Author Topic: A Response to my Conservative #NeverTrump Friends...By Dennis Prager  (Read 1710 times)

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Offline Relic

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E X A C T L Y ! ! !    :beer:

But there is proof of what Hillary will deliver.

Oceander

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But there is proof of what Hillary will deliver.

And very good reasons Trump will deliver the same. 

Offline Relic

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And very good reasons Trump will deliver the same.

My point is, and you're free to ignore whatever you wish to ignore, we don't know for sure what we get with Trump. We are absolutely sure what's coming with Hillary.

I'd rather have a chance. Worst case, Trump turns out to be like Hillary in how he governs, and Congress opposes him at every turn, (regardless of which party controls Congress).

Offline Jazzhead

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One practical issue for many of us disgusted by both candidates is which one will be easier to impeach.   That's probably Trump, and probably the best argument for Trump that I can think of. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Oceander

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My point is, and you're free to ignore whatever you wish to ignore, we don't know for sure what we get with Trump. We are absolutely sure what's coming with Hillary.

I'd rather have a chance. Worst case, Trump turns out to be like Hillary in how he governs, and Congress opposes him at every turn, (regardless of which party controls Congress).

I know as much about what we get with Trump as what we get with Clinton because I know the soil he springs from and I spent 12 years living under his carbon copy: another billionaire NYC businessman who registered republican immediately before the election, who had no discernible political past, and who governed as a mainline liberal.  And there are any number of other wealthy NYC business people who are raving liberals.  Tom Steyer is another who comes to mind; a major hedge fund manager turned radical liberal political agent.  Add to that the fact that real estate in NYC is particularly subject to crony capitalism and you end up with just another wealthy liberal in Trump.  The fact that he's an admitted liar when it comes to negotiating deals - and an election is at bottom a negotiation with the electorate - simply puts the cherry on top. 

We will get with Trump what NYC got with Bloomberg: a very liberal "republican".

Offline Relic

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I know as much about what we get with Trump as what we get with Clinton because I know the soil he springs from and I spent 12 years living under his carbon copy: another billionaire NYC businessman who registered republican immediately before the election, who had no discernible political past, and who governed as a mainline liberal.  And there are any number of other wealthy NYC business people who are raving liberals.  Tom Steyer is another who comes to mind; a major hedge fund manager turned radical liberal political agent.  Add to that the fact that real estate in NYC is particularly subject to crony capitalism and you end up with just another wealthy liberal in Trump.  The fact that he's an admitted liar when it comes to negotiating deals - and an election is at bottom a negotiation with the electorate - simply puts the cherry on top. 

We will get with Trump what NYC got with Bloomberg: a very liberal "republican".

So you have to consider the reality of the situation, and try to contain your rabid hatred of Trump.

The reality is, neither Trump nor Hillary are good. I happen to think Hillary is worse, but that's an opinion, and not a provable fact.

Trump has put out a list of USSC potential nominees, and the anti Trumps say he won't adhere to it. Well, you can say that about any candidate on any subject.

If Hillary is president, Congress will be a door mat for her. A GOP controlled Congress would wet their pants thinking of opposing the first woman president, just has they have with the first black president. A Democrat controlled Congress, well, do I have to spell that out?
If Trump is president, there is political incentive for either party controlling Congress to oppose him.

The situation, as I see it, is that we get Clinton or Trump, period. Of the two, Trump has some potential for good, Hillary has almost no potential for good. Trump is likely to be contained, Clinton will have free reign.

Oceander

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So you have to consider the reality of the situation, and try to contain your rabid hatred of Trump.

The reality is, neither Trump nor Hillary are good. I happen to think Hillary is worse, but that's an opinion, and not a provable fact.

Trump has put out a list of USSC potential nominees, and the anti Trumps say he won't adhere to it. Well, you can say that about any candidate on any subject.

If Hillary is president, Congress will be a door mat for her. A GOP controlled Congress would wet their pants thinking of opposing the first woman president, just has they have with the first black president. A Democrat controlled Congress, well, do I have to spell that out?
If Trump is president, there is political incentive for either party controlling Congress to oppose him.

The situation, as I see it, is that we get Clinton or Trump, period. Of the two, Trump has some potential for good, Hillary has almost no potential for good. Trump is likely to be contained, Clinton will have free reign.

Clinton will have no more, and no less, free rein than will Trump.  If the Congress can constrain Trump, then they can just as easily constrain Clinton.  If they cannot constrain Clinton, then they will not be able to constrain Trump. 


Offline Relic

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Clinton will have no more, and no less, free rein than will Trump.  If the Congress can constrain Trump, then they can just as easily constrain Clinton.  If they cannot constrain Clinton, then they will not be able to constrain Trump.

We are in complete disagreement on that point.

Oceander

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We are in complete disagreement on that point.

Clearly. 

Offline RetBobbyMI

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The U.S. Congress is a joke, a laughing stock of the country.  Well, maybe not as much as say Brazil, but not far behind.  They only have their own self preservation as their primary interest.  The ONLY remedy is a one term limit.  Take election out of the picture.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Relic

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The U.S. Congress is a joke, a laughing stock of the country.  Well, maybe not as much as say Brazil, but not far behind.  They only have their own self preservation as their primary interest.  The ONLY remedy is a one term limit.  Take election out of the picture.

My only concern with a one term limit is that it may simply accelerate the Congress person's efforts to gain wealth by any means available. With no chance of re-election, there would be no need to even pretend to be legitimate.

Offline RetBobbyMI

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My only concern with a one term limit is that it may simply accelerate the Congress person's efforts to gain wealth by any means available. With no chance of re-election, there would be no need to even pretend to be legitimate.
So what's the difference other than time from now?  They have ethics rules too, but see what that does for us.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Relic

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So what's the difference other than time from now?  They have ethics rules too, but see what that does for us.

Not much.