#NeverTrump Delegate Rebels ‘Defeated’ at the RNC Rules Committee

[Jazzhead]

Let me pose a hypothetical question?

Let's say your candidate whoever it may be. Won the primary with 1500+ delegates.

Then Mitt and his crew of the GOP big boys, said OH NO THIS AINT HAPPENEING!
So they try and unbind delegates , the same ones they asked to be bound for Mitt!
They wanted Mitt and kasich or jeb and Kasich!
So they tried a couple during the  RNC rules committee votes!

What would you think?
Your guy won hands down, and they want to void that?
What if the primary winner was Cruz, Rubio, Kasich?
How would you feel?

Be honest and. No postings for this...

SO WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I'm sure I wouldn't be pleased.  But my understanding Trump supporters' anger at folks like me isn't the point. 

There were, what, 15 candidates running for the GOP nod this year.   I liked a couple of them a lot, others not so much, but the bottom line was this -  if 14 out of 15 of those candidates had gotten the nomination,  I'd have enthusiastically supported them against Clinton.   I've always been a party man,  and always been institutionally loyal,  no matter whether the nominee was the guy I fought for or not.   

Trump is different.   He is uniquely unqualified, he is uniquely dangerous.    This is, for me, all about one man and his utter lack of qualifications to be CIC.   I think he's a phony conservative,  but that alone isn't the reason I'm #NeverTrump.   He represents a kind of cynicism that I posit is, quite simply, un-American.   He doesn't believe in the melting pot;  he thinks in racialist terms just as surely as Al Sharpton does,  and he is exploiting the volk's fear and prejudices while setting up the nation for what I fear will be a dark and divisive future.    That's what hucksters do,  that's what fascists do.   That's not what an American leader should do.  And that's why I say that we must work to defeat Trumpism.   

Yes,  attempting to deprive Trump of the nomination isn't "democratic".   Yes,  I know to the Trumpsters it smacks of a coup d'tet.    I saw yesterday some elements of the Turkish military attempted a coup against an Islamist government.  Sometimes, perhaps the Trumpsters may or may not concede, the mob is in error.   But in the context of the battle for the Republican nomination,  this has also been about yanking the wheel away to avoid a crash that will make Hillary the next President. 

 

[INVAR]

My point is simply that you may need to work harder to get more of these groups elected. 

I'm done with your party so your suggestion is irrelevant.  McConnell saw to that when he said TEA Party Conservatives needed to be punched the nose and told us to sit down and shut up or we will be made to shut up at the Fancy Farm Picnic some years back.

This election circus just confirms my decision to dump your party was the correct one.

I do disagree with you on the future of conservatism, but of course part of that may be our definitions of the philosophy.

We cannot even agree on what the definition of liberty is anymore.  Liberty for some is 'separation of church and state' and freedom from responsibility and religion.  So the future  of 'conservatism' will be the same as 'freedom', because everyone has their own definition today and it's overall meaning is being changed into whatever Trump represents and says Conservatism is.  It appears it will be a 'kindler, gentler' ideology that embraces homosexuality, abortion and large intrusive government with slightly less debt spending than the Democrats.

In any case, rather than starting a new party, which I hear demanded from some quarters here and elsewhere every four years, why not just pick from those already organized?

Oligarchies and single party mobocracies don't permit any challenges to their power aside from internal maneuverings.  But to complete my own 'washing of hands' from a completely corrupted system - I registered with the Constitution Party.

Recognize that they don't do well, but apparently do make their members feel good about themselves. 

I do feel better being rid of a thoroughly corrutped party and institution, but ultimately irrelevant in a post-Constitutional socialist mobocracy.   No party outside of the uniparty 'does well' but whom the Ruling Class seats upon manipulation of the masses.

I have never told the Religious Right to get lost. 

Your leadership has.  Your punditry has.  It's political hacks and operatives have.

We need them, as well as the rest of the conservatives to win a major election. 

Too late.   Not gonna happen.  Trump himself said that he did not need us 'to win' and would do so without us.  A sentiment his acolytes have repeated viciously and often after impugning the patriotism of those who have openly stated they are not voting for him.  This is a common moniker of your party now.  Jeb's team told us early on that he would 'win without the Christian Conservative Base' also.

You are not going to have principled Conservatives and the biblically adherent in your party because your party told us to get lost and made that sentiment abundantly clear.

Conservatism is already dead in your party.

You just don't realize it yet.

But it is self-evident to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.

[Suppressed]

so who deserves the right to decide what gets overruled - and who gets the spot?

eliminate elections and just let the ones who 'know best' make their picks?

sounds a little like the EU.

No.  We're in a republic, where we elect those who make the decisions.

You seem to be a democrat, wanting a blind direct election.

[INVAR]

No.  We're in a republic, where we elect those who make the decisions.

Sad to say it, but the fact is that is not the case anymore.  We've been fundamentally transformed.

This government does not operate as a Republic. 

It's a Socialist state that has an oligarchy that empowered a dictatorship in the Executive, handed to it on a silver platter by the party that Trump now runs.

Mark Levin recognizes this and stated that openly on his show.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic.

We pretend and pay lip service to it because recognizing where we have arrived is painful and a scary proposition.  So everyone will close their eyes tight and keep repeating 'Republic!' over and over to themselves.

[Sanguine]

Sad to say it, but the fact is that is not the case anymore.  We've been fundamentally transformed.

This government does not operate as a Republic. 

It's a Socialist state that has an oligarchy that empowered a dictatorship in the Executive, handed to it on a silver platter by the party that Trump now runs.

Mark Levin recognizes this and stated that openly on his show.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic.

We pretend and pay lip service to it because recognizing where we have arrived is painful and a scary proposition.  So everyone will close their eyes tight and keep repeating 'Republic!' over and over to themselves.

That's the essence of the issue isn't it?  That's really what we're fighting about when we fight over Paul/Rubio/Kasich/Cruz/Trump/Johnson/whomever.  Do we want to keep going down the treacherous slope of democracy and the rule of law is whatever enough people say it is, or do we stand and fight?

[INVAR]

That's the essence of the issue isn't it?  That's really what we're fighting about when we fight over Paul/Rubio/Kasich/Cruz/Trump/Johnson/whomever.  Do we want to keep going down the treacherous slope of democracy and the rule of law is whatever enough people say it is, or do we stand and fight?

The rule of law is already dead.  The GOP surrendered it wholesale.   Lois Lerner's IRS scandal and the FBI's deal with Hillary's e-mails is the in-your-face proof.

You cannot 'fight' to save or work from within corrupted institutions and parties as everyone is discovering.

Cancer has to be cut out, you cannot work from within it.

Personally I think given history, we are beyond saving because you cannot stop tyranny via civil means - and this people have no stomach to risk lives, fortunes and sacred honor for an idea of liberty that the vast majority don't give a rat's ass about.

[truth_seeker]

Maybe we will start a trend!   

I respect and like both of you, but I'm not seeing that in the new demographic lay of the site.

I see the basic "business purpose" or "mission" to be misaligned with the new membership.

I report, you decide.

[RetBobbyMI]

The rule of law is already dead.  The GOP surrendered it wholesale.   Lois Lerner's IRS scandal and the FBI's deal with Hillary's e-mails is the in-your-face proof.

You cannot 'fight' to save or work from within corrupted institutions and parties as everyone is discovering.

Cancer has to be cut out, you cannot work from within it.

Personally I think given history, we are beyond saving because you cannot stop tyranny via civil means - and this people have no stomach to risk lives, fortunes and sacred honor for an idea of liberty that the vast majority don't give a rat's ass about.

The GOP has done too much irreparable harm to itself and the country.  There are too many people entrenched in the current GOP politics of giving more than they get. Politics of capitulation never wins. The only civil means of repairing the direction of this country is brining in a fresh party.  For those that think they can do it within the existing state parties, remember that is who is putting these people in their positions now. The state parties perpetuate the problem, more so than the national party.

[oldmomster]

No.  We're in a republic, where we elect those who make the decisions.

You seem to be a democrat, wanting a blind direct election.

I'm not the one talking about taking the nomination and giving it to the GOPe candidate.   Who will it be....Jeb? Kasich?  They both lost the primary elections big time, yet these losers (including the loser Mitt) think they have the right to overturn the elections.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm not the one talking about taking the nomination and giving it to the GOPe candidate.   Who will it be....Jeb? Kasich?  They both lost the primary elections big time, yet these losers (including the loser Mitt) think they have the right to overturn the elections.

You are right, of course.
Let's go with the populist loser. Who is now the GOPee candidate, because the GOPee sided with him... so they can make deals together.

When he loses, we can all be losers together.
Even though the 40% will blame the 60%

Unless, and perhaps even if she's indicted, Cankles is going to mop the floor with Trump. She's already started, and has 180 million worth of airtime sewn up.

In the meantime, the GOP has lost every Constitutional Conservative who gives a d@mn.

[INVAR]

I see the basic "business purpose" or "mission" to be misaligned with the new membership.

Well maybe you can advocate what JR did at the other site and petition the owners and mods to ban all of us in the 'new membership' because we are 'misaligned' with your view of what the business purpose and mission of this board is.

It's what we expect from Trump supporters.

Make everything a Safe Space with no dissent permitted or allowed, because it is misaligned with the mission and business purpose of getting your prince crowned Dear Leader.

[Smokin Joe]

I respect and like both of you, but I'm not seeing that in the new demographic lay of the site.

I see the basic "business purpose" or "mission" to be misaligned with the new membership.

I report, you decide.

Maybe you'd rather we went somewhere else and talked about you behind your back. Oh, wait, that trick's taken. 

[txradioguy]

Well maybe you can advocate what JR did at the other site and petition the owners and mods to ban all of us in the 'new membership' because we are 'misaligned' with your view of what the business purpose and mission of this board is.

It's what we expect from Trump supporters.

Make everything a Safe Space with no dissent permitted or allowed, because it is misaligned with the mission and business purpose of getting your prince crowned Dear Leader.

Sounds to like to me that some folks liked it better here when their fluffy platitudes werent challenged and they felt like the smartest people on the block just by repeating what Donny tweeted out.

[INVAR]

The GOP has done too much irreparable harm to itself and the country.  There are too many people entrenched in the current GOP politics of giving more than they get. Politics of capitulation never wins. The only civil means of repairing the direction of this country is brining in a fresh party.  For those that think they can do it within the existing state parties, remember that is who is putting these people in their positions now. The state parties perpetuate the problem, more so than the national party.

If God would give us a reprieve from consequences I believe to be imminent, then the only way to eliminate corruption and oligarchy is going to have come from an outside entity from the grassroots that has absolutely no ties or infiltration from the Ruling Classes, which in itself may be impossible. 

If there is one truth to understand which is never changeable because it is human nature (and history confirms this); oligarchies and tyrants do not relinquish power and control without violence or the threat of violence.  Civil means is not an option when the very institutions intended to prevent such oligarchy and tyranny are corrupted to ensure their perpetuity.

Sadly as the Founders warned, when a people become unmoored from the foundational principles and religion that established us, and once they figure out how to vote themselves largesse from the treasury - the die is cast and there is no going back.  The liberty protected by the Constitution they enshrined for us was wholly dependent upon a religious and moral people and culture to maintain it.

We are no longer a moral or religious people.

At best we are a pragmatic and amoral people for self interest.  Liberty as we once had it cannot exist in this environment.  It's not possible.

As Franklin said, as nations become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters;  tyrants and overseers to keep order.

Here we are.

Tyrants and their overseers draw corruption and wickedness to themselves as moths to a flame.

Parties and elections are not going to change or fix that.

[oldmomster]

You are right, of course.
Let's go with the populist loser. Who is now the GOPee candidate, because the GOPee sided with him... so they can make deals together.

In the meantime, the GOP has lost every Constitutional Conservative who gives a d@mn.

Elections have consequences.  The gop has been the shadow democrat party, each taking turns with who gets to be in charge of stealing freedom.  While progress was slower with repubs, we are now in crisis mode with the second term of the obamunist.

Even if Trump achieves ONLY ONE THING he's promised to do, its better than hillary.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way to fix our country and rescue the Republic is the Convention of States and passing an amendment for TERM LIMITS.  So yes, I will vote for the republican candidate and hope that while we slow the degree of corruption, we can get enough states on board to make steps back to freedom.

[oldmomster]

Maybe we could elect a mafia boss to get good things done.  They don't take no for an answer.

meh....

[MACVSOG68]

I believe there is an effort by some to covertly run off the new members.  Don't let them succeed.  Mystery-ak said from day one that she values all members equally, new and old.  So the "oh how grand it used to be before you arrived" is irrelevant to today.  It's just bad manners.

Evidence?

[Mechanicos]

Evidence?

The evidence is they lose their anti-Trump arguments. Which is not surprising seeing as how the anti-Trump arguments were created by democrats like Soros Washington Post, New York Times, Political. etc., and fail like all such arguments.

[Doug Loss]

Sad to say it, but the fact is that is not the case anymore.  We've been fundamentally transformed.

This government does not operate as a Republic. 

It's a Socialist state that has an oligarchy that empowered a dictatorship in the Executive, handed to it on a silver platter by the party that Trump now runs.

Mark Levin recognizes this and stated that openly on his show.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic.

We pretend and pay lip service to it because recognizing where we have arrived is painful and a scary proposition.  So everyone will close their eyes tight and keep repeating 'Republic!' over and over to themselves.

The only hope we have of changing that other than an actual civil war is an Article V convention.  If you're not pushing for that (not you specifically, but "you" in general), you're either accepting of the situation as it stands or have given up.

[Doug Loss]

The evidence is they lose their anti-Trump arguments. Which is not surprising seeing as how the anti-Trump arguments were created by democrats like Soros Washington Post, New York Times, Political. etc., and fail like all such arguments.

That's a load of crap and you know it.

[musiclady]

Evidence?

You haven't seen posters saying that the new members are ruining the site?  That all was rosy before they got here? 

It's said repeatedly by several members.

[musiclady]

That's a load of crap and you know it.

That's all he ever posts.  And he knows exactly what he is doing....

[Sanguine]

The only hope we have of changing that other than an actual civil war is an Article V convention.  If you're not pushing for that (not you specifically, but "you" in general), you're either accepting of the situation as it stands or have given up.

I agree.

[RetBobbyMI]

If God would give us a reprieve from consequences I believe to be imminent, then the only way to eliminate corruption and oligarchy is going to have come from an outside entity from the grassroots that has absolutely no ties or infiltration from the Ruling Classes, which in itself may be impossible. 

If there is one truth to understand which is never changeable because it is human nature (and history confirms this); oligarchies and tyrants do not relinquish power and control without violence or the threat of violence.  Civil means is not an option when the very institutions intended to prevent such oligarchy and tyranny are corrupted to ensure their perpetuity.

Sadly as the Founders warned, when a people become unmoored from the foundational principles and religion that established us, and once they figure out how to vote themselves largesse from the treasury - the die is cast and there is no going back.  The liberty protected by the Constitution they enshrined for us was wholly dependent upon a religious and moral people and culture to maintain it.

We are no longer a moral or religious people.

At best we are a pragmatic and amoral people for self interest.  Liberty as we once had it cannot exist in this environment.  It's not possible.

As Franklin said, as nations become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters;  tyrants and overseers to keep order.

Here we are.

Tyrants and their overseers draw corruption and wickedness to themselves as moths to a flame.

Parties and elections are not going to change or fix that.

I fear the same thing from the Convention of the States.  Although the intent is well founded, it will be the same political insiders who run the various states 2 major parties (although not the elected federal hacks) that are delegates, making sure that they keep their ruling elite class as power brokers.  Either a newcomer (3rd party) has to show some real intrusion into the two party system, or a revolution could very well force change. I don't advocate the later, but it could happen.

[massadvj]

You haven't seen posters saying that the new members are ruining the site?  That all was rosy before they got here? 

It's said repeatedly by several members.

It is not true.  Like any political forum this one has had its ups and downs.