Monckton: It’s Time For ‘Texit’ — Texas Should Secede, Thatcher Advisor Says

[Oceander]

The topic irritates me:

1) Talk of secession makes the GOP, conservatives seem kooky to "regular joes".
2) We will lose Texas' electoral college votes, senators, and representatives. The rest of the US will lurch to the left.
3) The US will be weakened.
4) When the right splinters, it makes it easier to pick off one by one. United we stand, divided we fall. Like how trump won the primaries, because the opposition was split between Cruz and Kashich, he was able to win.

Lest anyone believe the disgusting slander that I hate texans, consider that I supported Cruz during the latter stages of the primary.

Then why not leave it alone and stop irritating yourself?

[Liberty Tree Dr]

Texas wants to secede we should have these terms: No money, no SS, no medicare, no army, no nukes, etc. All SS paid in is forfeited by Texans. You're on your own.

All federal lands remain owned by the US government (from a map it doesn't look like much).

No, we'll keep a pro-rata share of the nukes, thanks.  Ukraine didn't, and look what happened. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Then why not leave it alone and stop irritating yourself?

Isn't this a discussion site?

[RedHead]

Texas wants to secede we should have these terms: No money, no SS, no medicare, no army, no nukes, etc. All SS paid in is forfeited by Texans. You're on your own.

All federal lands remain owned by the US government (from a map it doesn't look like much).

If a person gives up U.S. citizenship then they forfeit Social Security and Medicare.

[RedHead]

No, there sure as heck isn't much federal land in Texas.  And Texas already has the Texas Military Forces, a three-branch military of which the Governor is the Commander-In-Chief. All of those other points would be negotiated between the Texas Republic and the extra-Constitutional national government (which has replaced our Sovereign States and a weak federal government model.) You won't be setting the terms.

You said the magic word - negotiated.  So long as Texas' leaving is done through negotiation and not unilaterally then I don't care if the go or stay.  But you and others are talking about them walking out.  Repudiating responsibility for debt.  Taking every bit of federal property they can get their hands on.  You did that once before and it led to war.  Which is what the South wanted.  Trying the same thing today would lead to the same results.

[RedHead]

You've got a deal on everything but the SS.  People paid for it and should receive it regardless of where they live.

Which is true of U.S. citizens.  But if people give up their citizenship, like when they become citizens of an independent Texas, then they forfeit their Social Security and Medicare. 

[RedHead]

That is your opinion. They have a great command of the process and are gaining support with each new unconstitutional act of the national government. Texas has one of the largest economies in the world and plenty of natural resources, ports, and our own military.

They say nothing about debt.  They lie to people by saying they can keep their Social Security and Medicare.  They present opinion as fact.  There are a lot of misconceptions there.

[Sanguine]

Nope you leave, you lose it. Period.

Luckily it won't be you making the rules.

[Sanguine]

Isn't this a discussion site?

Yes, but you're not discussing; you're agitating.

[Sanguine]

Which is true of U.S. citizens.  But if people give up their citizenship, like when they become citizens of an independent Texas, then they forfeit their Social Security and Medicare.

I could live with that - forfeit SS and the national debt in exchange for letting us go.

[RedHead]

I could live with that - forfeit SS and the national debt in exchange for letting us go.

So in other words walk away from your share of the national debt, a large part of which was run up under three Texas presidents?  No thank you. 

Debt is an obligation the country entered into while Texas was part of it.  Texas cannot just walk away from it like the South tried to in 1861.  A negotiated separation would require that Texas accept their fair share of it.  Based on population that would be about 9% of the total, or about $1.7 trillion.

As for Social Security and Medicare, those are programs for U.S. citizens.  Accepting citizenship in a foreign country, like Texas, is considered an expatriating act and you relinquish your U.S. citizenship.  as part of that you give up all rights and privileges that go along with it.  So Medicare is gone, since you will not be getting medical treatment in the U.S.  Social Security is a little more complex, and the U.S. could refuse to send payments to people living in Texas.  They do it for other countries.

[DiogenesLamp]

Then I take you believe every state has the right to leave the union if it feels like it?

Just as much as the original colonists had a right to leave the English Union.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Why do I picture guys on the 'net talking about Texas secession like this?



 

Because you have been subjected to 150 years of propaganda regarding the concept of secession.   

[RedHead]

Because you have been subjected to 150 years of propaganda regarding the concept of secession.   

Or 170 years of Texas stereotypes.  But so often stereotypes are grounded in fact.

[DiogenesLamp]

I would be for accepting war when war is forced on us.

Other people trying to get out of the Washington D.C. based cesspool of a government somehow forces war on you?   


Do you also hold your friends hostage at gunpoint?   

[DiogenesLamp]

So there are about 27.5 million people living in Texas.  What percentage do you figure will live in Texas while remaining U.S. citizens?

Well given that it would take a majority of them to attempt independence,   I would say the upper limit could only be around 45%.   


But more probably it will be around 20% or so.    Texans tend to have a lot of pride in their state,   and I bet most of them would choose Texan citizenship.   Still,   I expect quite a lot would not. 

[RedHead]

Other people trying to get out of the Washington D.C. based cesspool of a government somehow forces war on you?   

Kind of dumb, huh?  But that seems to be the way the secession proponents want it.

[RedHead]

Well given that it would take a majority of them to attempt independence,   I would say the upper limit could only be around 45%.   


But more probably it will be around 20% or so.    Texans tend to have a lot of pride in their state,   and I bet most of them would choose Texan citizenship.   Still,   I expect quite a lot would not.

So what would you do to that 20%?  Declare them illegal aliens and deport them?  Build a wall all the way around the state to keep them out?

[DiogenesLamp]

Texas wants to secede we should have these terms: No money, no SS, no medicare, no army, no nukes, etc. All SS paid in is forfeited by Texans. You're on your own.

So you would steal from people?   

All federal lands remain owned by the US government (from a map it doesn't look like much).

A smart move would be for them to accept that term,   and then embark on an endless series of negotiations to overturn it,   but only after having established independence for a long enough period of time that people cannot  claim they don't have it. 

Besides,   I think if Texas chose to seek independence,   probably Oklahoma,  Arkansas and Louisiana would join them.    Possibly the whole thing could spread to much of the original confederacy,   except for Virginia of course,   because nowadays Virginia pretty much has it's tongue so deeply down the Federal throat.   


I would expect that some of the western states might go too.   Hard to say what would happen before. 



Years ago I read a prediction by a Russian social scientist who claims the US would eventually divide up into five naturally occurring districts.    He seemingly put a lot of work into his theory.   

[DiogenesLamp]

This is why you don't argue with kooks on the internet. We're arguing about crap that isn't even happening yet.

But we will be setting the terms. It's our choice to pay out SS benefits to a bunch of secessionist fools. And with SS being in the dire straights it is, cutting off a huge state like Texas might not be such a bad deal.

I think with a sound specie based currency,   the fools will end up being the ones who think that the fiat money Ponzi scheme is going to stay ahead of the artificially induced inflation we have all been living with.   


Washington D.C. is financially killing us,   but a lot of people haven't grasped that yet. 

[DiogenesLamp]

Nope you leave, you lose it. Period.

To get away from the vile degenerates of Washington D.C.,   it would probably be worth it.   


It is fitting that their last act of control would be one more theft of other people's money.   

[DiogenesLamp]

I don't like kookery. Never have. This isn't Alex Jones level kookery but it's out there.

Yes,   what is sane is remaining in a country with courts that declares homosexual "marriage"  normal,   and owes an admitted 20 trillion in debt,  with unfunded liabilities in the neighborhood of 100 trillion,   all ran from the New York/Washington D.C. power structure.   


Yeah,   that's not crazy at all. 

[austingirl]

You said the magic word - negotiated.  So long as Texas' leaving is done through negotiation and not unilaterally then I don't care if the go or stay.  But you and others are talking about them walking out.  Repudiating responsibility for debt.  Taking every bit of federal property they can get their hands on.  You did that once before and it led to war.  Which is what the South wanted.  Trying the same thing today would lead to the same results.

I have never talked about "walking out," but rather the secession process that has always been to have a vote by the people of Texas and, if it passed, to negotiate our freedom from the national government. None of what you state is true, most especially that the South wanted war when they seceded.

[DiogenesLamp]

But you see, I don't live under tyranny. I don't agree with a lot of the policies of my government, especially living in MA, but to call it tyranny is kooky. The word tyranny should be reserved for actual tyrants. To call anything you don't like tyranny cheapens the word.

Let us see if Hitlery gets elected and then we can revisit your opinion on this particular point.   


Anyone who remembers the abuses of power she has committed in the past will not be at all surprised at what the nation turns into with that Nazi controlling the Justice Department.   

[DiogenesLamp]

You said the magic word - negotiated.  So long as Texas' leaving is done through negotiation and not unilaterally then I don't care if the go or stay.  But you and others are talking about them walking out.  Repudiating responsibility for debt.  Taking every bit of federal property they can get their hands on.  You did that once before and it led to war. 

This last year  I've been studying the civil war more so than I have for most of my life,   and it now appears to me that the primary reason for the war is not at all what most people think.   


In fact it appears that the vast majority of people are completely unaware of what were the real reasons for the commencement of the civil war.    To sum it up in one word,   it was "money."