Author Topic: The Wages of Conscience  (Read 4827 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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The Wages of Conscience
« on: July 30, 2016, 01:57:23 pm »
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438525/hillary-clinton-2016-democratic-convention-speech-reintroductions-wont-work

The Wages of Conscience

Jonah Goldberg
July 29, 2016


Last night I tweeted:



It’s the most retweeted thing I’ve ever tweeted. And I stand by it 100 percent. By definition a cult of personality candidacy isn’t going to be as inclusive as a broad, classically liberal philosophy. I am repulsed by his personality, so I am not fit for the cult.

That tweet also elicited predictably angry responses from all of the folks you’d expect to be angered by it. But the anger is instructive. I understand that some people, including many friends and former fans, are cross with me because they sincerely think that whatever Trump’s flaws, “we” have to do everything we can to stop Hillary Clinton. I get that, and I am truly sympathetic (Heck, I play a major role in Dinesh D’Souza’s full-barreled assault on Clinton and the Democrats).

I’m not going to revisit all of my reasons for why I reject the idea that I should, out of partisan loyalty, transform myself into a pliant hack for a party whose nominee not only has contempt for me, but far more importantly, for most of the things that led me to wear the Republican label in the first place. As should be clear from this “news”letter so far, I’m not going to let the GOP make me a liar for Donald Trump and I’m not going to let my contempt for Donald Trump make me a liar for Hillary Clinton. They are both awful, and if Hillary Clinton wins my conscience will be clear because the people responsible for that loss will be the ones who let this thin-skinned and bullying poltroon hijack the party in the first place.

I’m sure I’m being unfair to many, but I’m convinced I’m being entirely fair to at least a few when I say that some of the anger aimed at #NeverTrumpers isn’t purely motivated by rage against those insufficiently dedicated to stopping Hillary — it’s also derived from a sense of shame on the part of those willing to sell their souls to this creamsicle colored kakistocrat. The thinking seems to be, “If I’m willing to sell out to this guy, who are you not to?” And among the politicians, the calculation seems to be that if everyone makes a deal with the devil, no one can be singled out for blame when this ends in tears.

One of the reasons corruption is so hard to eliminate, particularly in the developing world, is that honesty is seen as a kind of betrayal. Bribe-takers like bribes, to be sure, but they also hate those who won’t take them — not just because the refusers threaten their livelihoods, but because such refusals remind the corrupted of that they had a choice.

Every day I hear from people who accuse me of thinking I’m better than them for not bending the knee. I will, in all honesty, plead guilty to sounding like that sometimes (though it is not my intent). In Cleveland, more than a few delegates told me I need to “man up” or put my “big-boy pants on” and get on board the Trump Train. I hear such hectoring hourly on Twitter and in e-mail (it’s a strange definition of manhood that requires abandoning one’s convictions and hopping aboard the bandwagon). When I refuse, I can on occasion hear the needle-pr*ck-pop of conscience prompting them to shout louder at me.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 03:00:38 pm »
 :amen:

Offline TomSea

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 03:04:50 pm »




He's actually saying the DNC is about loving America? Really?

Maybe he's not NRO but RiNO.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 03:08:45 pm »
:amen:

 :amen:

I think most of us could have penned the same words.  Concur!
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline JustPassinThru

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 03:12:54 pm »
Let's not forget - Goldberg was one of those Never-Trump RINOs ready to plant in some cipher at the last minute.

Goldberg is a RINO purist...just as some of us are conservative purists.  Difference is, the RINO purists are fighting to protect, not ideals but their class structure and Insider status.  And while most of the RINOs have recognized they have a lot in common with Donnie and can use him, some, like Goldberg, blanch.

I feel his pain.  I despise what he's using the Republican Party for, his group's enrichment and power-expansion...but I feel his frustration.

But this is what liars and dishonest persons DO.  They divide.  They fragment.  They destroy cohesive social organizations and groups.

Trump is not only the natural result of the RINOs in power, he will be the toxin that destroys the RINO party.

Offline TomSea

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 03:24:11 pm »
I think Trump is a reaction to the Neo-Cons, Bush doing substantial damage to the RNC, caring more about globalism than Americans.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2016, 03:25:33 pm »

He's actually saying the DNC is about loving America? Really?

Maybe he's not NRO but RiNO.

Ah.  You didn't read the article, but felt compelled to comment on it nonetheless.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 03:27:18 pm by Sanguine »

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2016, 03:27:15 pm »
What I heard from most of the GOP convention was a message of punishment, anger and revenge slathered in admonition of constitutional and social conservatism. It was a complete opposite of Reagan's nomination acceptance speech. Reagan expressed some righteous anger but released it and invited democrats to join us in making America Great Again (Yes, Reagan said it first)


www.youtube.com/watch?v=nukzTmu8tPA

In fact, Reagan warned against exactly what Trump said with his "I Alone" comments.




Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 06:17:54 pm »
[

Jonah has it exactly backwards. 

The driving force behind Trump's support is our love of America and the recognition that America must be pulled back from the precipice of annihilation.  Our very sovereignty is at risk:  our right to control our borders and who enters through them, our right to economic and geopolitical agreements designed to help, not hurt, Americans must be reclaimed and acted upon.  An America that stands strong economically and militarily has always been best not just for her citizens, but also for the world's best hope for peace and stability.

Our courts must again be tethered to her Constitutional origins if the 1st and 2nd Amendments are to continue; if blind justice is to have meaning; if we are to have a government for and by the people rather than for and by an oligarchy.

We must again preserve, protect and defend each individual's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and our credo that all lives, born and unborn, matter.

These are the goals of the Americans who support Donald Trump.  Don't be angry with him because he picked up the mantle while others shunned it.  Don't be angry with Donald Trump because he has the conviction and sheer guts to become our voice ....  shouting "Enough!"  "Our course and our mission must change".

The GOP convention was most certainly about loving America, Jonah...the America of doers, the America of builders, the America of freedom-loving people who rage against victimhood and government as savior.

We support and admire Donald Trump because he feels the same way and is willing to lead America to a return to the greatness our citizens and the world both need and deserve.

So Jonah, stop resenting Donald Trump because he stood up and answered the clarion call for action.  You would better serve your love for America if you joined the fight to save her.


@flowers



 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:49:28 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline ABX

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 06:21:57 pm »
If someone were conspiracy minded, they would almost say the RNC was set up as a foil the DNC could counter.

In reality, it is most likely the simple result of the DNC coming later so they quickly drafted their message based on the RNC and response to it to get the maximum impact.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 06:23:45 pm »
[

Jonah has it exactly backwards. 

The driving force behind Trump's support is our love of American and the recognition that America must be pulled back from the precipice of annihilation.  Our very sovereignty is at risk:  our right to control our borders and who enters through them, our right to economic and geopolitical agreements designed to help, not hurt, Americans must be reclaimed and acted upon.  An America that stands strong economically and militarily has always been best not just for her citizens, but also for the world's best hope for peace and stability.

Our courts must again be tethered to her Constitutional origins if the 1st and 2nd Amendments are to continue; if blind justice is to have meaning; if we are to have a government for and by the people rather than for and by an oligarchy.

We must again preserve, protect and defend each individual's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and our credo that all lives, born and unborn, matter.

These are the goals of the Americans who support Donald Trump.  Don't be angry with him because he picked up the mantle while others shunned it.  Don't be angry with Donald Trump because he has the conviction and sheer guts to become our voice ....  shouting "Enough!"  "Our course and our mission must change".

The GOP convention was most certainly about loving America, Jonah...the America of doers, the America of builders, the America of freedom-loving people who rage against victimhood and government as savior.

We support and admire Donald Trump because he feels the same way and is willing to lead America to a return to the greatness our citizens and the world both need and deserve.

So Jonah, stop resenting Donald Trump because he stood up and answered the clarion call for action.  You would better serve your love for America if you joined the fight to save her.

And your complete derangement continues.

Donald Trump will do exactly NONE of that.  He is just another Clinton crime syndicate  soilder.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 06:24:44 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

HonestJohn

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 06:35:57 pm »
[

Jonah has it exactly backwards. 

The driving force behind Trump's support is our love of America and the recognition that America must be pulled back from the precipice of annihilation.  Our very sovereignty is at risk:  our right to control our borders and who enters through them, our right to economic and geopolitical agreements designed to help, not hurt, Americans must be reclaimed and acted upon.  An America that stands strong economically and militarily has always been best not just for her citizens, but also for the world's best hope for peace and stability.

Our courts must again be tethered to her Constitutional origins if the 1st and 2nd Amendments are to continue; if blind justice is to have meaning; if we are to have a government for and by the people rather than for and by an oligarchy.

We must again preserve, protect and defend each individual's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and our credo that all lives, born and unborn, matter.

These are the goals of the Americans who support Donald Trump.  Don't be angry with him because he picked up the mantle while others shunned it.  Don't be angry with Donald Trump because he has the conviction and sheer guts to become our voice ....  shouting "Enough!"  "Our course and our mission must change".

The GOP convention was most certainly about loving America, Jonah...the America of doers, the America of builders, the America of freedom-loving people who rage against victimhood and government as savior.

We support and admire Donald Trump because he feels the same way and is willing to lead America to a return to the greatness our citizens and the world both need and deserve.

So Jonah, stop resenting Donald Trump because he stood up and answered the clarion call for action.  You would better serve your love for America if you joined the fight to save her.

Riiight.

Which Americans are you talking about here?

For Trump has made it very clear that if you are an American whose parents where born in Mexico... that person isn't American.

And that Muslim-Americans must either (depending on his mood) be expelled or registered for monitoring.

So, just come out and tell us... just *WHO* do you consider American.  For it's definitely not everyone that current has citizenship.

Silver Pines

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 07:19:17 pm »

So Jonah, stop resenting Donald Trump because he stood up and answered the clarion call for action.

More accurately, Trump answered the clarion call of his ego for self-aggrandizement. 

@Right_in_Virginia

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 07:27:22 pm »
More accurately, Trump answered the clarion call of his ego for self-aggrandizement. 

@Right_in_Virginia

Trump answered the phone when his bud Bill Clinton called and told him it was time for him to enter the political arena.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 07:29:58 pm »
Trump answered the phone when his bud Bill Clinton called and told him it was time for him to enter the political arena.

Bingo!

Offline aligncare

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2016, 08:07:03 pm »
[

Jonah has it exactly backwards. 

The driving force behind Trump's support is our love of America and the recognition that America must be pulled back from the precipice of annihilation.  Our very sovereignty is at risk:  our right to control our borders and who enters through them, our right to economic and geopolitical agreements designed to help, not hurt, Americans must be reclaimed and acted upon.  An America that stands strong economically and militarily has always been best not just for her citizens, but also for the world's best hope for peace and stability.

Our courts must again be tethered to her Constitutional origins if the 1st and 2nd Amendments are to continue; if blind justice is to have meaning; if we are to have a government for and by the people rather than for and by an oligarchy.

We must again preserve, protect and defend each individual's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and our credo that all lives, born and unborn, matter.

These are the goals of the Americans who support Donald Trump.  Don't be angry with him because he picked up the mantle while others shunned it.  Don't be angry with Donald Trump because he has the conviction and sheer guts to become our voice ....  shouting "Enough!"  "Our course and our mission must change".

The GOP convention was most certainly about loving America, Jonah...the America of doers, the America of builders, the America of freedom-loving people who rage against victimhood and government as savior.

We support and admire Donald Trump because he feels the same way and is willing to lead America to a return to the greatness our citizens and the world both need and deserve.

So Jonah, stop resenting Donald Trump because he stood up and answered the clarion call for action.  You would better serve your love for America if you joined the fight to save her.

I share your POV, but I could never have said it as well, RIV.  :beer:  :patriot:

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2016, 08:42:48 pm »
I share your POV, but I could never have said it as well, RIV.  :beer:  :patriot:

Thank you, @aligncare   :beer:

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2016, 09:46:20 pm »
More accurately, Trump answered the clarion call of his ego for self-aggrandizement. 

@Right_in_Virginia

You are wrong @CatherineofAragon.  You are simply and accurately wrong.

Offline Dirt for sale

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2016, 09:56:07 pm »
Love your thinking, sinkspur. If you don't have principles you'll stand for, then you'll take a stand for anything.  Loyalty to party over principles had horrifying consequences in the 20th century, and this century is gearing up to be no better. Just a bigger and more inclusive gulag.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2016, 10:04:36 pm »
You are wrong @CatherineofAragon.  You are simply and accurately wrong.

Why is she wrong? Because you said so? 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline beandog

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2016, 10:09:05 pm »



He's actually saying the DNC is about loving America? Really?

Maybe he's not NRO but RiNO.
Neither convention was about loving American.  The RNC convention was about tRump loving himself, his supporters loving him and trashing anyone who doesn't.  The DNC convention was just a bunch of nasty misfits who want free stuff and for everybody else to have to accept whatever weird thing they come up with.  The Rats in power pretend they care about these people, even though they really hold them in contempt, just to stay in power. 
Unlike a lot of people here, I do not think Hillary would be better for the country.  I think they are both horrible.  I detest Hillary and her supporters as much as tRump and his supporters.  The are the reason we are in this position.

How in the hell with all the good people in this country we ended up with these two, just disgusts me.

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2016, 10:15:12 pm »
More accurately, Trump answered the clarion call of his ego for self-aggrandizement. 

@Wrong_in_Virginia

His ego has been so aggrandized so often it has become a malignant tumor growing out of control.

HonestJohn

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2016, 10:35:11 pm »
You are wrong @CatherineofAragon.  You are simply and accurately wrong.

Standard practice is to provide some proof of your claim.  It doesn't have to be in the same post or from the same poster... but there should be something in this thread to support your assertion.

And there is none.

Silver Pines

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2016, 10:37:56 pm »
Trump answered the phone when his bud Bill Clinton called and told him it was time for him to enter the political arena.

@Bigun

Which should raise red flags all over the place for everybody.

Silver Pines

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Re: The Wages of Conscience
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2016, 10:51:38 pm »
You are wrong @CatherineofAragon.  You are simply and accurately wrong.

@Right_in_Virginia , I know you love the guy, but in all the reading and research I've done, one theme holds true when it comes to Trump: everything he does is meant to glorify himself and his "brand."  He's so over-the-top egotistical that he's practically a self-parody.

On the other hand, Trump says he's a patriot, America must come first, etc., but there's nothing to back up those empty words.  On the contrary, he apologizes for America, has his clothing line made overseas, hires illegal immigrants, joked about avoiding service during Vietnam, and gave that big donation to military veterans only after being forced to do so.   So tell me, why am I wrong?