders I give support to with my vote. Now, maybe I can't argue that in high tone philosophy; but gosh durn it there right and there's wrong. This country is in the mess that it is in for making immoral choices in regards to our leaders.

Is it immoral to vote for a member of the KKK, or a murder. We live in a Republic and we as citizens are stewards of our nation. I think we will stand accountable for the choices we make that will effect our children and grand children. I think that makes voting a moral issue. Now I can't prove it with all the high highfalutin language you cotton to, but there it is.

Bravo! There is a point at which it's 'Oh, hell no!'... And you've got to stand for something.

Especially for principled Conservatives. We stand on solid ground, knowing inherently that the principles we live by are true. If everything went to hell in a hand-basket, those principles would STILL be true.

A different story if we are arguing over two Conservative candidates - One being more likely, but the other more principled... Maybe there is some room to let a little slide...

But there is nothing principled in Trump, and there is nothing principled in Clinton. To defend either is to defend falsity - that which we already know to be a lie and unworkable. 

It is a pointless exercise.

[guitar4jesus]

One candidate espouses policies, aimed to flood the country with ever more illegal immigrants and high-terror risk muslim refugees.

No one has any idea what the other candidate will do because you can't believe a thing he says.

[don-o]

@don-o You and weaver are shooting well over my head, but I can't shake the feeling that one judgement day I'm going to stand accountable to the leaders I give support to with my vote. 

Snipped for brevity only. I have to use the words I use for some precision of expressing what I believe. And I hope that nothing I write comes off as disparaging or condescending. I want to be called on it if it is.

And I do accept that people will come to different conclusion from their own points of view. I've shared mine and taken the hits.

Still standing.

[RoosGirl]

I maintain that the moral aspect is the act of eating. Eating is not evil. It is a spiritual danger, imo, in trying to make every decision into a moral choice. Perhaps do some thinking about scrupulosity.

This is for the discussion and I am not accusing anyone of anything.

I. Could. Be. Wrong.

Always applies.

I did not really intend that the simple act of eating had some big moral aspect related to it.  Rather that gluttonous eating has some moral aspect to it that may involve more than just a simple 0 or 1 choice.

[EasyAce]

My voting is an act I do.  It is a moral choice for me.

I find it sad to find another conservative that thinks there is no morality in their choice to vote.

Or---depending on the alternative options they might be offered in their states---not to vote.

Frank Chodorov, "If We Quit Voting"

[roamer_1]

Eating is not evil.

It is if you're eating live babies... 

Always applies.

LOL! I thought that said 'Always APPLES'
 :huh?:

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Snipped for brevity only. I have to use the words I use for some precision of expressing what I believe. And I hope that nothing I write comes off as disparaging or condescending. I want to be called on it if it is.

And I do accept that people will come to different conclusion from their own points of view. I've shared mine and taken the hits.

Still standing.

It's all good. ^-^
I appreciate your precision and your willingness to share your point of view. I didn't take it to be condescending at all. 

[roamer_1]

I don't know, are you double dipping? ;)

Well, yah - on purpose too... But I am the only one dipping into the bowl... so muhuhahaha! 

Seriously, if you are over-indulging, like I have a tendency to do, then yes, I would say it is a moral decision with respect to how God wants us to live.

*rolls eyes*... OK. fine... but setting that aside, and considering that there are no limbless, weeping, starving children within a readily definable area around me... Having a snack is not a moral issue.

[DCPatriot]

My voting is an act I do.  It is a moral choice for me.

I find it sad to find another conservative that thinks there is no morality in their choice to vote.

If you've been posting on Conservative boards for years....and I believe you have...then you're primarily affiliated and vote with the Republican Party.

The Primaries are over.   Therefore, the infighting should be over.

For now...your moral vote must be decided on leaving America in the hands of Hillary, "There's only the Fight", Clinton...or take a chance on a person that loves American with all his heart, is in good health, and a successful businessman...even though he's become a caricature of himself.   

"As you ramble on through life, brother, whatever by your goal.....keep your eye upon the donut, and not upon the hole"

[roamer_1]

Or---depending on the alternative options they might be offered in their states---not to vote.

[Lando Lincoln]

Lord willing... On General Election Day, I will go to my polling place, take my ballot and step into the booth.  I will, at that moment, make what I deem is a moral decision.  Factors I am probably not aware of today may go into that decision.  To the extent possible, it will be absent any emotion such as anger, vindictiveness or my personal pettiness.   

That is really what we should all do. 

[truth_seeker]

No one has any idea what the other candidate will do because you can't believe a thing he says.

I have enough information, to conclude she will do less, and he will do more to secure the safety of my family.

To disregard my family's safety is not moral.

[roamer_1]

I have enough information, to conclude she will do less, and he will do more to secure the safety of my family.

I do not.

[guitar4jesus]

I do not.

Me neither.

[thackney]

The Amish don't vote. I do vote.

Do you believe the Amish don't view that as a moral choice?  If not, why don't they vote?

[roamer_1]

If you've been posting on Conservative boards for years....and I believe you have...then you're primarily affiliated and vote with the Republican Party.

The Primaries are over.   Therefore, the infighting should be over.

Precisely why I am no longer a Republican - I am under no such obligation whatsoever.

[...]or take a chance on a person that loves American with all his heart, is in good health, and a successful businessman...

Wow. That's more sugar coating than Frosted Flakes.

[...]even though he's become a caricature of himself.   

Trump has always been a caricature.

[don-o]

This is a more reasonable example of *why* voting is an act of morals.   I respect you, @don-o, for attempting to put Weaver's words into practice, but my feeling is you are not applying them correctly in this case.  I think you have to go back further than better or worse to right and wrong.  Why don't you support a candidate like Hillary, based just on the issues and putting aside her less than ethical tendencies of behavior?  Because she supports abortion and it is wrong?  Because in general the democrat party supports removal of our liberty?  It seems we have ample evidence that Trump may be slightly better on abortion; if you take some of his statements as truth he doesn't like but still thinks it should be an option.  If you believe that abortion is wrong, he is still wrong.  And on abortion, and many other issues, there is a candidate that is both better and right.

All I can say is what I have said. The act of voting is not a moral choice for me to make. It is a neutral matter. I suppose the Amish consider it to be so. But I am not Amish.

Let's talk about abortion. Is it reasonable to assume that the appointments that Trump makes will be identical to the ones Clinton makes? If you say it is, then there is no need for going any farther. Please reply.

[Smokin Joe]

'They'...are not morons.  'They' are not ill-informed.  Just for the example you cite.

Therefore, 'They' couldn't care less.

"Caring'? How can you tell what we care about? Are you some sort of mind reader?

We are regaled with "pragmatism", with lesser evil false dichotomies, with TEOTWAWKI if we don't vote for the sh*t on the plate. Because the other sh*t choice has 'what plants crave' or something.

News flash!!!

It doesn't matter what we care about. Not to the people manipulating elections in this country.
 It hasn't mattered to the GOP for decades. We have repeatedly tried to tell them, by stopping donations, reducing support, with the TEA party, the March on Washington, with primary challenges, letters, e-mails, phone calls...

They couldn't care less.
We are past the point where 'caring' means anything, because the brass at the GOP doesn't care if we do.  And the whole 'send money or you don't care' Liberal cause fundraiser tactic has devolved to 'give us your vote or you don't care'?

DILLIGAF what you or they think at this point? #neverhillary#nevertrump and, because I'm a mite old for 'hashtags',  #sand2.

[roamer_1]

No candidate who places no value on the lives of babies will get my vote. Anyone who says that Planned Parenthood does wonderful things can find someone else to vote for them.

Proverbs 24: 11-12 "If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?"

 
Exactly right.
And that, my friend is a morally upright position.

[thackney]

If you've been posting on Conservative boards for years....and I believe you have...then you're primarily affiliated and vote with the Republican Party.

The Primaries are over.   Therefore, the infighting should be over.

For now...your moral vote must be decided on leaving America in the hands of Hillary, "There's only the Fight", Clinton...or take a chance on a person that loves American with all his heart, is in good health, and a successful businessman...even though he's become a caricature of himself.

I do not see my vote, in my state, as such a black or white issue.  For starters, there is no way in the world, my vote will make any difference in Texas.  We will not cast our electoral college votes for any democrat this year. 

This does encourages me to make a protest vote.  A vote I don't expect to make any difference in those elected, only in those counting that cared enough to vote, and found the choice unacceptable.