Author Topic: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls  (Read 2526 times)

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Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« on: June 02, 2016, 03:43:23 pm »
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/281910-doubts-creep-into-trump-clinton-polls

By Niall Stanage - 06/02/16 06:00 AM EDT

Doubts are creeping in among opinion pollsters over how accurately they will be able to predict the outcome of a presidential election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

The two prospective nominees' high unfavorable ratings, and their fame, mean pollsters are facing one of their most difficult tasks in conducting polls that correctly model who will vote in November’s election.

As many people are likely to come to the polls this fall to vote against the candidate they dislike as to vote for a candidate they support — something that makes polling difficult.

“We are looking at ... the most disliked candidates in a single election,” said Jennifer Dineen, a University of Connecticut polling expert and director of the school's joint poll with the Hartford Courant newspaper.

As a pollster, “you’re not determining who’s supporting a candidate; you are trying to determine how strongly someone opposes a candidate,” she added.

“People’s feelings on [Trump] are pretty clear, but we are not just trying to estimate support for Secretary Clinton, we are estimating opposition to him.”

People on the political left raised questions about polling accuracy after recent surveys showed Trump doing better against Clinton than Beltway pundits expected.

A Fox News poll conducted in mid-May indicated that Trump led Clinton by 3 percentage points.

It faced immediate pushback on social media from liberals who noted that the poll implied a turnout where self-declared Republicans outnumbered Democrats by a single percentage point, but Democrats held a 6-point advantage by that measure among actual voters in 2012.

Still, other polls that followed soon after have undercut the notion that the Fox survey was an outlier.

An ABC News/Washington Post poll put Trump up by two points. Other recent surveys have been more optimistic for Clinton — she was up by three points in an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, and by four in a Quinnipiac University survey released Wednesday — but the overall impression is of a race that is, as of now, a jump-ball.

The party identification of respondents in the ABC, NBC and Quinnipiac polls more closely tracked the actual 2012 turnout than did the Fox poll. Democrats had an edge of eight points in the ABC survey and six points in the other two polls.

Experts note several caveats to all the current polls, however.

The fact that Trump has wrapped up the Republican nomination while Clinton is still trying to end the intraparty challenge from Sanders could have provided the Manhattan mogul with a bump, several experts said.

They also noted that polls this far out from Election Day have little predictive value, even if they are interesting as snapshots. This is partly because any number of future events could shape the race, but it’s also because huge swathes of the electorate are not yet focused on the contest.

“I would counsel that the American public comes in in tiers,” said Cliff Zukin, a polling expert at Rutgers University and a member of the executive council of the American Association for Public Opinion Research. Zukin compared the process to how sports leagues such as the NBA draw truly committed fans during the regular season, more people in the playoffs and the largest numbers of all to the championship series.

“It makes little sense to regard the public as a single whole. There is a certain audience for primaries, then historically the conventions have produced another tier of the electorate coming in…And then the last tier comes in, which traditionally is not until just before the election.”

Even the experts disagree over how antipathy toward both Trump and Clinton will affect who shows up at the polls in November.

Republican pollster David Winston leans toward low turnout, suggesting that the feelings of political partisans shouldn’t be confused with the view of the general public.

“Among the party folks, you have the dynamic where Trump’s best asset is Hillary Clinton and Clinton’s best asset is Donald Trump. If you are a Republican, Hillary Clinton is a motivator. If you are a Democrat, Donald Trump is a motivator,” Winston said. “But to those people who aren’t affiliated with a political party, that becomes a very different dynamic.”

Dineen, however, noted that Clinton and Trump are almost universally-known and added, “People are most likely to turn out to prevent a candidate they are strongly opposed to from getting into office…They may engage more.”

There are other complications too.

Karlyn Bowman, a polling expert with the conservative American Enterprise Institute, suggested that Trump’s divisiveness — and his apparent unpopularity with the chattering classes — could lead to respondents being reticent about telling pollsters they actually support him.

“It’s really hard to gauge a closet vote,” Bowman said, referring to famous past contests such as Doug Wilder’s much narrower-than-expected win in a 1989 Virginia gubernatorial election. On that occasion, polls appeared to underestimate the opposition to Wilder, a Democrat who became the nation’s first elected African-American governor.

There is also the most basic problem of all. Trying to predict who will cast ballots in a future election inherently involves some element of guesswork.

“The problem of turnout is, how do you weigh something that does not yet exist?” said Zukin.

For all the uncertainty, pollsters can take heart from at least one development: They performed well, by and large, during the primary season, which is historically more challenging for pollsters because allegiances within a party can flip much easier than in a general election.

There were some upsets that left pollsters red-faced, such as Sanders’s defeat of Clinton in Michigan — she had led by 21 points in the final RealClearPolitics polling average — but they were relatively few in number.

But the general election, typically decided by only a few points one way or another, could be a different matter.

A Trump-Clinton match-up, Bowman said, “could just be throwing out some of the old rules.”

 
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Offline austingirl

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 03:48:51 pm »
Having two of the worst candidates ever to run for POTUS lies squarely at the feet of the current pResident.
Just saw Col Mansoor, a longtime Republican on CNN stating that he will vote for the Democrat whether it is Hitlery or the other socialist. He believes Trump in unfit and unprepared for the Oval Office. 

What an election cycle.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 03:58:44 pm »
Having two of the worst candidates ever to run for POTUS lies squarely at the feet of the current pResident.

Nah.  The current pResident is just an earlier symptom of a pre-existing and worsening cultural and political sickness.  I suppose this is what a decadent society looks like from the inside.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 04:11:09 pm »

Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2016, 04:13:37 pm »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...


I utterly disagree.  Trump is and always has been a big government NYC liberal; just like all his ilk in NYC, as I have observed living in NYC for 13 years. 

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2016, 04:35:13 pm »

I utterly disagree.  Trump is and always has been a big government NYC liberal; just like all his ilk in NYC, as I have observed living in NYC for 13 years.

Trump has walked back all of his policy/suggestions. He is on tape stating Japan should have nukes and then denying he said it. All of his inconsistencies will be shown wall to wall on the news networks. He is self-destructing- but there is still time to nominate someone else at the convention.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2016, 04:35:55 pm »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps.

I feel fortunate we didn't get stuck with one of the sixteen actual Republicans who ran for the nomination.  It was nice that the Trump family sacrificed their coveted privacy under the spotlight of publicity for the first time.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 04:54:12 pm »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

Trump is a pathological narcissist, which is a mental defect.  God has nothing to do with a man of boundless ambition and desire for personal aggrandizement now stepping forth who wants his name plastered all over the history books.

It will be, but he will also be designated by what he truly is:  a loser.
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Offline r9etb

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 05:17:06 pm »
It was nice that the Trump family sacrificed their coveted privacy under the spotlight of publicity for the first time.

lol... well done.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 02:29:31 am »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :pigs fly: :laughingdog:
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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2016, 06:01:18 am »
I feel fortunate we didn't get stuck with one of the sixteen actual Republicans who ran for the nomination.  It was nice that the Trump family sacrificed their coveted privacy under the spotlight of publicity for the first time.

That is a statement worthy of Free Republic.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2016, 11:13:05 am »
Having two of the worst candidates ever to run for POTUS lies squarely at the feet of the current pResident.
Just saw Col Mansoor, a longtime Republican on CNN stating that he will vote for the Democrat whether it is Hitlery or the other socialist. He believes Trump in unfit and unprepared for the Oval Office. 

What an election cycle.

The sad part of all this is this was a winnable election.  The GOP had a plethora of talent as candidates in the primary, but too many voters glommed onto the idea that louder and brasher somehow are better, understanding of issues be damned.  So, here we are, facing a choice between two horrendously bad options.  As for the current polls, they're illusory.  The reflect whatever passes for unity in the GOP behind the presumptive nominee, while Hillary had yet to similarly benefit from the end of Sanders' campaign.  Once Bernie calls it a day and throws in with Hillary, her numbers will jump.  The ONLY possibility of her not winning in November rests with her being indicted.  And we know that's not going to happen.

Hillary will win 30+ states and 350+ EVs on Election Day.  By the time the east coast and Midwest states are called, it'll be over.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 11:29:38 am »
I feel fortunate we didn't get stuck with one of the sixteen actual Republicans who ran for the nomination.  It was nice that the Trump family sacrificed their coveted privacy under the spotlight of publicity for the first time.

Ha!  VERY good!

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2016, 11:32:34 am »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

 :silly: 88finger point :nothappen:

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2016, 12:36:49 pm »

I utterly disagree.  Trump is and always has been a big government NYC liberal; just like all his ilk in NYC, as I have observed living in NYC for 13 years.
He lives in NYC too. That's part of the reason he doesn't see the problem.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2016, 01:11:24 pm »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

Nah, Trump crapped all over the last best hope we had to begin restoring the system made this nation great in the first place.

Anyway, the die is cast - the choices before us are nationalist populism vs. maoist socialism.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2016, 01:18:21 pm »
:silly: 88finger point :nothappen:

I see you're chewing bubblegum again. I hope you brought enough for the rest of the class...

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2016, 01:21:16 pm »
I see you're chewing bubblegum again. I hope you brought enough for the rest of the class...

Such a comeback.  Did you think it up all on your lonesome?

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2016, 01:25:29 pm »
Americans are fortunate to have Donald Trump step up and voluntarily put himself and his family through the presidential politics meat grinder. We are all very fortunate indeed--even the neverTrumps. Providence has giving us Donald Trump; the right man for the difficult job at hand.

History will no doubt prove Mr. Trump to be an epically huge president for our time...

Well, it's not like he's not making a tidy profit from it.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2016, 01:28:15 pm »
Well, it's not like he's not making a tidy profit from it.

Do you have any facts or just more spew?

Offline aligncare

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2016, 01:30:14 pm »
facts:

Trump lost $100 million after he announced his run for president. Macy's, NBC, Univision, PGA, others, all got skittish and abandoned their business relationship with Mr. Trump. (Shows just how much political correctness has infested the business world.)

Trump is a man who loves his country so much that he risked it all.

I’m behind him all the way to the White House.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2016, 01:31:20 pm »
I think we're going to end up with a small electoral turnout.    People don't generally flock to the polls to vote against someone.   I'm going to stay home and I think a lot of others will too.....
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 01:34:27 pm »

Ocean, I don't have you on ignore. I ignore you the old-fashioned way, scrolling.

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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2016, 01:37:39 pm »
Nah, Trump crapped all over the last best hope we had to begin restoring the system made this nation great in the first place.

Anyway, the die is cast - the choices before us are nationalist populism vs. maoist socialism.
And he poisoned the well for years to come on true Conservatism.
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Re: Predicting November: Doubts creep into Trump-Clinton polls
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2016, 01:50:17 pm »
Ocean, I don't have you on ignore. I ignore you the old-fashioned way, scrolling.

Me too ac.  Some people aren't worth the reply. 
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