Author Topic: Trump just caved on gun control  (Read 11082 times)

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Offline Fantom

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2016, 09:02:46 pm »
Sale of machine guns have been illegal since the 1930s. Was that a cave to anti gunners? Was it an affront to the second amendment for congress to make a fully automatic weapon illegal for sale to the public?

Not illegal. You can buy one, or a thousand if you wish, today.  It does take an onerous.. and yes "affront" to the RKBA. But they are legal to buy.
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Offline Fantom

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2016, 09:07:39 pm »
Apples and hand grenades. Law abiding citizens had no need or desire to posses machine guns.

Really? No desire.. I doubt that, so much for freedom and that pursuit of happiness thing.

Need.. well the SS uses automatic weapons to protect Presidents, so there seems to be a need.

Military grade weapons are the Right of every American to own.. and carry... at all times if they wish. If it is issued as the standard weapon to any soldier on the world.. it is our Right to own it as well.
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2016, 09:18:31 pm »
10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
[/b]

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85–861, § 1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, § 524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)

Note 32 USC 313 extends the upper age to 64.

So By United States Code man and women between 17 and 64 can own any weapon used by a military person.
The letters of Marquis in the US Constitution indicate there is no limit on what kind can be owned by private citizens either.
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2016, 09:20:31 pm »
Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11
Joanna Plucinska @joannaplucinska June 24, 2015

From Newsweek.

We ARE the enemies of the State, according to the left.

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

So....how much of a leap is it to midnight raids?  You know....to get guns out of right-wingers' hands.

We're 'here', Luis.

We're here!    **nononono*
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2016, 09:53:25 pm »
Quote from: don-o jlink=topic=211948.msg929294#msg929294 date=1466021088
Apples and hand grenades. Law abiding citizens had no need or desire to posses machine guns.

Nonsense.  I'm law abiding and would LOVE a machine gun.   I'd also like a new manufacture full auto firearm.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2016, 10:02:16 pm »
I have mixed emotions about this.  On the one hand you have the 2nd amendment, which is the "right to bear arms".  Ok what exactly is that?  At the time it was written, they referred to pistols and rifles....not sure many citizens owned a cannon.  So basically they were saying pistols and rifles.

Ok...here we are in 2016 with all kinds of weapons available on the open market.  What should be legal and what should be illegal?  Can I own a hellfire missile?...doubtful.  So what exactly can we own and how is this determined. 

I've fired an "assault rifle" and it was fun to shoot, but not practical for hunting, unless you want to slaughter hogs, which may not be such a bad idea.  Personally I don't own one and would likely never buy one, just because it's not practical.  If you are looking to protect yourself from your overreaching government I could see owning one.

If someone breaks into my house at night....the last thing I'd be looking for is my "assault rifle", it would be my loaded handgun.  They make fun toys.....but.......  Like I say, I have mixed emotions about them......

You fell smack into the liberal viewpoint.  The second amendment is about freedom, not hunting.

Freedom to protect oneself from those who wish you harm, whether others, invaders or our own govt.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2016, 10:04:14 pm »
Which means: Other than personal enrichment, the man has no core values.

Nor for that matter belief in God.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2016, 10:27:57 pm »
I'm not comfortable at all with the Government defining who the "enemy of the State" is or what it means.  The last time they tried that they FAILED miserably. You do remember Executive Order 9066 that stripped the constitutions rights away from tens of thousands of good loyal Americans in 1942?      I will not stand by and allow that to happen again.

Throwing Americans of Japanese and German descent into camps who lived far from the coasts and represented no threat at all was pretty insidious (still treated a lot better than any other country treated prisoners of course), but then to decide to lock up those with Taiwanese and Korean ancestry (victims of Japanese aggression!!) along with the Japanese was downright insane.

geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2016, 10:29:16 pm »
So....how much of a leap is it to midnight raids?  You know....to get guns out of right-wingers' hands.


If all they have to do is throw our names on some list to deny our rights, then they would do it in a heartbeat. Millions of names at a time.

Offline oldmomster

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2016, 10:33:18 pm »
@oldmomster

When Janet Napolitano was DHS Secretary, she put US veterans in the "watch list" group...among others considered potential terrorists.

yes, what happens when dem'RATS are in control is disgraceful, especially the lack of respect for our Veterans.

geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2016, 10:37:19 pm »
NRA has rejected Trump's idea of changing their position, by the way

geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2016, 10:39:40 pm »
http://theresurgent.com/nra-to-trump-our-position-on-terror-watch-list-gun-ban-has-not-changed/

We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA’s position on this issue has not changed.


Simply being on a watch list is not enough for any sane person.

Offline Cowboyway

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2016, 10:40:42 pm »
I have mixed emotions about this.  On the one hand you have the 2nd amendment, which is the "right to bear arms".  Ok what exactly is that?  At the time it was written, they referred to pistols and rifles....not sure many citizens owned a cannon.  So basically they were saying pistols and rifles.

Ok...here we are in 2016 with all kinds of weapons available on the open market.  What should be legal and what should be illegal?  Can I own a hellfire missile?...doubtful.  So what exactly can we own and how is this determined. 


Yeah, there's all kinds of weapons on the market but what is typically found in your local gun shop?  Pistols and rifles.  Same as when the Founders were alive but more efficient.

Quote
I've fired an "assault rifle" and it was fun to shoot, but not practical for hunting, unless you want to slaughter hogs, which may not be such a bad idea.  Personally I don't own one and would likely never buy one, just because it's not practical. 

That's crazy talk.  Maybe not much use for duck hunting but very practical for hogs, deer, yotes, groundhogs and about any other furry critter that roams north America.

Quote
If someone breaks into my house at night....the last thing I'd be looking for is my "assault rifle", it would be my loaded handgun.

The purpose of a handgun is to give you time to get to your rifle and the AR15 is the perfect choice for self defense.

Quote
They make fun toys.....but.......  Like I say, I have mixed emotions about them......

Then don't get one but don't go all liberal on us and advocate for another useless 'assault weapons' ban.



"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that you won't need it until they try to take it away."---Thomas Jefferson

Offline musiclady

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2016, 10:40:54 pm »
@oldmomster

When Janet Napolitano was DHS Secretary, she put US veterans in the "watch list" group...among others considered potential terrorists.

People with veterans license plates and those with pro-life bumper stickers were also on that list as potential terrorists.

Watch lists are arbitrary, and denying rights to any arbitrary group is despicable.

Can you imagine that if Obama got his way, people who served our country and people who value the life of the unborn could be on a terror watch list, and denied the right to bear arms by Donald Trump??

The world has gone mad!

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Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline oldmomster

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #89 on: June 15, 2016, 10:44:35 pm »
NRA has rejected Trump's idea of changing their position, by the way

'The NRA expanded on its view in a statement Wednesday.

"Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing," the statement said.

"If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed."

The NRA said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and a majority of the Senate agrees, accusing President Obama of playing politics.

Trump tweeted earlier Wednesday he plans to meet with the NRA.'


http://thehill.com/regulation/283594-nra-to-trump-no-terrorism-gun-ban

geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #90 on: June 15, 2016, 10:46:35 pm »
A proposal to ban gun sales to those on watch lists was voted down in December.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2016, 11:09:48 pm »
Trump doesn't give a damn about Republicans in Congress:



Why don't you try to win the election by yourself, DH.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 11:11:04 pm by sinkspur »
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2016, 11:12:42 pm »
A proposal to ban gun sales to those on watch lists was voted down in December.

I'm surprised that Trump didn't claim he was the first to come up with the idea.

You know, kinda like that Wall thingy??? 
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2016, 11:25:56 pm »
Throwing Americans of Japanese and German descent into camps who lived far from the coasts and represented no threat at all was pretty insidious (still treated a lot better than any other country treated prisoners of course), but then to decide to lock up those with Taiwanese and Korean ancestry (victims of Japanese aggression!!) along with the Japanese was downright insane.

And to top is off the Supreme Court decided it was A-okay... Twice... **nononono*
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2016, 11:29:27 pm »
And to top is off the Supreme Court decided it was A-okay... Twice... **nononono*


As someone who is not a fan of Islam, I don't like rounding up American citizens who are just Muslim and just living their daily lives.. 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2016, 11:58:36 pm »
So....how much of a leap is it to midnight raids?  You know....to get guns out of right-wingers' hands.

We're 'here', Luis.

We're here!    **nononono*

We're just a simple EO signed by President Trump away from that.
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Offline verga

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2016, 12:03:54 am »
Lol- one of the trumpanzees said something like 'Hell no, don't go wobbly on us Trump" Apparently not realizing just how wobbly trump has always been
By definition that is why they are still there. Those of us intelligent enough to see his "wobbly side"
 are here.
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geronl

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2016, 12:25:57 am »


He has no campaign infrastructure, will depend on the GOP itself to run his campaign and very little campaign money, says he'll rely on the media because he can't afford to run ads.

But he's going to "go it alone".  **nononono*

Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #98 on: June 16, 2016, 12:32:18 am »
I have mixed emotions about this.  On the one hand you have the 2nd amendment, which is the "right to bear arms".  Ok what exactly is that?  At the time it was written, they referred to pistols and rifles....not sure many citizens owned a cannon.  So basically they were saying pistols and rifles.

Ok...here we are in 2016 with all kinds of weapons available on the open market.  What should be legal and what should be illegal?  Can I own a hellfire missile?...doubtful.  So what exactly can we own and how is this determined. 

I've fired an "assault rifle" and it was fun to shoot, but not practical for hunting, unless you want to slaughter hogs, which may not be such a bad idea.  Personally I don't own one and would likely never buy one, just because it's not practical.  If you are looking to protect yourself from your overreaching government I could see owning one.

If someone breaks into my house at night....the last thing I'd be looking for is my "assault rifle", it would be my loaded handgun.  They make fun toys.....but.......  Like I say, I have mixed emotions about them......

In 1780, muskets were combat arms.  They also were used for hunting.  There's no words about hunting or self-defense in the Second Amendment, and the founding fathers were very competent, precise, and heroic individuals.  They didn't garble their intent when adding the 2nd Amendment.   Their intent reached back to English law, and to the greens of Lexington and Concord, where colonists bled for their right to bear arms, as the King's soldiers fired on them on their appointed mission to seize the colonists ammunition and weapons.  Some Americans throughout history have also owned cannon.  In fact, private corporations today own the equivalent of a ballistic missile.

The canard about "hunting and self-defense" is the progressives effort to revise and revoke the Second Amendment, without having to go to the trouble of doing so Constitutionally, via a constitutional convention.  They know that they could not possibly succeed via that legal route, so they redefine words, issue executive proclamations, pass local laws, and make  policy to violate the will of the people.

"If someone breaks into my house at night...", I want an unfair fight.   I prefer a fully automatic SIG MPX, but will take an M4 or semi-auto Shotgun as an alternative.  I can fight well with a handgun, but better with an MPX.

The thing about a "God given, inalienable right" is that it doesn't matter whether you have "mixed emotions" about it, or whether Clinton or Trump or other tyrants are genuinely scared or pissed off about it.  It's yours and mine, period.

I've already made my decision.  As a former California resident and current American citizen, I have had to hide my handgun.  I have risked a felony conviction by carrying it concealed and loaded in my vehicle.   I have acted as a criminal, when I was only acting in concert with the Constitution and God's law.  I have used my handgun successfully in a gun controlled state to defend my family.  My best friend, another Navy Officer, refused my offer of a handgun loan, as he traveled on PCS orders across country, and they found him in a dumpster 10 days after he was supposed to arrive at his mother's house for Christmas.  This isn't a theoretical argument.

I legally purchased an AR-15 in California, only to have it later declared "unregistered and illegal" after the fact.   When weapons are outlawed, I'll be an outlaw.  I hope to God that the officer(s) who stops me, and tries to arrest me for carrying concealed, or some other weapons related felony infraction is an evil man, because I am NOT LaVoy Finicum.  I will not die in the snow "reaching for a weapon" I never owned, while my badged murderers go home to girlfriends, wives, and kids.  Neither will I allow myself to be "peacefully" arrested to spend years incarcerated, and lose every nickel I ever saved, to satisfy the progressives desire for a pound of flesh, simply because I am armed.  Meanwhile, I've got the back of any Constitutionally lawful, and armed officer, in particularly, the local Sheriff and his deputies.

UNLESS the Constitution is legally amended, I will abide by it as is, and own and carry firearms, regardless of what politicians legislate, or of which order a President signs.  If the 2nd Amendment is revoked by the people in a Constitutional Convention, then it's time to leave this godless country, and renounce my US citizenship.

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« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 12:39:16 am by OldSaltUSN »

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump just caved on gun control
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2016, 12:58:48 am »
I
I would think a shotgun.

Short-range and wide-angle.  That way the projectiles don't exit the home and potentially end up in a bystander... and there is no real need to aim if something happens at night, with the lights off.  Point vaguely in the right direction and boom, problem solved.

It's why the Navy uses them if hostile intruders come aboard a ship.

The average shotgun doesn't have much spread at 10ft.  You still have to aim pretty close. 

 If you use 00 the shot will go thru multiple layers of sheet rock.    Won't go thru much metal bulkheads tho.   Houses and ships are built differently.

Each to their own but according to tests I've seen the ar15 is actually a pretty good home defense choice.
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