Author Topic: All delegates are unbound  (Read 6354 times)

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Offline ABX

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All delegates are unbound
« on: July 11, 2016, 03:58:13 pm »
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....Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.

Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.....

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/287198-all-delegates-are-unbound


Offline ABX

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 04:05:23 pm »

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 04:06:27 pm »
More bull from the anti-Trump crowd for the lo-infos. USSC put this away long ago.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 04:14:45 pm »
Clever #nevertrump tricksters, ignore the will of the voters ?? #nevertrumpers are sore losers.

The party elites, eastern liberal "Republicans," phony ass conservatives, journalists like Bill Kristol, politicos like Jeb Bush, and the #nevertrumpers go to their knees before these operators ?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 04:25:40 pm »
More bull from the anti-Trump crowd for the lo-infos. USSC put this away long ago.

The Supreme Court has never ruled on a party regulation.  That's silly.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline INVAR

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 04:25:56 pm »
More bull from the anti-Trump crowd for the lo-infos. USSC put this away long ago.

Links and proof?

When did the Sentencing Commission or SCOTUS unlawfully intervene on how political parties must operate and by what rules they must employ and enforce????
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 04:27:42 pm »
Clever #nevertrump tricksters, ignore the will of the voters ?? #nevertrumpers are sore losers.

The party elites, eastern liberal "Republicans," phony ass conservatives, journalists like Bill Kristol, politicos like Jeb Bush, and the #nevertrumpers go to their knees before these operators ?

Blame your boy.  Instead of working to unify the party and act like an adult, he's spent the last two months making a fool of himself, praise dictators, tweet out anti-semitic symbols, and continue to trash fellow Republicans.

It's his fault that he's facing a revolt.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 04:30:54 pm »
The Supreme Court has never ruled on a party regulation.  That's silly.
USSC ruled on Party rules vs Delegates trying to vote as they wanted. Bound Delegates are party rules under contract via the states to the delegates who have NO voting rights on their own but only the authority to vote as given to them by their State via the Party. Ron Paul redux. All that's going to happen is a lot of Cruz fanatics are going to be kicked out without having accomplished anything. 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline sinkspur

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 04:33:09 pm »
USSC ruled on Party rules vs Delegates trying to vote as they wanted. Bound Delegates are party rules under contract via the states to the delegates who have NO voting rights on their own but only the authority to vote as given to them by their State via the Party. Ron Paul redux. All that's going to happen is a lot of Cruz fanatics are going to be kicked out without having accomplished anything.

Please provide a link to that decision.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 04:34:40 pm »
Please provide a link to that decision.
So you admit you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 04:35:51 pm »
@AbaraXas
Hey.  Thanks for the info. :flag:
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 04:40:23 pm by ConstitutionRose »
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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 04:36:09 pm »
Please provide a link to that decision.

His link goes back to  The Trump Orange Site or TOS where someone posted that. 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 04:45:31 pm »
So you admit you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

No. I'm saying YOU don't know what YOU'RE talking about.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 04:47:52 pm »
Blame your boy.  Instead of working to unify the party and act like an adult, he's spent the last two months making a fool of himself, praise dictators, tweet out anti-semitic symbols, and continue to trash fellow Republicans.

It's his fault that he's facing a revolt.

Bingo.   Since Indiana, all Trump's had to do is start acting like a statesman and the GOP would have united behind him.  Instead,  he's spent more time ripping conservatives than Clinton, continued to treat his campaign like a reality show, and made only half-hearted attempts to fund-raise and build an organization.

It's not a matter of rejecting the will of [a plurality of] the voters.  It's about fixing a problem that cries out to be fixed.  Trump is neither qualified to be President, nor interested in doing what it takes to be President.   His followers (at least those who aren't Democrats) surely don't want Hillary to be the next President.  But the present reality is stark:  nominate Trump, and Hillary's the next President.

The delegates have no moral or legal obligation to commit political suicide.  To the contrary, their duty is to stop the GOP from nominating a sure loser.   Like the nation itself, the GOP is a republic, not a democracy.   
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 04:49:03 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 04:49:49 pm »
So you admit you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

And you admit you can't provide the link? 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline ABX

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2016, 04:58:31 pm »
The closest Supreme Court case I can find that had anything to do with party delegates was DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF U.S. v. WISCONSIN, (1981).


http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/450/107.html


This actually had the opposite result that was being claimed. USSC ruled the State can't force delegates to be seated a certain way- the party chooses that.

Quote
Held:

Wisconsin cannot constitutionally compel the National Party to seat a delegation chosen in a way that violates the Party's rules. Cousins v. Wigoda, 419 U.S. 477 , controlling. Pp. 120-126.

    (a) The National Party and its adherents enjoy a constitutionally protected right of political association under the First Amendment, and [450 U.S. 107, 108]   this freedom to gather in association for the purpose of advancing shared beliefs is protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from infringement by any State, and necessarily presupposes the freedom to identify the people who constitute the association and to limit the association to those people only. Here, the members of the National Party, speaking through their rules, chose to define their associational rights by limiting those who could participate in any binding process leading to the selection of delegates to their National Convention. Pp. 120-122.

    (b) Wisconsin's asserted compelling interests in preserving the overall integrity of the electoral process, providing secrecy of the ballot, increasing voter participation in primaries, and preventing harassment of voters, go to the conduct of the open Presidential preference primary, not to the imposition of voting requirements upon those who, in a separate process, are eventually selected as delegates. Therefore, such asserted interests do not justify the State's substantial intrusion into the associational freedom of members of the National Party. Pp. 124-126.

So yes, the USSC did have a statement about this, one that can actually support #NeverTrump #FreeTheDelegates as they say the State can't over-ride the party rules, thus, the delegates can be freed.

Thanks for making me look that up Mech, sorry it didn't work out for you.

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2016, 04:59:17 pm »
And you admit you can't provide the link?

I'll help him out, because I do remember at least the first part of the link... Http//freerepu,,,something or other.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 05:00:04 pm by NavyCanDo »
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2016, 05:00:01 pm »
United States Supreme Court
DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF U.S. v. WISCONSIN, (1981)
No. 79-1631
Argued: December 8, 1980    Decided: February 25, 1981

Rules of the Democratic Party of the United States (National Party) provide that only those who are willing to affiliate publicly with the Democratic Party may participate in the process of selecting delegates to the Party's National Convention. Wisconsin election laws allow voters to participate in its Democratic Presidential candidate preference primary without regard to party affiliation and without requiring a public declaration of party preference. While the Wisconsin delegates to the National Convention are chosen separately, after the primary, at caucuses of persons who have stated their affiliation with the Democratic Party, those delegates are bound to vote at the Convention in accord with the results of the open primary election. Thus, while Wisconsin's open Presidential preference primary does not itself violate the National Party's rules, the State's mandate that primary results shall determine the allocation of votes cast by the State's delegates at the National Convention does. When the National Party indicated that Wisconsin delegates would not be seated at the 1980 National Convention because the Wisconsin delegate selection system violated the National Party's rules, an original action was brought in the Wisconsin Supreme Court on behalf of the State, seeking a declaration that such system was constitutional as applied to appellants (the National Party and Democratic National Committee) and that they could not lawfully refuse to seat the Wisconsin delegation. Concluding, inter alia, that the State had not impermissibly impaired the National Party's freedom of political association protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments, the Wisconsin Supreme Court held that the State's delegate selection system was constitutional and binding upon appellants and that they could not refuse to seat delegates chosen in accord with Wisconsin law.

Held:

Wisconsin cannot constitutionally compel the National Party to seat a delegation chosen in a way that violates the Party's rules. Cousins v. Wigoda, 419 U.S. 477 , controlling. Pp. 120-126.

    (a) The National Party and its adherents enjoy a constitutionally protected right of political association under the First Amendment, and [450 U.S. 107, 108]   this freedom to gather in association for the purpose of advancing shared beliefs is protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from infringement by any State, and necessarily presupposes the freedom to identify the people who constitute the association and to limit the association to those people only.
Here, the members of the National Party, speaking through their rules, chose to define their associational rights by limiting those who could participate in any binding process leading to the selection of delegates to their National Convention. Pp. 120-122.

    (b) Wisconsin's asserted compelling interests in preserving the overall integrity of the electoral process, providing secrecy of the ballot, increasing voter participation in primaries, and preventing harassment of voters, go to the conduct of the open Presidential preference primary, not to the imposition of voting requirements upon those who, in a separate process, are eventually selected as delegates. Therefore, such asserted interests do not justify the State's substantial intrusion into the associational freedom of members of the National Party. Pp. 124-126.

93 Wis. 2d 473, 287 N. W. 2d 519, reversed.

[More]
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/450/107.html

Here, the Anti-Trump Delegates have publicly admitted they are voting against the RNC aka the Party Rules.  The remedy is to unseat them per the Party's freedom of association rights.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2016, 05:02:14 pm »
The closest Supreme Court case I can find that had anything to do with party delegates was DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF U.S. v. WISCONSIN, (1981).


http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/450/107.html
Actually it says the PARTY has the rights here over the States and the delegates. And here the Anti-Trumps are in the same positions trying to take over the Party and control its direction. 


This actually had the opposite result that was being claimed. USSC ruled the State can't force delegates to be seated a certain way- the party chooses that.

So yes, the USSC did have a statement about this, one that can actually support #NeverTrump #FreeTheDelegates as they say the State can't over-ride the party rules, thus, the delegates can be freed.

Thanks for making me look that up Mech, sorry it didn't work out for you.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline ABX

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2016, 05:02:33 pm »
You actually just posted the Supreme Court cases that provides support for unbinding delegates. It says the State can't compel a delegate- it is based on the party rules. As posted in the original article, party rules state delegates are unbound.

oops.

To recap:
The argument to keep the bound was the State rules, in violation of party rules- USSC said in that case Party rules trump state rules.

Offline ABX

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2016, 05:03:45 pm »
Quote
Actually it says the PARTY has the rights here over the States and the delegates. And here the Anti-Trumps are in the same positions trying to take over the Party and control its direction. 

Ahhh, the Anti-Trump/Free The Delegate coalition are within the party, they are not the States. They are doing it within the party rules. LOL. Sorry about that, exactly opposite what you want.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2016, 05:05:00 pm »

Read the Bolded part which s the law here. It says the Party has the Right to control who can associate and here the Anti-Trumps are in the exact same position of trying to take over the convention vs the Party Rules. You Lose.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Gov Bean Counter

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 05:05:46 pm »


Squealing like a stuck Trump (again) I see.
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Offline ABX

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 05:07:53 pm »
Read the Bolded part which s the law here. It says the Party has the Right to control who can associate and here the Anti-Trumps are in the exact same position of trying to take over the convention vs the Party Rules. You Lose.

Again, the anti-Trump coalition as you call them are doing it within the party (as posted in another thread- it is being done through the RNC Rules Committee). The outside factor that would have bound them were State rules.

Let's recap a bit-
Per the original article- RNC rules state delegates are unbound.
The only thing binding delegates to Trump are State rules.
DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF U.S. v. WISCONSIN, (1981) stated State rules can't override party rules.
#FreeTheDelegates are working within the party, Rules Committee- they are not an outside force.

Offline austingirl

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Re: All delegates are unbound
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2016, 05:08:33 pm »
Bingo.   Since Indiana, all Trump's had to do is start acting like a statesman and the GOP would have united behind him.  Instead,  he's spent more time ripping conservatives than Clinton, continued to treat his campaign like a reality show, and made only half-hearted attempts to fund-raise and build an organization.

It's not a matter of rejecting the will of [a plurality of] the voters.  It's about fixing a problem that cries out to be fixed.  Trump is neither qualified to be President, nor interested in doing what it takes to be President.   His followers (at least those who aren't Democrats) surely don't want Hillary to be the next President.  But the present reality is stark:  nominate Trump, and Hillary's the next President.

The delegates have no moral or legal obligation to commit political suicide.  To the contrary, their duty is to stop the GOP from nominating a sure loser.   Like the nation itself, the GOP is a republic, not a democracy.

Well stated!
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