Author Topic: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely  (Read 12033 times)

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Offline Victoria33

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #125 on: June 25, 2016, 02:31:32 am »
I agree, Mesaclone, we have a choice to make.  And it is quite painful to conclude that Trump as President is worse than Clinton as President.  But he is. 
Trump's on the verge of claiming credit for Brexit.  But the lesson of Brexit's victory is to present the issue with tact and seriousness,  with the support of serious, credible leaders.  That's how Brexit won.   The public face of the issue wasn't a ludicrous clownshow.   

Today, Trump did take credit for the Brexit win.  He said it was his big win in the US that caused the Brexit win.  Then, he said running the US is the same as running a golf club and he could do that better than anyone and he could build better than anyone.

He makes me want to throw up every time he opens his mouth.
@CatherineofAragon

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #126 on: June 25, 2016, 02:38:38 am »
Are you saying that the odds of getting 5 heads in a row are the same as getting 1 heads?  I am talking about the "odds" of the same thing happening several times in a row based on the original comment.

I didn't say that. You initially said:

"If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct.  Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip. "

I stated the odds were the same for EACH FLIP using YOUR WORDS. And they are.

If you want odds of five heads in a row, then state that. But I will warn you that each individual flip has the same 50/50 chance for both outcomes.

IOW if you have already flipped twice for two heads, the next flip still has a 50/50 chance for both heads and tails.

 

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #127 on: June 25, 2016, 02:59:45 am »
I didn't say that. You initially said:

"If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct.  Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip. "

I stated the odds were the same for EACH FLIP using YOUR WORDS. And they are.

If you want odds of five heads in a row, then state that. But I will warn you that each individual flip has the same 50/50 chance for both outcomes.

IOW if you have already flipped twice for two heads, the next flip still has a 50/50 chance for both heads and tails.

Whatev.  We're arguing about the same thing now.  Please refer back to the original comment (was it you that even made it? I can't remember anymore.) regarding the "odds" of being correct going up because of already being correct several times in a row.  The part of my statement you should have bolded was the word "repeatedly".  Have a good one.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 03:04:31 am by RoosGirl »

Online Bigun

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #128 on: June 25, 2016, 11:32:17 am »
Today, Trump did take credit for the Brexit win.  He said it was his big win in the US that caused the Brexit win.  Then, he said running the US is the same as running a golf club and he could do that better than anyone and he could build better than anyone.

He makes me want to throw up every time he opens his mouth.
@CatherineofAragon

He's a narcissistic boob!  Bill and Hillary are laughing themselves sick behind the scenes!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Henry Noel

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #129 on: June 25, 2016, 12:19:00 pm »
He's a narcissistic boob!  Bill and Hillary are laughing themselves sick behind the scenes!


Someone else is there, laughing right along with them.
Gee, it feels great to be a gangster!

Online libertybele

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #130 on: June 25, 2016, 12:19:40 pm »
Do you think the GOP will avoid an epic disaster if it steals the nomination from Trump?  That would be a far worse tragedy of irrecoverable proportions.


More and more delegates are wanting to vote their conscious; there is now a court case pending.  Hopefully it will be ruled upon before the convention.  Nothing has been stolen. Nothing will be stolen.  A far worse tragedy would be to allow either an orange buffoon or a criminal to take the presidential oath of office.   :patriot:
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #131 on: June 25, 2016, 01:49:25 pm »
@Mesaclone

Nope.  This isn't a banana republic where someone gets to tell me I MUST vote for so-and-so and there's nothing to be done about it.  NO ONE instructs me on what to do with my vote.  It belongs to no one else; I do not owe it to anyone.  It must be earned.  Neither Trump or Clinton have done anything to earn it, nor will they.  I would not in my wildest dreams consider voting for either of them.  That's MY choice.  How do you like it?

I know it's hard for you folks, only now coming up against a wall of cold, hard reality, but we meant it when we told you we wouldn't vote for Clinton or for her good buddy and donor.  I guess you're going to have to get used to it, or not.  But all the begging and tantruming in the world isn't going to change it.

Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.

As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses".  This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.

That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?

As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.

So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 01:59:46 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Bunny Watson

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #132 on: June 25, 2016, 02:46:29 pm »
You'll vote as you wish, no doubt.
That is qualitatively different....vastly different...than any argument that could be made concerning the policies of Mr Trump which ALSO come with a powerful party infrastructure that supports AND restrains his actionsl


Wait, are we talking about the same "powerful party infrastructure" that every conservative has gnashed his teeth over for the last eight years as it caved to Obama time and again?  The same "powerful party structure" that Trump supporters have been calling to burn down?  If Trump supporters get their way, there will be no GOP party structure left, it will have been burned down. Right?  Isn't that what they wanted? 

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #133 on: June 25, 2016, 03:32:16 pm »
Wait, are we talking about the same "powerful party infrastructure" that every conservative has gnashed his teeth over for the last eight years as it caved to Obama time and again?  The same "powerful party structure" that Trump supporters have been calling to burn down?  If Trump supporters get their way, there will be no GOP party structure left, it will have been burned down. Right?  Isn't that what they wanted?

The party power structure cannot overcome entirely the power of the Executive office, and nobody is arguing that these fellows have strong spines or the will to shut down government when needed. What they do have is the ability and will to rather easily rein in a president of their own party, who...just like a president on the Dem side...cannot achieve anything without his own party's support. Obama, for example, could have achieved nothing without the support of the Dem party....no Obamacare, no Sotomayor, no Kagan, no unrestrained immigration, no government expansion, etecetera. A president, on either side, is restrained by their own party's support structure...its just a fact of political life and trying to deny it is either willful ignorance or outright deception. This doesn't mean a president won't do or try things that some in his party disapprove of...they all obviously do that on occasion...but in general, president's are restrained to policy choices acceptable to the majority of their own party. Its not really a debateable point...unless you simply want to pointlessly argumentative.

As for what Trump supporters want...they want to reform the party not burn it down, and that is exactly what is starting to happen. They want the party structure to be responsive to GOP voters not GOP lobbyists. They want a party that is not held captive by any one faction within its ranks, but one that listens to all the voices in the tent. They want a party that is not afraid to buck political correctness and convention in the face of the Socialist nightmare that has taken over the Democratic party. Most of all, they want to reform the party so that it has appeal to a broader base of Americans, especially blue collar working Americans...and to appeal to people under 30 as well. None of this involves burning anything down, its more akin to upgrading the family's wood panel 1976 station wagon into a modern 2016 SUV.  Similar purpose, better result and broader capability.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 03:39:24 pm by Mesaclone »
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Bunny Watson

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #134 on: June 25, 2016, 04:29:23 pm »
The party power structure cannot overcome entirely the power of the Executive office, and nobody is arguing that these fellows have strong spines or the will to shut down government when needed. What they do have is the ability and will to rather easily rein in a president of their own party, who...just like a president on the Dem side...cannot achieve anything without his own party's support. Obama, for example, could have achieved nothing without the support of the Dem party....no Obamacare, no Sotomayor, no Kagan, no unrestrained immigration, no government expansion, etecetera. A president, on either side, is restrained by their own party's support structure...its just a fact of political life and trying to deny it is either willful ignorance or outright deception. This doesn't mean a president won't do or try things that some in his party disapprove of...they all obviously do that on occasion...but in general, president's are restrained to policy choices acceptable to the majority of their own party. Its not really a debateable point...unless you simply want to pointlessly argumentative.

As for what Trump supporters want...they want to reform the party not burn it down, and that is exactly what is starting to happen. They want the party structure to be responsive to GOP voters not GOP lobbyists. They want a party that is not held captive by any one faction within its ranks, but one that listens to all the voices in the tent. They want a party that is not afraid to buck political correctness and convention in the face of the Socialist nightmare that has taken over the Democratic party. Most of all, they want to reform the party so that it has appeal to a broader base of Americans, especially blue collar working Americans...and to appeal to people under 30 as well. None of this involves burning anything down, its more akin to upgrading the family's wood panel 1976 station wagon into a modern 2016 SUV.  Similar purpose, better result and broader capability.

So we're going to hope that all those establishment, GOPe types will a) survive election and retain control of the House and Senate and b) exert more control over a Donald Trump, president, than they have over Donald Trump, candidate.  Right - just put my faith in the Drumpfmeister and the system.  I thought part of the thrill of the Don was that he was a "deal maker." What's to stop him from crossing over and making deals with the (likely) increased number of Democrats in Congress if he really wants something passed that the GOP disagrees with?  Whatever it takes to get the deal done, right?  Then where does that precious party control come in?  What's to stop him from using executive orders to enforce extra-constitutional desires?  Obama's already paved the way with that one. What will congressional Republicans do then?

And re: "burn it down," I refer you to just a few examples:
1.
from r/The_Donald

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4gcxb8/burn_down_the_gop/
2. See the comments: http://girlsjustwannahaveguns.com/question-should-donald-trump-go-ahead-and-burn-the-gop-down/
3. http://marezilla.com/tag/burn-it-down/

And this was just a quick search of articles. I've been reading comments for months from Trump supporters calling for the GOP to be destroyed.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 04:30:04 pm by Bunny Watson »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #135 on: June 25, 2016, 04:37:53 pm »
When you have thousands of people relying on you for their jobs you commit economic suicide when there is no need to do so at this time. Oh and stop insulting me calling me a liberal because I have real world experience and know what risk reward analysis is. I'm not the one helping to elect the democrat here.

I'll call you what your statements show you are. No more, no less. Don't like it? Stop giving me cause to speak the truth.

Your real world experience got us to the mess we're in today. You and the "Know betters" like you that know nothing but how to frig up a Republic.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #136 on: June 25, 2016, 04:45:04 pm »
I'll call you what your statements show you are. No more, no less. Don't like it? Stop giving me cause to speak the truth.

Your real world experience got us to the mess we're in today. You and the "Know betters" like you that know nothing but how to frig up a Republic.
look in the mirror and take the log out of your own eye, Obviously more conservative Christians agreed with me then you. I stand with the people who but for your tiny group's emotional opinion are known as conservatives. Seems its the anti's trying to do the "know better" here.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #137 on: June 25, 2016, 04:54:03 pm »
look in the mirror and take the log out of your own eye, Obviously more conservative Christians agreed with me then you. I stand with the people who but for your tiny group's emotional opinion are known as conservatives. Seems its the anti's trying to do the "know better" here.

Calling a dogs tail a leg doesn't make it one lib. No conservative, much less an actual Bible believing CHRISTIAN is going to elect a gay agenda backing, Tranny supporting adulterer.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #138 on: June 25, 2016, 04:57:26 pm »
Calling a dogs tail a leg doesn't make it one lib. No conservative, much less an actual Bible believing CHRISTIAN is going to elect a gay agenda backing, Tranny supporting adulterer.
Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2016, 05:04:31 pm »
Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?

Easy. Candidates I vote for are conservative. Since I do not vote for Hillary I am not responsible for her winning. Civics 101. Deal with it.

Candidates I vote for do not have personal audiences with Bill Clinton to discuss running for office.

Candidates I vote for do not have Clintons on guest lists or have ever uttered a word of praise for her.

Now YOU answer MY question. "Can YOU say the same?" We all know you cannot. So the liberal supporter here is you.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2016, 05:08:53 pm »
Easy. Candidates I vote for are conservative. Since I do not vote for Hillary I am not responsible for her winning. Civics 101. Deal with it.

Candidates I vote for do not have personal audiences with Bill Clinton to discuss running for office.

Candidates I vote for do not have Clintons on guest lists or have ever uttered a word of praise for her.

Now YOU answer MY question. "Can YOU say the same?" We all know you cannot. So the liberal supporter here is you.
It is noted you FAILED to answer the question.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2016, 05:13:51 pm »
It is noted you FAILED to answer the question.

It is so noted you lack the ability to read.

And the integrity to admit it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 05:14:17 pm by Norm Lenhart »

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2016, 05:21:01 pm »
It is so noted you lack the ability to read.

And the integrity to admit it.

The Question was:
"Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?"
The actions include in part;
Attacking the Presumptive Republican Nominee,
Working to install a RINO at the convention,
Sabotaging the work of the largest number of voters for a candidate in any GOP primary ever,
Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;
Aligning with and using far left anti-American forces;
Knowing any action to replace Trump at the Convention will result in a massive loss for the GOP in November worse then anything you think can happen with Trump.
Etc.
 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2016, 05:33:17 pm »

Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;

First I clearly answered you in the opening of my post. That you cant read is not my problem.

You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.

That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2016, 05:47:16 pm »
First I clearly answered you in the opening of my post. That you cant read is not my problem.

You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.

That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.
Notice none of the actions listed had anything to do with how you were voting. So No you tried to change the subject and got busted. You have not answered the question asked.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #145 on: June 25, 2016, 05:51:24 pm »
Please refrain from calling POSTERS here liberals!
That goes for both sides.
We consider that and RINO, personal attacks.
Your opinion is not fact!


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2016, 05:57:38 pm »
The Question was:
"Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?"
The actions include in part;
Attacking the Presumptive Republican Nominee,
Working to install a RINO at the convention,
Sabotaging the work of the largest number of voters for a candidate in any GOP primary ever,
Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;
Aligning with and using far left anti-American forces;
Knowing any action to replace Trump at the Convention will result in a massive loss for the GOP in November worse then anything you think can happen with Trump.
Etc.

@Mechanicos give you a lot of credit @Norm Lenhart .  I did not realize the influence you had over the RNC and republican electors.  You are a political god!

Offline sinkspur

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2016, 06:09:28 pm »
Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.

As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses".  This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.

That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?

As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.

So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. ]b]Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.[/b]

It is just condescending garbage like this that reinforces #NeverTrump.  YOU pimped and pushed this sonofabitch and saddled the rest of us with him and now you want to drag US over the cliff.

Every poll shows a consistent 20% of voters will not vote for Trump or Hillary.  Don't look for that to change.  We know who Hillary is and we know who Trump is, and the dogs are not going to eat that vomit.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 06:10:05 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2016, 06:12:58 pm »
give you a lot of credit @Norm Lenhart .  I did not realize the influence you had over the RNC and republican electors.  You are a political god!
Clever and funny reply RoosGirl.  TBR is blessed to have you posting here.

Offline Henry Noel

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Re: A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2016, 06:14:38 pm »
You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.

That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.

I take that to mean that if you support a liberal, you're a conservative. But if you don't support said liberal, you're a liberal, because you're effectively voting for a liberal.

I'll retire to Bedlam.
Gee, it feels great to be a gangster!