Author Topic: A right-wing revolt against Trump? Dream on. Conservatives never truly spoke for the Republican Party rank-and-file  (Read 1900 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male
SOURCE: NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/george-hawley-right-wing-revolt-trump-dream-article-1.2648696

by George Hawley

_______________________________________

Despite firing every weapon in their arsenal, the conservative pundit class failed to thwart Donald Trump’s conquest of the Republican Party. They, and especially those who carried the banner of #NeverTrump during the final months of the GOP primaries, face a dilemma: Get behind Trump, hoping to defeat Hillary Clinton and at least wield some influence in Washington, sit out the election (or even support Clinton) — or break with the GOP and back a third-party candidate.

Although it is late in the year to organize a new campaign without an existing party’s label, conservatives like Bill Kristol are actively pitching the idea. Such an effort would be a total fiasco for conservatives.

No matter the candidate, a third-party presidential nominee dedicated to conservative purity would be an absolute electoral failure.

Conservative elites, who speak for some number of principled Republicans, despise Trump because he is not a “true conservative.” They are right about that; he is not really a conservative.

But they are wrong to believe this represents a major electoral problem for him.

To be a true, unpolluted conservative in America today, one must be a free-market purist, a believer in limited government, a cultural traditionalist and a superhawk on foreign affairs. Never mind that these principles are only loosely connected. And forget that the conservative intellectual movement was an ideological marriage of convenience based on the sociopolitical circumstances of the early Cold War. The important point now is that Trump is not sincerely attached to those positions.

To conservative elites, that’s apostasy; these core principles are supposed to be nonnegotiable.

What they miss is that, while Trump is not a consistent conservative, neither is your average Republican voter. When it comes to actual policy preferences, Trump’s nativism and economic populism are a much better match for rank-and-file Republicans than the “Jack Kemp model” of Republicanism promoted by Paul Ryan and The Wall Street Journal.

If we look at what Republicans in the electorate actually tell pollsters, we cannot miss the disconnect between what the GOP has been selling for years and what GOP voters have been champing at the bit to buy.

A quick review of the 2012 National Election Study, a joint project of Stanford and the University of Michigan, demonstrates this. The Republican rank and file are not opposed to new taxes on high earners (62% supported tax increases on millionaires); fewer than one in 10 wanted to cut spending on Social Security; 63% supported restrictions on foreign imports.

On social issues, Republican voters are also more moderate than the conservative elites that claim to speak for them. In 2012, fewer than one in five Republicans nationwide wanted to ban abortion in all circumstances. A majority of Republicans favored legal recognition for same-sex couples.

The conservative movement’s takeover of the Republican Party — begun by Barry Goldwater and completed by Ronald Reagan — was an impressive tactical victory. However, the movement never convinced regular voters of the wisdom of its anti-government message.

Which is to say, most Republicans in the electorate support the party in spite of its affiliation with the conservative movement, not because of it.

Over the years, purist conservatives maintained their influence on public policy by co-opting or keeping other varieties of right-wing politics off the table and out of view. For six decades, they successfully purged dissenters from their ranks and kept potential upstarts on the right on the margins of political life.

From its rejection of the John Birch Society in the 1960s and Pat Buchanan’s movement in the 1990s, the conservative elite has policed the right and maintained its status as the only viable alternative to the progressive egalitarianism of the Democratic Party.

Trump finally, forcefully broke through this blockade, offering Republican voters a right-wing populist alternative to conservatism. There’s no going back, at least not this year.

Running a principled conservative candidate in the general election would only shine a spotlight on what the Trump campaign has already revealed: Conservatism, as the ideological movement defines it, is not a mass movement. It does not have widespread popular support.

Even worse for conservatives, if they abandon the GOP now, running their own failed candidate instead, they will lose the influence they presently have over the Republican Party, and without sway among Republican policymakers, the conservative movement does not have anything.

Hawley, an assistant professor of political science at the University of Alabama, is author of “Right-Wing Critics of American Conservatism.”

geronl

  • Guest
I'd like to see the GOP try and cope without all those grassroots volunteers

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Did ya hear that, gang? We've finally had our 'purist conservative'  hammerlock on public policy-making broken.

All hail Donald of Orange!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:09:11 am by skeeter »

Offline Optiguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 96
I'd like to see the GOP try and cope without all those grassroots volunteers
"Even worse for conservatives, if they abandon the GOP now, running their own failed candidate instead, they will lose the influence they presently have over the Republican Party, and without sway among Republican policymakers, the conservative movement does not have anything."

Because the GOP isn't led by conservatives.

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,021
  • Gender: Female
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
I agree with this article, it explains it as well as anything I've read on the subject. 

I know a lot of Republicans that are not Social Conservatives.  Our culture is not very conservative and I think that number is growing.  Let's face it, most SoCons can blame themselves for a lot of this. 

We sat back while progressives took over our schools.

We sat back while they took over what our family watches on TV and movies.

We sat back while they took over our culture. 

We sat back while they infiltrated our churches.

We sat back while they took over our government.

And NOW - people want to change the system?   To think that 50 years of neglect can be reversed and it not take generations to take it back to the "good old days"?

We all need to acknowledge our fault in this.  We should have nipped it in the bud.  These Progressives have been working on a hundred year plan - they are patient and passionate - they have groomed their offspring for it (Obama - Holder - Jarrett - etc). 

Have people not noticed that we haven't had good candidates for a long time?  This is because we sat back and let them change what America means - WE did that!



I've said it before - Christians are very much to blame for a lot of the troubles in the world now - because we didn't fight to protect our God-given rights and way of life. 



Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,965
Hawley gets a few things wrong. First, he says Trump has smashed the conservatives in the Republican Party. He certainly came out ahead of everybody else this primary. Why was that? Was it because the people who voted for him all rejected conservative values as propagated since the sixties by the likes of Barry Goldwater and W. F. Buckley Jr.?
Hardly. Trump owes a great deal of his success to one huge issue...The Wall. Although other Pubbie candidates spoke about stricter border enforcement, Trump was the loudest voice. It was on this issue that he was able to surge. And remember most primaries he still only got 35 to 40% of the vote. If non-elite regular Pubbies were so sick of conservative philosophy, why didn't Trump get 60 to 70% of the vote?  Or more?
The answer is obvious ...but not to Prof. Hawley.  Many of the people who voted for Trump didn't necessarily reject the conservatism as propagated by the leading lights of the movement. They were voting for The Wall. Most or many of them still consider themselves conservatives and adhere to the basic messages of the present conservative movement.
Certainly, a number of them, especially those from the Alt-right, think Trump is going to be their white race champion. Many of them are anti-Semites.    I guess they don't know that Trump has children who married Jews.
As much as I dislike Trump, I don't regard him as being bigoted.
And  guess what Prof. Hawley...I'm for stricter border enforcement too. I don't know if we need a wall, but if that's what it takes to cut down on illegals, I'm all for it. I'm just not for Trump.
In short, this is not a thorough rejection of conservatism by everybody in the Pubbie middle class. This is a one shot deal by a political Bonaparte who will take the party God knows where. But if he wins or loses, most Pubbies, rich, middle class, or poor, have not rejected conservatism. They're just afraid of being overrun by people who they think won't assimilate. They picked the wrong candidate to fix the problem, but anybody can make a mistake.
When the smoke clears, conservatism will still be a strong voice in the Republican Party. And Prof. Hawley will have to retract his statements.

geronl

  • Guest
I agree with this article, it explains it as well as anything I've read on the subject. 

I know a lot of Republicans that are not Social Conservatives. 

Social Conservatives (most are also fiscal conservatives) should abandon the GOP and get their own party.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,273
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
I agree with this article, it explains it as well as anything I've read on the subject. 

I know a lot of Republicans that are not Social Conservatives.  Our culture is not very conservative and I think that number is growing.  Let's face it, most SoCons can blame themselves for a lot of this. 

We sat back while progressives took over our schools.

We sat back while they took over what our family watches on TV and movies.

We sat back while they took over our culture. 

We sat back while they infiltrated our churches.

We sat back while they took over our government.

And NOW - people want to change the system?   To think that 50 years of neglect can be reversed and it not take generations to take it back to the "good old days"?

We all need to acknowledge our fault in this.  We should have nipped it in the bud.  These Progressives have been working on a hundred year plan - they are patient and passionate - they have groomed their offspring for it (Obama - Holder - Jarrett - etc). 

Have people not noticed that we haven't had good candidates for a long time?  This is because we sat back and let them change what America means - WE did that!



I've said it before - Christians are very much to blame for a lot of the troubles in the world now - because we didn't fight to protect our God-given rights and way of life.

Hear!  Hear!    Lea!! :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,965
I agree with this article, it explains it as well as anything I've read on the subject. 

I know a lot of Republicans that are not Social Conservatives.  Our culture is not very conservative and I think that number is growing.  Let's face it, most SoCons can blame themselves for a lot of this. 

We sat back while progressives took over our schools.

We sat back while they took over what our family watches on TV and movies.

We sat back while they took over our culture. 

We sat back while they infiltrated our churches.

We sat back while they took over our government.

And NOW - people want to change the system?   To think that 50 years of neglect can be reversed and it not take generations to take it back to the "good old days"?

We all need to acknowledge our fault in this.  We should have nipped it in the bud.  These Progressives have been working on a hundred year plan - they are patient and passionate - they have groomed their offspring for it (Obama - Holder - Jarrett - etc). 

Have people not noticed that we haven't had good candidates for a long time?  This is because we sat back and let them change what America means - WE did that!



I've said it before - Christians are very much to blame for a lot of the troubles in the world now - because we didn't fight to protect our God-given rights and way of life.
"I know a lot of Republicans that are not Social Conservatives"

I would bet most Republicans who are not social conservatives are more likely to be part of the Pubbie elite than poor or middle class Pubbies. If you're quoting some of your "non-social conservative" friends, unless those complaints are all yours, they sound like people who are very concerned with social problems.
Many Trump voters weren't rejecting conservative social issues....they were voting for the Wall. Otherwise, they'd be Sanders or Clinton supporters. In short, they wouldn't be Republicans.
  I would bet that many who voted for Trump because of the Wall are very conservative in their social views. It's just this election they chose to listen the siren song of a political hypnotist. Win or lose, after Trump is gone most of them will still be social conservatives.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 01:17:17 am by goatprairie »

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,021
  • Gender: Female
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads

...

Certainly, a number of them, especially those from the Alt-right, think Trump is going to be their white race champion. Many of them are anti-Semites.    I guess they don't know that Trump has children who married Jews.

...

Are you kidding me?   :thud: 

That is YOUR opinion, and a revolting one at that.  Opinions are NOT facts!

The rest of your statement is a reasoned one - and then you throw that crap out there???  Stuff like that really hurts your cause.   **nononono*




To address something you said in your thread below this one - those complaints I voiced are strictly MY complaints - no one else's.
Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,965
Are you kidding me?   :thud: 

That is YOUR opinion, and a revolting one at that.  Opinions are NOT facts!

The rest of your statement is a reasoned one - and then you throw that crap out there???  Stuff like that really hurts your cause.   **nononono*




To address something you said in your thread below this one - those complaints I voiced are strictly MY complaints - no one else's.
Are you serious? Are you aware that every white-rights/white nationalist group supported Trump and heaped scorn on all his Pubbie opponents? He is the champion of the anti-semites and other similar groups for whom race is everything.
Like I said, I don't think Trump is a racist, and not everybody who voted for Trump is a racist. But virtually everybody who is a white racist who voted voted for Trump.  They think Trump will be the champion of the white race.  I don't think Trump gives two hoots about that idea, but he's still their champion. That's a fact.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other". - John Adams

We lost the culture and the Constitution and I'm laughing at all the punditry trying to explain how Trump is possible.

Trump is a perfect reflection of a society in the midst of a complete cultural and moral collapse.

Freedom of any kind does not exist for long in such environments.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Quote
Conservatives never truly spoke for the Republican Party rank-and-file

Bullsh*t
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
I'd like to see the GOP try and cope without all those grassroots volunteers

Is it me...or are you seeing it too...Trump supporters...these Nationalist Populist goose steppers...joining with the left to try and re-write the impact that the Conservative base of the GOP has had on national politics...and in turn...lessen the accomplishments of Reagan at the same time?

Revisionist history..no matter who does it..is disgusting and dishonest..
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,409
Quote
What they miss is that, while Trump is not a consistent conservative, neither is your average Republican voter.
This is the sad truth. A lot of people who truly believe they are staunch, dyed-in-the-wool conservatives still manage to defend significant exceptions to the doctrine, like how we really need big government to solve this-or-the-other problem of particular concern to them.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline Mod1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,654
This is an opinion piece and has been moved to the appropriate category. 

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,965
This is the sad truth. A lot of people who truly believe they are staunch, dyed-in-the-wool conservatives still manage to defend significant exceptions to the doctrine, like how we really need big government to solve this-or-the-other problem of particular concern to them.
Maybe so...but I would bet the average Pubbie voter has very strong ideas about social issues. They might bridle at free trade and "banksters" and such, but as far as big social issues, they're pretty steadfast on traditional morals.

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,409
Maybe so...but I would bet the average Pubbie voter has very strong ideas about social issues. They might bridle at free trade and "banksters" and such, but as far as big social issues, they're pretty steadfast on traditional morals.
True. But it's my observation that while many conservatives truly are conservative on some issues, e.g., social issues,  they remain very far from conservative on others. The problem, in my opinion, is that they don't understand - or desire - what it means to be a true conservative. For those folks, being partially conservative is enough. And that's pretty much what they get from the GOP: partial conservatism.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,154
True. But it's my observation that while many conservatives truly are conservative on some issues, e.g., social issues,  they remain very far from conservative on others. The problem, in my opinion, is that they don't understand - or desire - what it means to be a true conservative. For those folks, being partially conservative is enough. And that's pretty much what they get from the GOP: partial conservatism.

There have always been 'partial' conservatives. That's the analogy of the 3-legged stool.

The factions each consider themselves to be 'THE' conservatives.

It is Reagan Conservatism that knits them together - A Reaganite candidate must embrace all the principles of all the factions. That's the whole idea of Reagan Conservatism. It does me no harm to vote for a candidate that not only holds my factions principles, but yours too, and the other guy's...

Offline the_doc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,171
"Even worse for conservatives, if they abandon the GOP now, running their own failed candidate instead, they will lose the influence they presently have over the Republican Party, and without sway among Republican policymakers, the conservative movement does not have anything."

Because the GOP isn't led by conservatives.

As I understand the REPUBLIC established by the CONSTITUTION, the GOP is not even led by REPUBLICANS.

Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten
But it's my observation that while many conservatives truly are conservative on some issues, e.g., social issues,  they remain very far from conservative on others.

Is there a single uniting principle?  I'm reaching the conclusion that there is not, and instead there is a collection of positions, unrelated to each other in any way except for being called "conservative".  I quickly grow tired of political charges that someone is or is not a real conservative, in the absence of a definition, but I no longer know what is that definition.  In particular for trade policy and foreign affairs we don't seem to have a consensus definition on what "conservative" means.

I can't think of an issue on which my position would not be identified as "conservative" by most people but I have begun down-playing "conservative" as my position because I can't define it in the abstract.  FWIW I find much in Trump's past and present I disagree with, consequently I'm not a Trump supporter.  However I'm not looking for a debate here on whether or not Trump is a conservative, I want to know what the word now means.

Any ideas from the forum?
James 1:20

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,154
Is there a single uniting principle?  I'm reaching the conclusion that there is not, and instead there is a collection of positions, unrelated to each other in any way except for being called "conservative".  I quickly grow tired of political charges that someone is or is not a real conservative, in the absence of a definition, but I no longer know what is that definition.  In particular for trade policy and foreign affairs we don't seem to have a consensus definition on what "conservative" means.


It's a simple thing - Wikipedia can probably tell you all you need to know.

Look up the factions:
Fiscal Conservatism
Defense Conservatism
Social Conservatism
and Civil-libertarianism

Then look up
Goldwater Conservatism
and finally Reagan Conservatism.

I have heard something like your statement often this year. Perhaps the NeoCons have finally succeeded in redefining conservatism. I sure would hope not.


Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten

Look up the factions:
Fiscal Conservatism
Defense Conservatism
Social Conservatism
and Civil-libertarianism


Your answer seems to be "no."
James 1:20

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Is there a single uniting principle? 

Nope.

We cannot even agree on what the definition of Liberty means as it was intended by the Founders and Framers.

So no.  We are a nation now forever divided and already conquered from within.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten
Nope.

We cannot even agree on what the definition of Liberty means as it was intended by the Founders and Framers.

So no.  We are a nation now forever divided and already conquered from within.

I definitely agree that the country is divided, and I can't see a way forward to glue it back together.  Maybe we should change the National Anthem to "Humpty Dumpty."  And your example of the definition of Liberty is quite insightful.

But my question is not about the unity of the USA, it's about the definition of "conservative."  Is there some single, specific concept on which all people who call themselves "conservatives" agree?  I can't think of one.
James 1:20