Author Topic: All delegates are unbound  (Read 6356 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,067
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2016, 06:42:22 pm »
So you admit you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
No, but we might not know what YOU are talking about. Do y'all have a link to the USSC decision or not?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Free Vulcan

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,834
  • Gender: Male
  • Ah, the air is so much fresher here...
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2016, 06:48:17 pm »
The problem with the Nat'l Convention is that you have five sets of rules:

1. State laws
2. RNC bylaws
3. State party bylaws
4. Convention rules, as adopted by the floor from the Rules Committee, with our without modification
5. Roberts Rules of Order

You also have the issue of the Convention Chair and Parliamentarian and other officers able to make ruling for or against interpretations of the rules on the spot, and also the ability of the floor to override them.

Knowing which takes precedence and the possbility of overturning them is extremely murky and fractious.

It might be an interesting convention.



« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 07:33:40 pm by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Wingnut

  • Guest
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2016, 06:56:58 pm »


It might be an interesting convention.

Makes me long for the days of Hippies, Yippies And The First Mayor Daley!

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2016, 07:01:53 pm »
Priebus can say what he likes, but what he's describing sounds like a variation on the "unit rule," which is specifically against the convention rules.

Be that as it may, it's up to the convention to decide on the rules it will follow in terms of how the secretary of the convention treats delegates' votes.  If the convention allows for abstentions, or even a "conscience clause," then the secretary of the convention has to follow those rules.
Until 2/3's of the convention delegates vote on it the national Party controls. And only they control the administration of the convention including recording the delegates votes. So, before your barely 28 Cruz fanatics on the rules committee and hundred or so total remaining Cruz fanatic delegates willing to violate their State rules can do any damage they will likely be legally ejected per the Party's freedom of association rights.

Make no mistake, the #neverTrump activity is a direct threat to Party survival and the Party knows this. Do the math. Other then the left wing media generating click bait articles saying it has a chance the real world  data is the opposing Trump vote is the same as those bound to vote for the other candidates and the leader of the Anti's on the Rules Committee is still having trouble getting 28 Delegates to oppose Trump on the record.

Maybe bets can be taken on the number of crazies willing to go on record opposing Trump nomination when they are not required to vote for somebody else per Party rules. I say it will be less than a thousand in total, more likely under 800 total votes for somebody else other then Trump first vote.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2016, 07:31:35 pm »
Make no mistake, the #neverTrump activity is a direct threat to Party survival and the Party knows this. Do the math.

'NeverTrump activity'.   'Direct threat'.  Interesting choice of words.  I'm sure you and yours will advocate criminalizing that 'activity' soon enough if you have not already on other fora.

That said, you supporters for Trump have already ensured the death of your party. 

Why don't you 1. Stop calling a person who is more conservative then you a liberal.

Because he, like the rest of us do not consider a paid advocate for a NYC liberal who supported both Hillary AND Communist Bill DeBlasio less than 3 years ago to be any kind of a Conservative whatsoever. You can claim to be whatever you like, but your fruits of apologizing and massaging of Trump's liberal positions and tyrannical behavior reveals you are not what you claim you are.

The fact is you are a Hillary helper which means the results of your actions if allowed are to advance the DU agenda not a conservative one.
…So, before your barely 28 Cruz fanatics on the rules committee and hundred or so total remaining Cruz fanatic delegates …...Maybe bets can be taken on the number of crazies willing to go on record opposing Trump nomination

"If allowed"????.  Always with you people the subtle threats of hoped-for actions against those of us who oppose your anointed.  "Traitors"; "Hillary supporters" etc.

I find it the height of hypocrisy for Trump fanatics to keep hitting the 'report' button to the mods every single time they read something they do not like, and end up having terms used to denigrate themselves or their prince deemed 'offensive' and get them reprimanded and/or scrubbed from use on this board, yet you people have no problem flinging those very same insults you report to the staff against those of us who oppose you and your king presumptive.

It's an Alinsky tactic, and it is revealing that the very people who insist that those of us NeverTrump on this board are from the DU and whom proclaim themselves 'more Conservative' than any of us, use the very tactics the Left use from their own handbook.



Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2016, 07:38:49 pm »
Until 2/3's of the convention delegates vote on it the national Party controls.

So you're accepting what we've been saying all along.

At last.


Offline bolobaby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,373
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2016, 07:43:22 pm »
"If allowed"????.

HEY! Did you get permission to post your anti-Trump response? Let me see your papers!
How to lose credibility while posting:
1. Trump is never wrong.
2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2016, 07:44:16 pm »
RNC Chair Defends Centuries-Old Delegate System

 Priebus: “The truth is, the delegates themselves are the ones that write the rules to the convention. The RNC doesn’t write any rules.” The RNC only has an “administrative role” at the convention, he added.

 Todd, however, pressed Priebus again. “Who’s picking the nominee: the voters of the delegates?” he asked.
The RNC chair’s explanation contained a little bit of nuance, again something that the cult of Trump is conditioned to shun. Here was Priebus’ answer:     It’s a combination.

 Voters empower the delegates, but ultimately the delegates who in most cases are bound by the outcomes of caucuses and primaries and conventions make the decisions at the conventions.

 As Priebus mentioned, the system is similar to the electoral college used to elect the president of the United States.

 To Trump’s chagrin, he must acquire a majority, not a plurality, of delegates to win the Republican nomination. Those are the rules, plain and simple. If he doesn’t like it, he’s more than welcome to opt out of the party system and run as an independent. The fact that Trump had complete access to these rules and refused to pay attention to them until after the results of the Wyoming and Colorado conventions were released doesn’t bode well for a man looking to negotiate the bestest deals in the world.

 By opposing the entire delegate system carte blanche, Trump is acting like an unprepared and incompetent student whining to the professor after failing an exam. Perhaps you should have studied and read something other than “The Art of the Deal” before running for the highest office in the land, Donald.

https://www.facebook.com/conservativeminuteman/videos/1716994298525394/

Offline thatcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 261
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2016, 08:21:34 pm »


Beau Carroll wins his VA federal court lawsuit -- delegates are unbound.


Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2016, 08:23:33 pm »

Beau Carroll wins his VA federal court lawsuit -- delegates are unbound.
Supreme court ruling is controlling, the Delegates have inferior rights to the National Party so do the States.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,067
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2016, 08:29:34 pm »

Quote from: L9teen on July 11, 2016, 07:44:16 pm
RNC Chair Defends Centuries-Old Delegate System

 Priebus: “The truth is, the delegates themselves are the ones that write the rules to the convention. The RNC doesn’t write any rules.” The RNC only has an “administrative role” at the convention, he added.

 

 To Trump’s chagrin, he must acquire a majority, not a plurality, of delegates to win the Republican nomination. Those are the rules, plain and simple. If he doesn’t like it, he’s more than welcome to opt out of the party system and run as an independent. The fact that Trump had complete access to these rules and refused to pay attention to them until after the results of the Wyoming and Colorado conventions were released doesn’t bode well for a man looking to negotiate the bestest deals in the world.

 By opposing the entire delegate system carte blanche, Trump is acting like an unprepared and incompetent student whining to the professor after failing an exam. Perhaps you should have studied and read something other than “The Art of the Deal” before running for the highest office in the land, Donald.
https://www.facebook.com/conservativeminuteman/videos/1716994298525394/
Awwwww shucks, that doesn't matter. If things don't go his way, he'll tweet his thumbs off whining about how this or that was stolen from him by the lyin' crooked dopey whomever, just like his sniveling about Colorado.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2016, 08:33:39 pm »
This is huge:

Court blocks Virginia delegate law

This means Virginia delegates are unbound via court decree.   No doubt other delegates will free to vote their consciences as well.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,215603.msg961768/topicseen.html#msg961768
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2016, 08:42:27 pm »
Supreme court ruling is controlling, the Delegates have inferior rights to the National Party so do the States.

Nope.  The ruling simply means that VA cannot pass a state law that directs delegates to vote a certain way.  (And, by extension, other state laws to the same effect are overturned as well.)

This is a key point insofar as proposed rules regarding abstention or a "conscience clause" are concerned: there is no law that requires the convention rules to go a particular way.

This is a big, albeit obvious, victory for the "Free the Delegates" movement.

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2016, 08:42:48 pm »

Beau Carroll wins his VA federal court lawsuit -- delegates are unbound.

Fantastic.

If Trump is the super duper candidate & best equipped to rally the party, win in the general and make America great again as his supporters say he is then he'll have no problem winning at the convention.



Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2016, 08:44:03 pm »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2016, 08:57:28 pm »
I predict exploding heads of the Trump Militants.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Wingnut

  • Guest
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2016, 09:04:30 pm »
HEY! Did you get permission to post your anti-Trump response? Let me see your papers!


Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2016, 09:09:36 pm »
Awwwww shucks, that doesn't matter. If things don't go his way, he'll tweet his thumbs off whining about how this or that was stolen from him by the lyin' crooked dopey whomever, just like his sniveling about Colorado.

If things don't go his way the person the most p*ssed off will be Hillary 'cause it'll be much less likely another Clinton administration will be a cakewalk.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 09:10:09 pm by skeeter »

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2016, 09:28:15 pm »
If things don't go his way the person the most p*ssed off will be Hillary 'cause it'll be much less likely another Clinton administration will be a cakewalk.

Exactly.

Hillary needed Trump, which is why they put him in the race in the GOP to begin with.

That's what makes sense to me given everything we have witnessed.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ScottinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,510
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2016, 09:32:30 pm »
YEP


Truly amazing that in a nation of 315 million, THESE two cretins are the "best" we can do.  It speaks volumes about the dismal future America faces.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 09:36:41 pm by ScottinVA »

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2016, 09:33:26 pm »
Awwwww shucks, that doesn't matter. If things don't go his way, he'll tweet his thumbs off whining about how this or that was stolen from him by the lyin' crooked dopey whomever, just like his sniveling about Colorado.
And therein, lays his plan all along.  Whenever he comes up against something that doesn't benefit him, he cries foul, claims he's the "victim" and everyone else is to blame.  It's NEVER his fault or his doing.

And so his whole campaign goes....it never was about winning.  It was about getting as much attention as possible, being the reality star he is, getting the media attention by saying the most obnoxious things, and being the most obnoxious candidate.  That's his racket, right?  He knows how to play the media and the reality tv syndicate, to get his brand out there...and that's what he did.  It didn't (and doesn't) matter how truthful he is, or whether what he says makes any sense, or even works in the real world, it's about "attention".  A FREE spot light on Trump.

So his left hand, i.e., Hillary, can go about her scandals, without nary a peep.  And meanwhile, who is Trump attacking?  The right, the conservatives, the foes of Hillary.  And so now when it comes to getting rid of her last foe, him, he's sabotaging himself, and he'll point to a rigged system, a failed, flawed system, that was unfair to him.  His [plurality] supporters will eat it up and go right along with his victim-hood mentality, but to the MAJORITY, we know better.  HE is the failed, flawed, rigged candidate, and THAT is why he'll lose, whether at the RNC convention or at the general...

But the Trump brand will continue on....his reality tv shows, his empire, his buildings, etc, because "he's just a victim".  In reality, they shouldn't, and he should be made to crawl away in shame, forever shunned in society for the fraud he is and played on the American populace.  But our society is so dumbed down, they'll still buy into his shtick... ****sheep****

Offline Victoria33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,457
  • Gender: Female
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2016, 10:53:02 pm »
@sinkspur  You said, "...Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party."

I have posted this before on TOS some year or years before.  Perhaps it will help all of you to know what happens in reality.  Let's go back to 2012 when Ron Paul was creating havoc with the national party, but the national party is connected to state parties - like the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone.

I attended Texas state conventions for ten years.  I knew the "higher ups" in the state party during those years, one extremely well.  So, here we are that year and Ron Paul was a mess, his people taking over some Texas county conventions completely and electing all Paul people as delegates to the state convention, hoping to get them all elected to the national convention.  When we got to the state convention, the higher up person I knew asked me to find Paul delegates so we wouldn't elect them to the national convention.

I found a way to do that.  I discovered they were all young men, dressed in suits and carrying brief cases with serious looks on their faces.  Now, those of us who had been to conventions a long time, knew the weather in Texas at that time was HOT.  We all wore comfortable clothes and comfortable shoes for all the walking.  Those young men stood out like a sore thumb.  We did not elect them to the national convention.

Thinking of the national convention, I asked this higher up person how they "made" the delegates stick to voting for the person to which they were bound - how could they be sure that person would vote for that delegate?  The answer was simple, If a delegate did not vote for the delegate to which they were bound, THEY WOULD NEVER BE SELECTED  A DELEGATE AGAIN - they would be, in reality, ex-communicated from the party as they would never be selected for any committee or shown any preference ever again. 

See, it comes down to personal interaction between people.  There was no written rule in dealing with delegates who "disappointed" the higher ups, but there was an understanding you would be an outsider from then on if you did not perform as expected.

This understanding will be in the minds of the delegates, what they are expected to do for their state party.  Their reputation is on the line with their state party.  Would you go against your state party and do your own thing, knowing you would never be a delegate again, you would be the black sheep in your party?

Now, if you ask me that question, I think Trump is so detestable/mentally unfit, so totally unfit for that position and he would destroy this country, I would vote for someone else and lose my standing in the party.  My soul would not allow me to vote for him.   If delegates want to stay an "in" person, they will go with what the party tells them is their duty, rather than considering the future of the country.

Last night, I saw the Fox film of our founding fathers going against the country of England, and signing the Declaration of Independence, which sealed their deaths if they lost the war of independence.  I thought of the delegates and what they will do or not do for the country in a few days.  I think we need to pray, and I do mean pray, the delegates will consider how important their vote is for the future of the country.
@INVAR
@Wingnut
@Jazzhead
@NavyCanDo
@mystery-ak
@Gov Bean Counter
@CatherineofAragon
@Bigun
@kartographer

Wingnut

  • Guest
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2016, 11:18:30 pm »
@sinkspur  You said, "...Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party."

I have posted this before on TOS some year or years before.  Perhaps it will help all of you to know what happens in reality.  Let's go back to 2012 when Ron Paul was creating havoc with the national party, but the national party is connected to state parties - like the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone.

<snip />



Now, if you ask me that question, I think Trump is so detestable/mentally unfit, so totally unfit for that position and he would destroy this country, I would vote for someone else and lose my standing in the party.  My soul would not allow me to vote for him.   If delegates want to stay an "in" person, they will go with what the party tells them is their duty, rather than considering the future of the country.

Last night, I saw the Fox film of our founding fathers going against the country of England, and signing the Declaration of Independence, which sealed their deaths if they lost the war of independence.  I thought of the delegates and what they will do or not do for the country in a few days.  I think we need to pray, and I do mean pray, the delegates will consider how important their vote is for the future of the country.
@INVAR
@Wingnut
@Jazzhead
@NavyCanDo
@mystery-ak
@Gov Bean Counter
@CatherineofAragon
@Bigun
@kartographer

Can't argue with anything you said.  I ope the delegates will do what is best for the nation and kick the mental defect to the curb.


Offline Fantom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,030
  • Gender: Male
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2016, 11:21:49 pm »
So you're accepting what we've been saying all along.

At last.

Right...lol, SCOTUS indeed.

What SCOTUS has ruled is that any political party can make it's own rules.  Don't like it.. start your own political party.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline Mechanicos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,350
Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2016, 11:22:37 pm »
This ruling is theater nothing more, Hes still bound and subject to National and State Party rules.

http://thebullelephant.com/freedom-of-association-continues-to-trump-vas-criminal-laws/
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17