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Offline sinkspur

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UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« on: June 10, 2016, 02:15:28 pm »
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/282958-ryan-under-gop-fire-for-trump-remarks

Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks


By Alexander Bolton and Scott Wong - 06/10/16 06:00 AM EDT

Speaker Paul Ryan’s handling of Donald Trump is coming under criticism from Senate Republicans, many of whom prefer the way their leader, Mitch McConnell, deals with the unconventional candidate.

McConnell, the Senate majority leader from Kentucky, has steadfastly declined to call Trump's criticism of a federal judge “racist,” a term that Ryan pointedly deployed.

“It sets up journalists to ask, ‘Do you agree with Paul Ryan that it was racist?” said an aide to a vulnerable GOP senator
Trump set off a firestorm last week by claiming that a Mexican-American federal judge handling a lawsuit against Trump University was biased because of his heritage.

Republican lawmakers on both sides of the Capitol swiftly expressed strong disapproval but Ryan ratcheted up the criticism significantly by calling it “the textbook definition of a racist comment.”

Ryan’s remarks quickly became a Democratic talking point used to batter vulnerable Senate Republican incumbents.

“This morning, Ryan called Donald Trump’s attacks on Judge Gonzalo Curiel the ‘textbook definition of racism.’ Will Johnson join Ryan in calling out Trump’s racism?” American Bridge, a Democratic-allied communications group, asked in a press release targeting Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), one of the chamber’s most endangered incumbents.

The group sent out similar releases pressing Republican Sens. Kelly Ayotte (N.H.), Roy Blunt (Mo.), Mark Kirk (Ill.), John McCain (Ariz.), Rob Portman (Ohio) and Pat Toomey (Pa.) to condemn Trump’s action as “racist.”

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee on Wednesday sent an email to reporters highlighting a Tampa Bay Times article in which three Republican Senate candidates declined to go as far as Ryan.

“Even though high-ranking Republicans like House Speaker Paul Ryan have condemned Donald Trump’s comments on the Trump University Judge as racist, Florida Senate candidates Carlos Beruff, Ron DeSantis and Carlos Lopez-Cantera avoided going that far,” the Senate Democrats’ political arm wrote.

One GOP senator said he and his colleagues are more upset with Trump’s lack of discipline, which has forced them to play defense instead of talking about the weak economy.

At the same time, the senator added, “nobody was happy with Paul.”

Another Republican senator was more diplomatic: “If he could have gotten his point across without being so definitive and giving Democrats fodder for people lower on the ticket, that would have been good.”

Senate Republicans won’t criticize Ryan publically because they don’t want to pick a fight with the top-ranking House Republican and or be seen as defending Trump’s comment, which many thought was dumb.

But they have concerns about whether Ryan is thinking enough about how his actions affect the party’s chances of keeping control of the Senate.

AshLee Strong, a spokeswoman for Ryan, said her boss did what he thought was right.

“He was asked a question and answered honestly. He’s always said he’ll speak out when warranted,” she said.

Some Senate Republicans acknowledge that Ryan’s direct condemnation of Trump may prove helpful down the road if they get the unpredictable candidate to think twice before spouting a race-based critique.

“Maybe he was trying to get his attention. Maybe he was trying to get through his thick skull,” said a Senate Republican.

Still, a third Senate Republican critical of Ryan’s remarks said the use of a “charged” and “emotional” term wasn’t the best move.

“His comments poured gasoline on the fire and put every Republican in an incredibly uncomfortable position. It was entirely avoidable,” another Senate GOP aide told The Hill on Tuesday.

McConnell has bent over backwards to avoid giving Democrats any ammo to use against vulnerable colleagues — even if it sometimes makes for awkward media appearances.

During a Sunday interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” McConnell was asked three times if Trump’s comments were racist and each time refused to use that term.

“I couldn’t disagree more with a statement like that,” he said instead.

The Senate GOP leader dodged again when reporters in the Capitol pressed him Tuesday on Ryan’s use of the word “racist.”

“I was asked over the course of the last week on numerous occasions to express myself on various utterances of our nominee. And I have done that. And unless there was some new comment today, I don't have anything to add,” McConnell said stoically.

His answer left reporters frustrated but won kudos from his colleagues.

“Mitch’s answer was textbook,” beamed on Republican senator, discussing his appearance on “Meet the Press.”

CNN’s Erin Burnett asked McConnell in an interview if Ryan went too far in calling Trump’s comments racists.

But McConnell declined to criticize, reflecting the broader feeling in his caucus that the GOP has been too consumed by infighting this year.

“I’m not going to critique the Speaker. I can speak for myself and I have spoken for myself,” he said. “I have listed all of last week every occasion upon which I differed with Donald Trump, particularly attacking people on the basis of their ethnicity — totally inappropriate.”

Ryan made his comments Tuesday at an event devoted to highlighting Republican proposals to combat poverty. He emphasized his shared ground with Trump on various issues and argued “we have more likelihood in getting our policies enacted with him that we do with” Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee.

Rep. Tom Reed (R-N.Y.), a Trump surrogate, did not fault Ryan for his sharp criticism of the candidate but urged the national media to move on to other issues, such as the need to reform Washington.

“As the Speaker has indicated, the concerns raised by those comments are legitimate and we share those concerns,” he said.

“I respect everyone’s opinion, how they deal with Donald Trump, how they respond to Donald Trump and what they have to offer from that perspective,” he added. “I let them speak for themselves.”

 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 02:16:46 pm »
These GOP mooks are pathetic!! 

Ryan recognizes the monkey in the room, and they get pissed at HIM for doing so, instead of kicking the monkey's ass.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline r9etb

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 02:19:01 pm »
These GOP mooks are pathetic!! 

The Whig Party ended in much the same way.

Oceander

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 02:22:04 pm »
I'm not sure why it's so difficult to call a pig a pig.  What Trump said was racist, period. 

Wingnut

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 02:28:55 pm »
It's very much like watching a run-a-way train.  You just know at some point down the line, there is going to be one hell of a wreck.


Offline r9etb

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 02:30:24 pm »
I'm not sure why it's so difficult to call a pig a pig.  What Trump said was racist, period.

Because politics > honesty.

The Democrats have behaved like this for decades; the Republicans are just catching up (but still terrible at playing the game).

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 02:32:48 pm »
These GOP mooks are pathetic!! 

Ryan recognizes the monkey in the room, and they get pissed at HIM for doing so, instead of kicking the monkey's ass.

I applaud Ryan's honesty, and I agree that what Trump said is text book racist.

Speakers are not supposed to be honest.  They are supposed to spin for the party.  Maybe Ryan is not cut out for Speaker.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 02:34:46 pm »
I'm not sure why it's so difficult to call a pig a pig.  What Trump said was racist, period.
The only racist in the matter was the Judge. And this is going to bite the globalist quislings in the ass as the Drip Drip Drip continues.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,211153.0.html
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 02:39:14 pm »
These GOP mooks are pathetic!! 

Ryan recognizes the monkey in the room, and they get pissed at HIM for doing so, instead of kicking the monkey's ass.

It's now or never for recognizing and forcefully condemning the monkey.   Half-assed criticisms will accomplish less than nothing, since the Dems will jump all over such half-assedness.   Ryan led the way - Trump's remark was, no bones about it, TEXTBOOK RACIST - and if no one wants to follow his charge,  then the GOP will deserve the whipping it will receive this fall.

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 03:05:13 pm »
The only racist in the matter was the Judge.

Okay, there is an argument that Trump's comment wasn't racist.  Essentially, he was proceeding from the (mostly unstated) assumption that the excessive ethnic solidarity of many Hispanics leads to a reasonable inference that a Hispanic judge may be biased against a politician who has railed against illegal immigration from south of the border.  And I would agree that pointing out that another group is too race-conscious is not itself being racist.

For example, I've been around long enough to know that there is a general sense of solidarity among many ethnic groups, particularly among members of those groups who lean left.  Classic leftist identity politics.  In that regard, I note that there have been several powerful black women who have (very likely) engaged in actions for which they should be heavily criticized.  In particular, I'm thinking of Susan Rice, and Cheryl Mills, who I think was intimately involved with the Hillary email project. 

But here's the rub.  You've got the First Lady and Valerie Jarrett at the top, and there was no way they were going to throw a fellow leftist black female under the bus.  And now you've got Cheryl Mills.  So do we really think that Michelle Obama, Valerie Jarrett, and Janet Lynch are going to support an indictment of Cheryl Mills?  No way in hell, and I truly believe that if Cheryl Mills was Seamus O'Brien, he's be the fall guy for all of this.

Now, that is all assumption on my part, and I cannot prove that their gender and race will affect their thinking.  But do I actually believe it will?  Sure, and I don't think it is "racist" to believe that.  And I think that's largely where Trump was coming from on this with that Judge.

But here's the problem -- as much as I think race and gender will play a role in how that email situation is handled by the Justice Department, I would never say that publicly if I was a politician because I don't have any hard evidence of it.  It's just based on what I've observed of identity politics on the left, and it's not an accusation I'd make publicly without actual evidence.  Trump doesn't seem to understand that as a public figure, he has to be more careful about converting private suspicions into public accusations.  They are two very different things.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:07:38 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 06:17:22 pm »
Quote
Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks


As well he should be.   Shutting your mouth is a superior choice to helping Democrat Stephanopoulos damage your party's candidate.   


Shut up Ryan!  You did something very stupid. 
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 06:25:26 pm »
I applaud Ryan's honesty, and I agree that what Trump said is text book racist.


I do not applaud Ryan's effort to "virtue signal"  at the expense of the party's candidate,   and I do not believe that pointing out you think someone is racist constitutes racism.   




Speakers are not supposed to be honest.  They are supposed to spin for the party.  Maybe Ryan is not cut out for Speaker.



On this part you are exactly right.   Too many times has our side done the "right thing"  and attacked our people all the while the left applauds them for their "courage"  or for being a "Maverick."   Sometimes they say they "grow."   


Meanwhile the left wins.   
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Offline r9etb

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 06:48:37 pm »

As well he should be.   Shutting your mouth is a superior choice to helping Democrat Stephanopoulos damage your party's candidate.   


Shut up Ryan!  You did something very stupid.

In other words, we should never state the truth when politics are involved.

Nice. 

geronl

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 06:50:32 pm »
remember how the Trumpturds say that we can hold Trumps feet to the fire and make him do conservative things...


the same people who say that will never never ever allow his feet to be held to the fire.

Wingnut

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 06:53:24 pm »

As well he should be.   Shutting your mouth is a superior choice to helping Democrat Stephanopoulos damage your party's candidate.   


Shut up Ryan!  You did something very stupid.

Damn.  Even his minions are speaking Like trump.... Oh wait. No...this poster is Donald Baron isn't it! 

Hi Donald.  Wasup...

Offline INVAR

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 06:59:11 pm »
Ah yes, "their leader Mitch McConnell" is such a wonderful example (of arrogance, surrender, and eating his own).

McConnell has no problem bashing Conservatives and threatening to "punch" us "In the nose" for daring to belong to "outsider groups" that threaten to "Tear up the country" because they dare support actual Conservatives McConnell thinks are a "blight on the party".
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline WAC

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 07:06:35 pm »
This isn't about a race issue at all....it's about Trump making this suite public with a three prong agenda....

One... to influence the suite itself by making it public and garner people to his defense. (leverage) , He likely isn't 'fairing' well in court.

Two... to obtain the continual interest of the media for TV and  interviews flowing in keeping his face public  (also leverage against Hillary taking the media to her front and center)

Three....thereby keeping his supporters engaged with him and preventing any leakage to another side.

The media runs with the race issue because it brings further ratings. $$$$$.which is their end game.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 07:27:45 pm »

I do not applaud Ryan's effort to "virtue signal"  at the expense of the party's candidate,   and I do not believe that pointing out you think someone is racist constitutes racism.   

On this part you are exactly right.   Too many times has our side done the "right thing"  and attacked our people all the while the left applauds them for their "courage"  or for being a "Maverick."   Sometimes they say they "grow."   Meanwhile the left wins.

I understand your point, but there is not just one candidate.  This is a two-way street, and Trump must do a better job of not putting other Republican candidates in untenable political positions.  Ryan is worried not just about the Presidency, but about his fellow House members running for re-election.  McConnell is worried the same about the Senate.  And when Trump says something so...inartfully, it hurts Republicans who are facing close elections.

I could see the distancing from Trump turn into an avalanche closer to the election if Trump keeps screwing up.  Elected Republicans will conclude that the Presidency is a lost cause, and so will cut their losses by abandoning Trump and running on "you need us to balance Hillary".  It will get ugly as hell if it gets to that point, so I hope Trump cuts down on these unforced errors moving forward.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 08:00:23 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline catfish1957

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 08:15:27 pm »



I'll simply say the Mr. Ryan has painted himself into a corner.  He has no viable options without taking a political hit.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 10:49:35 pm »
In other words, we should never state the truth when politics are involved.

Nice.


There is a fallacious debating tactic in which some one will take a disagreement on a point to the opposite extreme,  and then assert that it is the position being articulated.   

The most common name for this is called "The Straw Man"  tactic. 




I didn't say that we should never tell the truth when politics are involved.    I said we can shut our mouths instead of helping our enemies.   


I think we need to weigh consequences.   Minor wins on virtue signaling points do not justify major losses for more significant principles.


  The other side plays for keeps.   


Feeling smug about your moral superiority when the Gestapo is breaking down your door at 3:00 in the morning is not a win.   

 
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Offline r9etb

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 10:54:39 pm »
I didn't say that we should never tell the truth when politics are involved.    I said we can shut our mouths instead of helping our enemies.   

Ah, I see the distinction.  We should pantomime the truth instead of speaking it.

Quote
Feeling smug about your moral superiority when the Gestapo is breaking down your door at 3:00 in the morning is not a win.

So.... are you suggesting that Donald Trump is the only thing standing between righteousness and the Gestapo?

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 10:57:29 pm »
Damn.  Even his minions are speaking Like trump.... Oh wait. No...this poster is Donald Baron isn't it! 

Hi Donald.  Wasup...


Do you think you persuade anyone by calling me a "minion"?    I don't like Trump,   but unlike being a whinny baby who can't get over the fact that my man lost,    I deal with the ugly reality which I have been dealt.   

I am a Cruz supporter.   I got suspended at Free Republic because I kept criticizing the unethical things Donald Trump did to win the nomination. 


Now, like it or not,  I have to deal with the ugly choice between a boorish and narcissistic businessman,  or a psychopathic communist hate-witch.   



Not being a whinny baby about it does not make one a "minion."   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 11:15:10 pm »
I understand your point, but there is not just one candidate.  This is a two-way street, and Trump must do a better job of not putting other Republican candidates in untenable political positions.  Ryan is worried not just about the Presidency, but about his fellow House members running for re-election.  McConnell is worried the same about the Senate.  And when Trump says something so...inartfully, it hurts Republicans who are facing close elections.


Why absolutely!  God forbid that we should lose our conservative House and Senate who have done such great work in opposing Obama's agenda and his illegal power grabs.   We certainly wouldn't want to lose any of those valuable members.   


I get your point,   I just don't think it has the significance that it once did.   Our side has done nothing but roll over and beg.   At this point it is more important to keep the psychopath away from creating a national secret police force (among other horrors) than it is to worry about getting legislation passed.   

Had you said this in 1990,  or the oughts,   I could see it.   Now I don't think it's the most important jewel on the table.   



I could see the distancing from Trump turn into an avalanche closer to the election if Trump keeps screwing up.  Elected Republicans will conclude that the Presidency is a lost cause, and so will cut their losses by abandoning Trump and running on "you need us to balance Hillary".  It will get ugly as hell if it gets to that point, so I hope Trump cuts down on these unforced errors moving forward.

I agree it is an unforced error,   but so was what Paul Ryan did.   There are any number of ways he could have parleyed it off rather than running to Bill Clinton's press secretary to tell the world how racist Donald Trump is.   

Memes grow and memes wither.   If you feed them they grow.   If you starve them they wither.   Ryan fertilized this one and his words aid the enemy. 


This meme I now perceive is the Liberals dominant attack strategy.   I was wondering what they were going to do to attack Trump,  and it would appear that this is going to be their dominant weapon in this battle.    It was a variation of this which brought down George Allen.   


The correct way to respond to these faux pas is to ignore them,  not highlight them,  especially for our side. 





 
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 11:28:37 pm »
Ah, I see the distinction.  We should pantomime the truth instead of speaking it.


Better to remain quiet and let people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. 



So.... are you suggesting that Donald Trump is the only thing standing between righteousness and the Gestapo?

I am flatly stating that it is my opinion that Hillary is an evil psychopath who will bring down the boots of governments on the necks of people like me,  and I presume you as well. 

It is not even a questionable proposition  from the perspective of my knowledge of Hillary's past.   She is utterly contemptuous of the law,  utterly contemptuous of right and wrong.  She has proven it over and over again,   and I find it incredible that people who ought to know her history, behave as if she's some annoying bimbo actress or something.   


She has a past,  and it's evil,  from the 1970s until the present.   She too is from Chicago,   and she has just as much of a grasp of "The Chicago Way"  as does Obama.   If you think you are playing with a dtizy but harmless crone,  you just do not grasp the nature of Hillary Rodham. 


She is an evil and power seeking wannabe tyrant.   She's Obama II,  but with more connections, more viciousness,  and more insanity. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline r9etb

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Re: UNBELIEVABLE!! Ryan under GOP fire for Trump remarks
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 11:31:11 pm »
Better to remain quiet and let people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. 

Hm.