Author Topic: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........  (Read 7374 times)

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Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 05:20:30 pm »
The author of the link is Wayne Grudem:

Who is Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary in Arizona.
 He is a graduate of Harvard (BA), Westminster Seminary-Philadelphia (MDiv, DD),
 and the University of Cambridge (PhD).
 He has written more than 20 books, includingSystematic Theology, Politics According to the Bible and (with Barry Asmus) The Poverty of Nations: A Sustainable Solution.

http://townhall.com/columnists/waynegrudem/2016/07/28/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice-n2199564

Offline ABX

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 05:32:39 pm »
The fact that we are still talking about the 'lesser of two evils' to the point that for a very high percent (not just single digits like we usually have), both are so vile and corrupt it is difficult to tell the lesser and people choose neither, says a lot about how bad the system has become.

In just four years, we've gone from the lesser of two evils in Romney versus Obama, where even with Romney, many may have had problems with him but most didn't actually think he was vile and evil, to this, shows the vast and rapid decline on our side.

(at that, the Conservative rate of voting actually stayed the same with McCain and Romney going back to trends, so those that sat out were minimal- now we are looking at upward of 30% polling who can't vote for the Republican candidate (and the Democrats are having similar issues))- http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/423363/conservative-purists-didnt-sit-out-last-two-elections-ramesh-ponnuru )

Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 05:39:19 pm »
Phil Johnson's Response to Wayne Grudem's Recent Support of Donald Trump

"The lesser-of-two-evils argument loses all validity when the two evils we are talking about are both major abominations. The lesser-evil principle only works when we're talking about petty issues--gnats, not camels. And we've got a couple of massive, hairy, two-humped Bactrian Camels here."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactrian_camel



So it took just four minutes to read the article I posted.... locate a rebutal and post it all...right?

Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 05:42:52 pm »
:amen:

Took you guys just 4 minutes to post and that no doubt without even reading the article let alone "thinking" about what was written to draw your own conclusions from....which leads me to believe you aren't interested in discussion...rather simply going from thread to thread to prevent any discussion regarding anything favorable to Trump.....

You took the bait......and showed yourselves for what you are!


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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 05:46:22 pm »
Took you guys just 4 minutes to post and that no doubt without even reading the article let alone "thinking" about what was written to draw your own conclusions from....which leads me to believe you aren't interested in discussion...rather simply going from thread to thread to prevent any discussion regarding anything favorable to Trump.....

You took the bait......and showed yourselves for what you are!

I've grown tired of feeding trolls. See ya!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2016, 05:49:22 pm »
Took you guys just 4 minutes to post and that no doubt without even reading the article let alone "thinking" about what was written to draw your own conclusions from....which leads me to believe you aren't interested in discussion...rather simply going from thread to thread to prevent any discussion regarding anything favorable to Trump.....

You took the bait......and showed yourselves for what you are!

Actually, this has been posted in comments several times in the past couple of days so I'm sure everyone has seen it before, as I did at the source.  At that, I almost posted it yesterday writing a long, paragraph by paragraph rebuttal but decided not to go there and get into some big morality fight.

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 05:51:05 pm »

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”.


Dietrich Bonhoffer
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 05:52:57 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 05:54:38 pm »

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”.


Dietrich Bonhoffer

 :thumbsup:

I'm in the middle of reading Bonhoffer's biography right now.

Offline flowers

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 05:55:10 pm »
Took you guys just 4 minutes to post and that no doubt without even reading the article let alone "thinking" about what was written to draw your own conclusions from....which leads me to believe you aren't interested in discussion...rather simply going from thread to thread to prevent any discussion regarding anything favorable to Trump.....

You took the bait......and showed yourselves for what you are!

 :silly: 


Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 05:55:50 pm »
The fact that we are still talking about the 'lesser of two evils' to the point that for a very high percent (not just single digits like we usually have), both are so vile and corrupt it is difficult to tell the lesser and people choose neither, says a lot about how bad the system has become.

In just four years, we've gone from the lesser of two evils in Romney versus Obama, where even with Romney, many may have had problems with him but most didn't actually think he was vile and evil, to this, shows the vast and rapid decline on our side.

(at that, the Conservative rate of voting actually stayed the same with McCain and Romney going back to trends, so those that sat out were minimal- now we are looking at upward of 30% polling who can't vote for the Republican candidate (and the Democrats are having similar issues))- http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/423363/conservative-purists-didnt-sit-out-last-two-elections-ramesh-ponnuru )


Yes but I do think it's been going on further back as well......it can be no other way as there are none devoid of 'evil' in one form or another. Some are just far better at hiding it than others.

Furthermore it's no longer about 'good men' rising to the top of the heap as the heap is nothing more than those who have or can  generate the funding to run for office, and both. ... so it's a "bought" presidency no matter how any one looks at it. 

We have what we get because the population on a whole has permitted so......Trump and Sanders both represented an angry population fed up with the political status quo......so one of the two indeed shake the entire filed and here we are.......now everyone's complaining.....go figure......

As Ii see it none in Washington were listening to the people and this just evidences so. Further the population isn't the American population it once was.......The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the population as migrants/illegals come here to take advantage of this "free ride' going so far as demanding it's their right..... and many here were already generational families remaining on the rolls for a lifetime. It's their standard.

Sp here we are...

Offline don-o

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 05:56:49 pm »
Get back to me when Trump himself even starts to articulate, in a rational and coherent manner, the things that the writer is projecting upon him.


Offline ABX

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 05:58:39 pm »
Get back to me when Trump himself even starts to articulate, in a rational and coherent manner, the things that the writer is projecting upon him.

That's one of the things I almost went after yesterday when reading this and almost posting. Grudem attributes to Trump things he has never said or positions he has never clearly articulated. It is very much a lesson in projection- what he wants to happen, not what there is evidence for happening.

Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 06:01:07 pm »
I read it yesterday at TownHall.  Don't let the facts get in your way.

And you comments regarding it?.......

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2016, 06:10:35 pm »
Get back to me when Trump himself even starts to articulate, in a rational and coherent manner, the things that the writer is projecting upon him.

I think most informed voters prefer to hear from the candidate himself instead of someone trying to interpret what he thinks the candidate says and does....I know I do.
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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2016, 06:12:39 pm »
Get back to me when Trump himself even starts to articulate, in a rational and coherent manner, the things that the writer is projecting upon him.

 :amen: But that is NEVER going to happen!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline TomSea

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2016, 06:13:14 pm »
Agreed, non-interventionism, protect the USA, America first, fight terror. All moral.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2016, 06:25:44 pm »
:thumbsup:

I'm in the middle of reading Bonhoffer's biography right now.

Eric Metaxis' Bonhoeffer??  It's a marvelous book - so well written and deeply informative.  GREAT read!

And if we had a few more people with the backbone and character of Bonhoeffer in the Republican party, there would be no such thing as a Trump candidacy.....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline WAC

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2016, 06:28:55 pm »
Let me guess. The 'lesser evil' argument. It's the only one left. And still a fallacy.

Spurgeon's statement is often quoted hear that  "of two evils, choose neither."...

The reality however is.... you WILL have a president, like it or not... sometimes not making a choice, is making a choice.....choosing neither in this case means choosing to help the greater evil......no matter what you choose to do, vote or not,  hillary or trump is going to be in the white house.... there is no option C....... what everyone chooses to do or not will 'contribute' in some way to that result


Offline musiclady

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2016, 06:35:19 pm »
Spurgeon's statement is often quoted hear that  "of two evils, choose neither."...

The reality however is.... you WILL have a president, like it or not... sometimes not making a choice, is making a choice.....choosing neither in this case means choosing to help the greater evil......no matter what you choose to do, vote or not,  hillary or trump is going to be in the white house.... there is no option C....... what everyone chooses to do or not will 'contribute' in some way to that result

What many of us want to know, is how you can justify your missionary-like zeal for an evil candidate?  Why are you here trying to convince us to go against our beliefs?  Why are you insistent on condemning our choice?

If both are evil (they are) and you are voting for one because one of them will win, how can you possibly attack those of us who refuse to vote for either evil?

At least have the decency to recognize that we have the right to refuse to support someone who violates every principle we have.....

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2016, 06:51:33 pm »
Spurgeon's statement is often quoted hear that  "of two evils, choose neither."...

The reality however is.... you WILL have a president, like it or not... sometimes not making a choice, is making a choice.....choosing neither in this case means choosing to help the greater evil......no matter what you choose to do, vote or not,  hillary or trump is going to be in the white house.... there is no option C....... what everyone chooses to do or not will 'contribute' in some way to that result

I reject that opinion entirely.
There IS an option C.

No matter what the odds, I will pick the candidate of character and conservative principle, or, if none are valid, I will abstain.
there is no point at all in electing that which you abhor - to prevent the election of that which you abhor..
The absurdity is beyond belief.

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2016, 06:51:51 pm »
@WAC

#Nevertrump.

Moral?  Yeah, lol.






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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2016, 07:02:53 pm »
Spurgeon's statement is often quoted hear that  "of two evils, choose neither."...

The reality however is.... you WILL have a president, like it or not... sometimes not making a choice, is making a choice.....choosing neither in this case means choosing to help the greater evil......no matter what you choose to do, vote or not,  hillary or trump is going to be in the white house.... there is no option C....... what everyone chooses to do or not will 'contribute' in some way to that result

Sure there's an option C, and I availed myself of it long ago.  I sleep well at night, and the air out here in "C" land is very fresh.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-a-morally-good-choice........
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2016, 07:19:39 pm »
Quote
These are certainly flaws, but I don’t think they are disqualifying flaws in this election.

Here is where I stopped reading in detail.  If the flaws that are listed are disqualifying in some elections (and they are!) then they are disqualifying in ALL elections.  You can throw any justification you want at the list of flaws, but that doesn't make them justified.

Your "bait" can hang, as if most, or all actually, of us don't read independently besides what is posted here.