Author Topic: About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’  (Read 523 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’
Canadian Free Press, By  Dan Calabrese, May 31, 2016

Of all the arguments offered by the #NeverTrumpers, the one most often put forward and least explained is this one: Even if Trump would be a marginally better president than Hillary, it will wouldn’t be worth electing him because a Trump presidency would be the death of the conservative movement.

.../

We start with Shapiro’s observation that conservatives are “desperate for a leader.” That may well be true, but if it is then you can’t blame Donald Trump for coming along and being willing to lead. The better question is why there was no recognized, effective leader before him. Is it because every potential leader who came along was inadequate? Or is it because very good but not perfect people came along who could have been effective, but the rank-and-file spit them out like lukewarm coffee because they were not perfect, and today conservatism demands ideological purity above all else?

.../

I can’t help but notice that the conservative grassroots tends to turn on their heroes right about the time they get elected to something, and it’s discovered that you can’t govern in as pure a fashion as you can campaign - because that same Constitution you revere for the limits on government also limit any one officeholder’s ability to do only what he wants to do. As soon as a guy makes a deal to get half a loaf (and everyone will make a deal to get half a loaf at some point), he’s a liberal RINO establishment cocktail party apostate squish. He’s done. Mark Levin is denouncing his betrayal and the troops are now marching in lockstep behind the latest guy who has never governed anything but claims he would do so as a “true conservative” if he ever got the chance.

Ronald Reagan, who these people claim to revere, said that someone who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is not your 20 percent enemy. They’ve gone way past that. They think someone who agrees with them 94 percent of the time is their 100 percent enemy. That’s what happens to leaders of the conservative movement. You can’t blame Donald Trump for that.

.../

For all the huffing and puffing about their principles, how much success have “true conservatives” achieved with their decades of moral and ideological vanity? Rob and I were talking the other day about conservative policy successes since Reagan left office - actual policies implemented and undertaken successfully between 1989 and today.

I came up with five, two of which - the 1997 capital gains tax cut and the now-decimated Defense of Marriage Act - happened with a Democrat in the White House. The others were the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, and the ban on partial birth abortion. Rob added a variety of Second Amendment victories courtesy of the Supreme Court.

That’s it. Maybe we forgot something obscure and esoteric, but the conservative movement hasn’t exactly been on a winning streak for the better part of three decades. You can blame that on all the RINO squishes that you think keep selling you out, but dude, when you’re the movement you’re judged by your ability to achieve your goals. If you can’t elect the guys who get it done, or you can’t understand what it takes to get it done, or you don’t have the patience to play a long game like the left does, or you can’t persuade enough of the public to back your ideas so they become more politically viable for elected officials to support, then you ultimately own the failures.

That being the recent legacy of the conservative movement, it’s hard to take seriously the argument that we can’t elect Trump because it would so mortally damage such an essential movement. Maybe a movement more focused on policy successes than organizing cruises and coronating its own media celebrities could be put forward as that essential. The one we have? I do not think so. If Trump could burn it down that easily, then it’s not that strong and certainly not that vital to begin with.

A truly effective conservative movement would seek to help President Trump govern better, recognizing that it would also risk association with some of his failure, but nonetheless valuing the best interests of the nation above its own short-term positioning. The one we have (some of it, anyway), is content to let Hillary take power so it can yelp from the sidelines.

Maybe that’s the really telling thing. Maybe the conservative movement believes yelping from the sidelines is really all it’s good at, which is why it would rather have an easy foil like Hillary as the target for its complaints. If that’s the case, then it’s not so vital a movement after all. At some point, if you’re to be taken seriously, you have to take the opportunity to govern and do the best you can. And you don’t get to wait until the opportunity is easy or perfect. At least people with real courage don’t demand such conditions. Only movements driven by their own moral and ideological vanity.

And movements like that are nowhere near as essential as they would like you to think.



Read more at:  http://canadafreepress.com/article/about-this-idea-that-trump-would-destroy-the-conservative-movement







« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 07:10:52 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Quote
A truly effective conservative movement would seek to help President Trump govern better, recognizing that it would also risk association with some of his failure, but nonetheless valuing the best interests of the nation above its own short-term positioning. The one we have (some of it, anyway), is content to let Hillary take power so it can yelp from the sidelines.

 :thumbsup2:

Offline INVAR

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About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’
That’s it. Maybe we forgot something obscure and esoteric, but the conservative movement hasn’t exactly been on a winning streak for the better part of three decades. You can blame that on all the RINO squishes that you think keep selling you out, but dude, when you’re the movement you’re judged by your ability to achieve your goals. If you can’t elect the guys who get it done, or you can’t understand what it takes to get it done, or you don’t have the patience to play a long game like the left does, or you can’t persuade enough of the public to back your ideas so they become more politically viable for elected officials to support, then you ultimately own the failures.

So *blank* Conservatism because it is a losing proposition and belief system and go with Nationalist Populism because that is what the mob wants.

Got it.

No thanks.

Your King Presumptive and your horde said you didn't need principled or Social (Biblical Christian) Conservatives - you would "win" without us.

So go - "win" without us.  You don't want us, we don't want you or your monarch.

Post edited for language by Mod1
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 07:41:49 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Mod1

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@INVAR  your post was edited.  Please keep the profane and extremist language off of the forum.  Thank you

Offline INVAR

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@INVAR  your post was edited.  Please keep the profane and extremist language off of the forum.  Thank you


So use of F**$%*& to denote where profanity would exist is verboten?

Because that is what I did.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DiogenesLamp

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About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’



Could he do worse than George HW Bush?   Or for that matter George W Bush?   Or Mitt Romney?   


I already knew I would be screaming at the Television if Mitt Romney won the election.   (Just as I screamed at it when I saw  George HW do colossally stupid things. ) 


I doubt Trump can screw us up worse than did George HW,   and George HW was exponentially better than Bill Clinton. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline catfish1957

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@INVAR  your post was edited.  Please keep the profane and extremist language off of the forum.  Thank you

Oops...I dropped a few off color words like calling Hillary a "B".  Is there a line of demarcation on profanity?  If so, I'll dial it back.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 08:06:24 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on Today at 03:08:15 PM
About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’
That’s it. Maybe we forgot something obscure and esoteric, but the conservative movement hasn’t exactly been on a winning streak for the better part of three decades. You can blame that on all the RINO squishes that you think keep selling you out, but dude, when you’re the movement you’re judged by your ability to achieve your goals. If you can’t elect the guys who get it done, or you can’t understand what it takes to get it done, or you don’t have the patience to play a long game like the left does, or you can’t persuade enough of the public to back your ideas so they become more politically viable for elected officials to support, then you ultimately own the failures.

@INVAR --- Why did you post this as a quote from Right_in_Virginia?  It isn't my quote.

Please fix this.  Thanks.

Offline INVAR

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@INVAR --- Why did you post this as a quote from Right_in_Virginia?  It isn't my quote.

Please fix this.  Thanks.

You fix it.  You posted it.  I quoted your post.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline don-o

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About this idea that Trump would ‘destroy the conservative movement’
Canadian Free Press, By  Dan Calabrese, May 31, 2016

Of all the arguments offered by the #NeverTrumpers, the one most often put forward and least explained is this one: Even if Trump would be a marginally better president than Hillary, it will wouldn’t be worth electing him because a Trump presidency would be the death of the conservative movement.

 

Replying to the topic starter puts the name of whoever started  it in all the reply comments. I think. Never relized that; but  I am new to this format.

Offline Jazzhead

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Could he do worse than George HW Bush?   Or for that matter George W Bush?   Or Mitt Romney?   


I already knew I would be screaming at the Television if Mitt Romney won the election.   (Just as I screamed at it when I saw  George HW do colossally stupid things. ) 


I doubt Trump can screw us up worse than did George HW,   and George HW was exponentially better than Bill Clinton.

The issue (for me at least) isn't whether Trump's policies, such as they are, would be better or worse than a Bush or a Clinton.   I've spent forty years preaching GOP solidarity,  and realize that my abandonment of the presumptive nominee is subject to a charge of hypocrisy.   But it's not about policy differences, or even about Congress's ability to temper those policies with which I disagree - it's about the man's temperament and fundamental unfitness for the Presidency.   He cannot be allowed to get close to the White House and the power of the office, because a vindictive, impulsive megalomaniac cannot be trusted with such power.

That's why, unlike some others here,  I will not simply stay home or vote for a vanity candidate.   I must vote to defeat Trump and the danger he represents.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide