I was fired from my internship for writing a proposal for a more flexible dress code

[geronl]

SJW's usually try to get their agenda into the door by proposing "Codes of Conduct" which try to regulate how people think even off-work.

[Cyber Liberty]

SJW's usually try to get their agenda into the door by proposing "Codes of Conduct" which try to regulate how people think even off-work.

The manager in this story probably spotted that from a mile away.  I'm sure it pissed him off to have these punks try to push him around.

[raml]

When I was back in the working world I was an insurance agent. I trained new comers in their first 90 days many times. I remember one who wore very sexy clothing and was warned twice by me and she also wore fake nails and trying to type peoples responses when on the phone took her forever. I gave her one more chance before firing her and she still didn't come dressed professionally her excuse was she was looking to get married and needed to look good for the clients who came in so she could get dates. Seriously this was the excuse she gave me so out the door she went. I doubt she understood why though even though she wasn't dumb in fact quite smart book wise just no common sense.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

You probably ought to read the article.

I stand corrected in this instance, but the principle still is valid. If there is inconsistent enforcement of policies, especially when certain employees get lax treatment or no retribution for flagrantly violating standards, do your time, keep your head low, and GTHO of Dodge as soon as you can.

[DB]

Fired for questioning a dress code?  Sure, the company can do it, but I'd love to know who these aholes are.

Dress codes are silly except for a very few professions.  They make NO SENSE for non-client facing jobs.

I worked for IBM for 20 years and nobody was happier to get out of those monkey suits.

They were interns there to learn. It is not their place to try to change to culture of the business they were invited to. They are essentially guests to learn the trade and how that company does business. The bigger point is a business is not a democracy where you get to vote on the rules. When you've earned your position there you can talk about the rules in due time.

I once showed up to an engineering meeting between companies, the other company being RCA laboratories (their telcom group) in Princeton NJ without a tie. I also got into a significant technical disagreement with them. We were from a company in California and this was the mid 80's. This involved satellite communications equipment. The president of RCA laboratories called the CEO of the company I worked for to complain about my disrespecting their people... I found out about it years later... After the meeting I designed a new assembly to replace what I believed to be the problem, that they disagreed with, and it did in fact solve the problem. The good ol days... I was around 22 at the time...

[WAC]

You wrote..."They were interns there to learn. It is not their place to try to change to culture of the business they were invited to. They are essentially guests at to learn the trade and how that company does business. The bigger point is a business is not a democracy where you get to vote on the rules".....

That's right. In my work, even with a dress code simply to stop the bare breasts from falling on tables, to public hair sticking out on a counters, and fanny cracks showing when bending even slightly.... the young people today will ALWAYS push it to the absolute limits when they are even given guidelines....because they are a totally sexualized generation and anything goes in their eyes..and does.

We've had clients offended, (woman don't generally want to see other womans clevages or butt cracks), customers angry and insulted with management for not enforcing the dress code guidelines.......even with the threat of being fired or sent home they still push the envelope to overflowing.

All it takes is one manager willing to act consistantly to change the course. I've seen that happen....it's the lack of enforcement that hurts the business and the client relationships.




 

[Smokin Joe]

I'm trying to be sympathetic towards the interns.

Nope, not working.
I haven't worn a tie to work in 40 years, and at this point, don't own a suit.

However, if you set foot on a drilling location, there is still a dress code: Hard toe shoes/boots, NFPA 2112 compliant outerwear, hard hat, eye protection, gloves, hearing protection where appropriate, breathing protection where appropriate, grooming to allow an effective seal with air packs (in case of H2S).

There is always a 'dress code'.

[hiram1950]

The company was doing them a favor by offering them an internship, and they spit all over it.

The company did them another HUGE favor if they are as bright as they think they are. The next time they encounter a moronic colleague, they can laugh at him or her rather than joining some idiotic cause. This internship may have given them, in one second, a practical education they can use as a foundation that they missed in the coddling years.

On the other hand, their various schools may have prepared them so poorly, they would be better to start over with some minimum wage job and build a proper structure.

Let's hope ALL those starting jobs haven't been destroyed by others who have been likewise trained go through life without ever completing a thought.

[geronl]

Maybe off-campus retail or restaurant work should be a requirement for colleges.

[Bunny Watson]

They're too busy making sure they pass their liberal indoctrination screening to get a real job.  See http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437229/college-admissions-ethical-students-need-apply .

[jmyrlefuller]

However, if you set foot on a drilling location, there is still a dress code: Hard toe shoes/boots, NFPA 2112 compliant outerwear, hard hat, eye protection, gloves, hearing protection where appropriate, breathing protection where appropriate, grooming to allow an effective seal with air packs (in case of H2S).

There is always a 'dress code'.

That is mainly for safety reasons. There are many practical reasons to wear those sorts of things in that field.

It's unclear what kind of field we're dealing with here, and given we have only one side of the story, we may never know the whole truth—how exactly the interns approached management. To me, the whole situation screams of a management overreaction.

These are interns. They're still learning the ins and outs. Key word: LEARNING. If you dump them at the first attempt to get an explanation for something, they learn nothing other than a healthy resentment for corporate America, and that helps nobody.

[Sanguine]

That is mainly for safety reasons. There are many practical reasons to wear those sorts of things in that field.

It's unclear what kind of field we're dealing with here, and given we have only one side of the story, we may never know the whole truth—how exactly the interns approached management. To me, the whole situation screams of a management overreaction.

These are interns. They're still learning the ins and outs. Key word: LEARNING. If you dump them at the first attempt to get an explanation for something, they learn nothing other than a healthy resentment for corporate America, and that helps nobody.

So, Jmyrle, when you go to a wedding or a funeral do you wear a tee shirt and Tevas?  Or, do you dress up a bit?  Maybe even a tie?

Why is that?

[uglybiker]

However, if you set foot on a drilling location, there is still a dress code: Hard toe shoes/boots, NFPA 2112 compliant outerwear, hard hat, eye protection, gloves, hearing protection where appropriate, breathing protection where appropriate, grooming to allow an effective seal with air packs (in case of H2S).

There is always a 'dress code'.

I'm with you. My dress code is set by MSHA.

[mirraflake]

My first job out of college back in mid 80's with my finance degree landed me a job at a top brokerage firm.

Had to wear dark blue or black suit, white shirt, black shoes and conservative ties. Women had  to wear the same but in a dress.

If you got caught not wearing your suit jacket with a client you were written up and second time you were fired. Image was EVERYTHING.


Today I run my own company-same type of business)  and rarely ever wear a suit.

Mostly Docker style pants with a button down shirt with my company logo on it.   If clients don't like it I don't care.  My wife and I have done well and can retire right now and live the rest of our time on easy street but we enjoy working.

My wife dresses the same way her her business.

I only wear a suit at Christmas and Easter mass and  to my wifes moms funeral and my parents funeral ..that's it.

[DB]

My first job out of college back in mid 80's with my finance degree landed me a job at a top brokerage firm.

Had to wear dark blue or black suit, white shirt, black shoes and conservative ties. Women had  to wear the same but in a dress.

If you got caught not wearing your suit jacket with a client you were written up and second time you were fired. Image was EVERYTHING.


Today I run my own company-same type of business)  and rarely ever wear a suit.

Mostly Docker style pants with a button down shirt with my company logo on it.   If clients don't like it I don't care.  My wife and I have done well and can retire right now and live the rest of our time on easy street but we enjoy working.

My wife dresses the same way her her business.

I only wear a suit at Christmas and Easter mass and  to my wifes moms funeral and my parents funeral ..that's it.

I don't even own a tie... ;-)

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm with you. My dress code is set by MSHA.

I have a dress code too.  When I go in, I have to wear clothes.  That's not necessary on days I telecommute.   

[jmyrlefuller]

So, Jmyrle, when you go to a wedding or a funeral do you wear a tee shirt and Tevas?  Or, do you dress up a bit?  Maybe even a tie?

Why is that?

I haven't been to a wedding since I was a kid (I'm not close enough to any of my friends for them to invite me to theirs, apparently). For funerals, I usually go with an all-black outfit, sometimes an overcoat, but almost never a tie—I don't look good with a tie; for one, my neck is too wide to button up most shirts all the way, so often I go with a plain black or dark grey crew-neck or Henley under the overcoat. No one has ever had a problem with my apparel. Some people might insist on it, though—and if that day ever came, I'd tell them "if someone just died and you're worried about me wearing a necktie, perhaps your priorities might need adjusting."

As I said, I'd need to know what kind of field this person's in before I make a judgment. There are more than a few fields out there that are obscenely superficial. Financial services is one. If she's that uncomfortable with such a strict dress code, maybe it's time for her to reconsider her career path.

[DB]

I haven't been to a wedding since I was a kid (I'm not close enough to any of my friends for them to invite me to theirs, apparently). For funerals, I usually go with an all-black outfit, sometimes an overcoat, but almost never a tie—I don't look good with a tie; for one, my neck is too wide to button up most shirts all the way, so often I go with a plain black or dark grey crew-neck or Henley under the overcoat. No one has ever had a problem with my apparel. Some people might insist on it, though—and if that day ever came, I'd tell them "if someone just died and you're worried about me wearing a necktie, perhaps your priorities might need adjusting."

As I said, I'd need to know what kind of field this person's in before I make a judgment. There are more than a few fields out there that are obscenely superficial. Financial services is one. If she's that uncomfortable with such a strict dress code, maybe it's time for her to reconsider her career path.

It doesn't matter what the field is. Business is not a democracy run by the employees much less interns. To make demands of a company that they were guests at is way over the line. The world does not revolve around these people and they need to figure that out.

[Smokin Joe]

It doesn't matter what the field is. Business is not a democracy run by the employees much less interns. To make demands of a company that they were guests at is way over the line. The world does not revolve around these people and they need to figure that out.

If something is so stipulated as a condition of employment, I agree. In this case, what were the interns NOT doing that they took up time petitioning to not have to comply with a condition of employment? Why were they spending their time trying to under cut a rule they had agreed to as a condition of employment instead of working?

There is your cause for dismissal, right there.

[DB]

If something is so stipulated as a condition of employment, I agree. In this case, what were the interns NOT doing that they took up time petitioning to not have to comply with a condition of employment? Why were they spending their time trying to under cut a rule they had agreed to as a condition of employment instead of working?

There is your cause for dismissal, right there.

No argument here. There's a number of legitimate reasons for the dismissal.

[Fishrrman]

DB wrote:
"I don't even own a tie... ;-)"

I own -one- tie, and last put it on in 1979. I don't expect to wear a tie again.
I don't own a suit.
I think I have a sport jacket in the closet (also last worn in 1979 for a career path that never materialized), it won't fit any more...  ;)  (perhaps I ought to donate it to Goodwill)

Got hired on the railroad back in '79, ran engines for 32 years.
No real dress code other than full pants (no shorts) and work shoes.

I -do- have black pants and a white shirt for funerals...

Addendum:
Over the past week I watched both the 1964 film adaptation of "My Fair Lady" and the 1938 film "Pygmalion".
In both, I liked Eliza better as a flower girl. More like my kinda woman... :)

[jmyrlefuller]

It doesn't matter what the field is. Business is not a democracy run by the employees much less interns. To make demands of a company that they were guests at is way over the line. The world does not revolve around these people and they need to figure that out.

There is a difference between a reasonable request and a demand.

The impression I get is that this person was attempting to make a reasonable request, given the evidence she had at her disposal. It was not as if she was threatening management with anything (not that, as an intern, she could have had anything other than perhaps badmouthing the company in public; if she were intent on doing that, she would've named it, and she didn't) and that had she known the whole situation she would have handled it differently. Yet this is only her side of the story. If they had been confrontational and disrespectful about it, then of course there would be grounds for dismissal.

But a reasonable request, or at least an explanation of why there was unequal treatment going on, is by no means childish or spoiled.

I don't care what job you work for, if they're going to treat their employees—or even interns—like pawns, it's not going to turn out well, no matter who they hire. There has to be a certain degree of respect between worker and employer, and that goes both ways. To fire a group en masse because of a disagreement over the dress code, even when none of them actually violated the code, is a little bit overkill.

[HonestJohn]

Probably it's more like she was fired for pretending that she could go all SJW on her manager with a petition from the other interns in the office. A manager is asking for big trouble if he caves to a petition from a bunch of interns as if he were a college dean.

This.  It was the petition.  That's organizing labor into a collective bargaining situation.  Had he accepted, precedence would have been set for the future.

[HonestJohn]

So, Jmyrle, when you go to a wedding or a funeral do you wear a tee shirt and Tevas?  Or, do you dress up a bit?  Maybe even a tie?

Why is that?

I'd say it depends on the situation.  A wedding in the Bahamas, in summer, on the beach... warrants a T-shirt and Tevas, if not swimming gear.

[mirraflake]

Went to a wedding last summer.

Father of the bride wore jeans, work boots, old dirty Harley baseball cap and a worn t shirt with the sleeves cut off-that is how he walked her down the aisle. His wife was dressed in heals and a nice fashionable dress and from the expression on her face it looked like she could eat nails in half. The wife was fit and trim and good looking and my wife said he hopes she divorced his a** over that stunt.

What an a** ruining your daughters wedding that way.