The Philando Castile shooting just threw into question a central belief people have about the US policing system -- If you comply, you won't be harmed

[SirLinksALot]

SOURCE: BUSINESS INSIDER

URL: http://www.businessinsider.com/philando-castile-shooting-police-commands-2016-7

by: Natasha Bertrand


A 32-year-old black man whose girlfriend said was pulled over by a Minnesota police officer for a broken tail light was shot and killed by the officer late Wednesday night.

His girlfriend said that before he was shot, he allegedly told the officer that he had a concealed weapon in his glove compartment and a license to carry it.

The earliest details emerging from the shooting have led to questions about its implications for a central belief people have about the US policing system, as well as an assertion frequently posited in the wake of police shootings to justify the officers' actions: If you comply with the police, you won't be harmed.

"I've always told my son: The key thing in order to try to survive being stopped by the police is to comply. Whatever they ask you to do — do it," Valerie Castile, Philando Castile's mother, said in an interview with CNN on Thursday morning.

"Don't say nothing. Just do whatever they want you to do. So what's the difference in complying and you get killed anyway?" she said.

Castile's girlfriend, Diamond "Lavish" Reynolds, who was in the vehicle with her 4-year-old daughter at the time and captured the aftermath of the shooting in a Facebook live stream, asserted in the video that her boyfriend informed the officer — who has not been identified — that he had a concealed weapon and a license to carry.

"He let the officer know that he had a firearm, and he was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm," she said.

The officer, employed by the St. Anthony's Police Department in the Minnesota suburb of Falcon Heights, near St. Paul, could be heard shouting expletives and screaming, "I told him not to reach for it!"

Reynolds responded: "You told him to get his ID, sir — his driver's license."

Police have not yet provided a detailed account of the incident. St. Anthony Police Sgt. Jon Mangseth did not tell reporters the reasons for the traffic stop, but he said that shots were fired at some point.

Chuck Drago, a former police chief in Florida with over 30 years of experience in law enforcement and government, declined to comment on the shooting since only the aftermath was recorded. He noted, however, that officers are typically instructed to clearly communicate their fears and expectations to a person who says they have a gun.

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[bolobaby]

How about the guy in SC who pulled into a gas station, was pulled over by a cop for not wearing his seat belt, and was asked to produce his driver's license? When he reached back into the car to get the driver's license, the cop shot him.

Insane.

This cop is a complete idiot. Anyone who ANNOUNCES they are a concealed carry holder, in compliance with the law, is typically ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS.

The problem is that we have lied to cops and told them they have the most dangerous job in America. They don't. It's not even in the top ten. It's like #15. Cops need to recognize that not every situation is a guns drawn, shoot first situation.

[Timber Rattler]

The problem is that we have lied to cops and told them they have the most dangerous job in America. They don't. It's not even in the top ten. It's like #15. Cops need to recognize that not every situation is a guns drawn, shoot first situation.

Yeah, I watched the girlfriend's video, and it made me sick.  The way the cop was behaving after the fact made it clear that he knew he had screwed up badly and is probably going to jail.

And yeah, I think the problems with the police stem from the way they are trained these days, through their paramilitary style academies, with the following results:

1) LEO culture instills an "us vs them" mentality within the various police forces across the country, in which cops don't consider themselves as "peace officers" or even civilians or members of the community anymore, but instead think of themselves as "warriors."

2) LEO culture demands that "officer safety" takes priority over "public safety," resulting in trigger happy cops who escalate encounters way too easily and then always shoot at center mass to kill, when other non-lethal alternatives, like Tasers, might be more appropriate.

[ABX]

The problem is that we have lied to cops and told them they have the most dangerous job in America. They don't. It's not even in the top ten. It's like #15. Cops need to recognize that not every situation is a guns drawn, shoot first situation.

I've been pulled over twice in the past year (yea, I'm a bit of a lead foot - always get warnings though). In both cases, the officer approached the car with his hand on his sidearm as if his first instinct is to anticipate a shootout even though statistically it is one of the lowest probability items a traffic cop will face. Mind you, this is a mid sized East Texas town, I drive a Volvo (no spinning rims or strong bass), wearing a suit, and the neighborhood I was pulled over in the last time consisted of homes close to a million dollars (which for our town, aren't too many).  So even lower on the probability scale that he is in danger. Most people probably wouldn't even have noticed but it clearly stood out to me as he walked up he was ready to draw on me (or anyone he had pulled over) if he felt slightly threatened.

Everyone is so on edge these days the first thought is that any conflict could be deadly even if the statistics don't stand behind it.

[INVAR]

Perception becoming reality that your chances of surviving a home invasion by thugs is greater than when you get pulled over for a seatbelt violation by police.

[geronl]

Meanwhile Black Lives Matter is in Louisiana (or something) protesting for a pedophile...

[goatprairie]

Perception becoming reality that your chances of surviving a home invasion by thugs is greater than when you get pulled over for a seatbelt violation by police.

If you do what a policeman tells you to do, your chances of getting shot are about zero.  There are maybe 400 police shootings of motorists per year.
Only a few of those are questionable.
How many times do you think Americans are stopped every year?  In 2012 more than 26 million people were pulled over.
Now tell me again if you'd rather be pulled over by a cop or have thugs invade your house.
And yes, I've been stopped by an exceptionally nasty cop. But he didn't shoot me. Because I did everything he said.

[truth_seeker]

Sadly for innocents, the cops are trained to take minimum risks, regarding their own safety.

Hence innocent people get shot or otherwise harmed. In my area, it is whites and Hispanics, btw.

A few years ago cops shot dead, a white teenage girl with a knife in a schoolyard. More recently they beat/strangled to death a white mentally ill man in Fullerton. Another incident was an Hispanic was shot dead at night, thinking he was turning around with a firearm. Turned out he was not armed.

And never a problem over these incidents. Cops need better and different training, IMO.

Considering overtime and retirement cops are highly paid these days. Let them take more risks, for their money.

[goatprairie]

Sadly for innocents, the cops are trained to take minimum risks, regarding their own safety.

Hence innocent people get shot or otherwise harmed. In my area, it is whites and Hispanics, btw.

A few years ago cops shot dead, a white teenage girl with a knife in a schoolyard. More recently they beat/strangled to death a white mentally ill man in Fullerton. Another incident was an Hispanic was shot dead at night, thinking he was turning around with a firearm. Turned out he was not armed.

And never a problem over these incidents. Cops need better and different training, IMO.

Considering overtime and retirement cops are highly paid these days. Let them take more risks, for their money.

No defense for bad cops, but how many of these incidents occur annually?  You have to keep in mind how many millions of times cops have situations. There will always be millions of potentially dangerous situations every year that cops find themselves involved. You will always have some incompetence and some situations that could have been handled better.
But....ahem..... certain "people" are making this out to be a lot worse than it actually is.

[INVAR]

If you do what a policeman tells you to do, your chances of getting shot are about zero.  There are maybe 400 police shootings of motorists per year.
Only a few of those are questionable.
How many times do you think Americans are stopped every year?  In 2012 more than 26 million people were pulled over.
Now tell me again if you'd rather be pulled over by a cop or have thugs invade your house.
And yes, I've been stopped by an exceptionally nasty cop. But he didn't shoot me. Because I did everything he said.

I said perception becoming reality.

And yes, I would rather thugs break in my house than getting pulled over by police.  I know how to deal with thugs in my house, and I will survive quite well thank you. 

Not so much should some cop with an attitude decide to pull me over for a busted tail light.

I have no love lost for me with police.  I had my own personal nightmare dealing with thug cops acting as judge and jury without warrant.

[HoustonSam]

But....ahem..... certain "people" are making this out to be a lot worse than it actually is.

If you mean that people are making this situation out to be more common than it is, then you have a fair point.  But the specific situation in question cannot be "worse than it actually is" for the man who was killed or for his family.

[sinkspur]

No defense for bad cops, but how many of these incidents occur annually?  You have to keep in mind how many millions of times cops have situations. There will always be millions of potentially dangerous situations every year that cops find themselves involved. You will always have some incompetence and some situations that could have been handled better.
But....ahem..... certain "people" are making this out to be a lot worse than it actually is.

It should NEVER happen.  There is no excuse for a cop shooting a man who has TOLD HIM HE HAS A CONCEALED WEAPON!!!  That's what all CCL holders are told to tell cops when they're stopped.

I'll tell you what happened here.  The guy was black, he reached into his pocket and the scared cop shot him.  As the governor said "If this had been a white couple, they'd still be alive."

Too many trigger happy cops these days.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Step back and take a deep breath.

I don't think we have any of the crucial details yet and, true to form, our idiot [P]resident is weighing in on this shooting. Just ignore the fact that shootings by blacks just passed 2,000 in Chicago.

Watch the video and ask yourself, why is this woman filming a selfie while her :boyfriend" slowly expires beside her while groaning. The agitated cop is outside the vehicle and clearly wired and stressed out. Yet, our on-the-spot witness is as cool as a cucumber reporting things in a clear, modulated voice that suits a stroll through the produce section at your local grocery far more than sitting next to a man just shot that is your love interest.

We shall see. We shall see.

[ABX]

Watch the video and ask yourself, why is this woman filming a selfie while her :boyfriend" slowly expires beside her while groaning. The agitated cop is outside the vehicle and clearly wired and stressed out. Yet, our on-the-spot witness is as cool as a cucumber reporting things in a clear, modulated voice that suits a stroll through the produce section at your local grocery far more than sitting next to a man just shot that is your love interest.

Self protection and fear. 'Calm' is a factor of demeanor and experience handling stressful situations. She probably knew if she did anything other than keep her hands up with the camera in plain sight so there was no doubt of what it was, she could get her or her child in the back seat shot. As for recording, that's becoming pretty commonplace these days. We are almost to the point of Russia where everyone is starting to get cameras in their cars and people are recording everything- especially now that Facebook has the new 'check in' live video like she used. My feed is full of it, everyone is using it so it wasn't like she did something unusual for her. It was a wise move on her part and she probably saved her and her child's life.

[ABX]

It should NEVER happen.  There is no excuse for a cop shooting a man who has TOLD HIM HE HAS A CONCEALED WEAPON!!!  That's what all CCL holders are told to tell cops when they're stopped.

Standard logic would be if someone is a CCW holder and correctly identifies himself as such, as required by law, he is not only a law abiding citizen (except for that darn taillight- criminal!!!) but would be someone extra trustworthy in pretty much any situation like that because he has undergone a background check (multiple) and training.

[Timber Rattler]

I've been pulled over twice in the past year (yea, I'm a bit of a lead foot - always get warnings though). In both cases, the officer approached the car with his hand on his sidearm as if his first instinct is to anticipate a shootout even though statistically it is one of the lowest probability items a traffic cop will face. Mind you, this is a mid sized East Texas town, I drive a Volvo (no spinning rims or strong bass), wearing a suit, and the neighborhood I was pulled over in the last time consisted of homes close to a million dollars (which for our town, aren't too many).  So even lower on the probability scale that he is in danger. Most people probably wouldn't even have noticed but it clearly stood out to me as he walked up he was ready to draw on me (or anyone he had pulled over) if he felt slightly threatened.

Everyone is so on edge these days the first thought is that any conflict could be deadly even if the statistics don't stand behind it.

Same here, and both times, the county deputies approached me with their hands on their weapons, ready to draw and blast away if I made any sudden moves.  Not community friendly at all.

[INVAR]

Self protection and fear. 'Calm' is a factor of demeanor and experience handling stressful situations. She probably knew if she did anything other than keep her hands up with the camera in plain sight so there was no doubt of what it was, she could get her or her child in the back seat shot. As for recording, that's becoming pretty commonplace these days. We are almost to the point of Russia where everyone is starting to get cameras in their cars and people are recording everything- especially now that Facebook has the new 'check in' live video like she used. My feed is full of it, everyone is using it so it wasn't like she did something unusual for her. It was a wise move on her part and she probably saved her and her child's life.

This is more true than you know.

In the case my kids suffered two years ago, all the video and audio evidence from the police suddenly went 'missing' and was "accidentally deleted" - four officers, two cars with video and 4 audio mics on the 4 cops.  Our own attorney was threatened to force my daughter to take a plea deal.

Had both my kids been recording like this woman was (though they were in their own house with the door shut and locked and they refused to let the police in) we might have saved tens of thousands of dollars and two years of our lives under stress because the case the cops brought to cover their unlawful entry at a wrong address would have been thrown out two years before it eventually was.

We live in a country that is now as corrupt, heinous and lawless as the old Soviet Union.  It's now a good idea to record everything because there is no law for the king and his men, while us serfs can have boots upon our necks 'by law'.

[WorkingClassFilth]

I am not taking sides either way on this shooting, however, many here are already taking the deceased's supposed statement that he was a CCL as true gospel. WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

The cop, OTOH, is clearly agitated - as anyone would be after shooting somebody - and people are saying he is clearly guilty of screwing up. WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

Also, we hear that the innocent maid filming herself and her dying boyfriend is cool as a cucumber because this is a natural reaction in a dangerous situation. Pardon me, but I have seen a few people in tragic situations and they rarely act this way. But, more to the point . . . WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

Finally, the [P]resident makes himself a figure in this shooting as though he has any reason to be involved. Truth is, he uses every issue to push an agenda even if it has nothing to do with running the nation. WE KNOW THAT.

[Chieftain]

It should NEVER happen.  There is no excuse for a cop shooting a man who has TOLD HIM HE HAS A CONCEALED WEAPON!!!  That's what all CCL holders are told to tell cops when they're stopped.

I'll tell you what happened here.  The guy was black, he reached into his pocket and the scared cop shot him.  As the governor said "If this had been a white couple, they'd still be alive."

Too many trigger happy cops these days.

yep... it made me want to vomit to hear that cop shrieking in panic over what he had just done, while still pointing his goddam gun into the goddam car with his goddam finger on the goddam trigger!!!!

This cop had no business being in uniform with a reaction like this.  I clearly understand the unsafe situations cops face, but this was not one of them.

 

[sinkspur]

I am not taking sides either way on this shooting, however, many here are already taking the deceased's supposed statement that he was a CCL as true gospel. WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

The cop, OTOH, is clearly agitated - as anyone would be after shooting somebody - and people are saying he is clearly guilty of screwing up. WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

Also, we hear that the innocent maid filming herself and her dying boyfriend is cool as a cucumber because this is a natural reaction in a dangerous situation. Pardon me, but I have seen a few people in tragic situations and they rarely act this way. But, more to the point . . . WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

Finally, the [P]resident makes himself a figure in this shooting as though he has any reason to be involved. Truth is, he uses every issue to push an agenda even if it has nothing to do with running the nation. WE KNOW THAT.

The sonofabitch cop is still pointing his gun at the guy as he's dying!!  Yeah, he's agitated.  He knows good and well that he's going to jail. And he doesn't give a damn about the guy he shot.

 That girl starting the video may have saved her and her child's life.

[sinkspur]

Shooting of "Mr. Phil" shocks Minnesota school colleagues

http://bigstory.ap.org/e0f1ab4bb1fd4272b5302b9a3483021b

Philando Castile put on a suit and tie to interview for a supervisory position in the school district where he had worked since he was a teenager. He told the interviewer his goal was to one day "sit on the other side of this table."

His upbeat disposition won him the job.

"He stood out because he was happy, friendly and related to people well," said Katherine Holmquist-Burks, principal at J.J. Hill Montessori in St. Paul, Minnesota, who hired him to oversee the school cafeteria.

[ABX]

This is more true than you know.

In the case my kids suffered two years ago, all the video and audio evidence from the police suddenly went 'missing' and was "accidentally deleted" - four officers, two cars with video and 4 audio mics on the 4 cops.  Our own attorney was threatened to force my daughter to take a plea deal.

Had both my kids been recording like this woman was (though they were in their own house with the door shut and locked and they refused to let the police in) we might have saved tens of thousands of dollars and two years of our lives under stress because the case the cops brought to cover their unlawful entry at a wrong address would have been thrown out two years before it eventually was.

We live in a country that is now as corrupt, heinous and lawless as the old Soviet Union.  It's now a good idea to record everything because there is no law for the king and his men, while us serfs can have boots upon our necks 'by law'.

Now, with Facebook live check in, Google plus backup, and various other apps, videos shouldn't accidentally go missing any more. As they are recorded, they go directly to the cloud. Someone could take the phone from you and smash it, and with the possible exception of a second or two, nothing would be lost.

[WorkingClassFilth]

The sonofabitch cop is still pointing his gun at the guy as he's dying!!  Yeah, he's agitated.  He knows good and well that he's going to jail. And he doesn't give a damn about the guy he shot.

 That girl starting the video may have saved her and her child's life.

We don't KNOW a damn thing. Everything is suppostion so far and it is fueling mass hysteria in this country. You sound like the BLM folks in the wake of every cop shooting in the last two years. If the cop is bad, he'll get his. If not, the propaganda value has already been paid in full.

Right wing nuts are nuts just like lefty nuts.

[sinkspur]

We don't KNOW a damn thing. Everything is suppostion so far and it is fueling mass hysteria in this country. You sound like the BLM folks in the wake of every cop shooting in the last two years. If the cop is bad, he'll get his. If not, the propaganda value has already been paid in full.

Right wing nuts are nuts just like lefty nuts.

We know what we saw in the video.  And the video clearly shows the cop doing nothing to help the guy he just (wrongly) shot as he lay there bleeding to death.  Instead, he stood and pointed his gun at the woman and told her to keep her hands where they were.  Even SHE couldn't help her dying boyfriend.

I'll gladly wear "nut" if it means condemning the actions of this bastard cop.

[Charlespg]

We don't KNOW a damn thing. Everything is suppostion so far and it is fueling mass hysteria in this country. You sound like the BLM folks in the wake of every cop shooting in the last two years. If the cop is bad, he'll get his. If not, the propaganda value has already been paid in full.

Right wing nuts are nuts just like lefty nuts.

Well I'm a Right wing nut then

This damm mouse humper should tried  and convicted  and then  publicly  hanged
While his colleagues  are forced to watch  just like in the 19th century military executions 

Rinse ,rather repeat until these ass****  get the message that  being  a cop is not a excuse ...

No fan of thug lives matter but this is bullshit