Author Topic: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement  (Read 14829 times)

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Bill Cipher

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2016, 10:22:24 pm »
FWIW I do think the GOPe "never trumpers" will support Trump. Their fear was that their grasp on the reigns of power and the benefits of it were going to be taken from them by an outsider. They are coming around to the realization that Trump is one of them. He's not going to change anything meaningful. DC will remain the center of power and nothing will be returned to states, or individuals.

It will be the conservative "never trumpers" that will not be converted.

In the end Trump may not need the conservatives anyway. He may get enough Rats to cross over. I still can't believe a majority of the country would elect such a crude, vile, man, but I couldn't believe Evangelical Pro-Life Christians would support him either.


#NeverTrump means never Trump

Offline INVAR

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2016, 10:29:16 pm »
In the end Trump may not need the conservatives anyway. He may get enough Rats to cross over. I still can't believe a majority of the country would elect such a crude, vile, man, but I couldn't believe Evangelical Pro-Life Christians would support him either.

Never underestimate mass movements borne of a demagogue that preys upon the base aspects of fear, anger and revenge in the name of nationalism and self-preservation.

History and human nature have limitless examples of what we are watching be played out right before our eyes, along with the results and consequences that the vast majority pretend and insist cannot be experienced by us.

In this way, Trump's appeal is to the majority of the country that finds no use for God, the Constitution or the bible - and sees Government and men in positions of power as their benefactors and hammers to be applied to everyone and everything they see as a nail.

We are, sadly  - a tiny minority now in this country. And to both the Ruling Class Establishment, the Marxists and especially the rabid Trump supporters - you and I are the nails right now.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 10:30:42 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Fantom

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2016, 10:32:31 pm »
Trump would have to repudiate everything he's done and said for the last few decades and show proof that he's had a conversion from liberal charlatan.  Without objective proof his words are nothing more than "truthful hyperbole," lies not worth the breath it took to speak them. 

Good luck with that one as he keeps digging that hole even deeper.

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 10:39:41 pm »
That's from the Washington Onion, right?

Offline Bigun

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2016, 11:42:00 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2016, 02:16:56 am »
Never underestimate mass movements borne of a demagogue that preys upon the base aspects of fear, anger and revenge in the name of nationalism and self-preservation.

History and human nature have limitless examples of what we are watching be played out right before our eyes, along with the results and consequences that the vast majority pretend and insist cannot be experienced by us.

In this way, Trump's appeal is to the majority of the country that finds no use for God, the Constitution or the bible - and sees Government and men in positions of power as their benefactors and hammers to be applied to everyone and everything they see as a nail.

We are, sadly  - a tiny minority now in this country. And to both the Ruling Class Establishment, the Marxists and especially the rabid Trump supporters - you and I are the nails right now.

The only word that accurately describes your post is....ludicrous. Your perception of yourself as part of tiny minority of noble, god loving islands of constitutional love is comical at best. Your belief in the constitution is no deeper than that of Trump advocates...though clearly your understanding of it is less. Your belief in a deity is no more valid or strongly held than Trump followers. And your view that large government is bad is also held by Trump supporters just as dearly as you do. Trump supporters have been fighting the establishment from day one, as he himself has....as businessman, he used the establishment to his own ends (which just demonstrates his mastery of it in both instances).

In short, you are not part of a tiny group of moral "right-fighters" clinging to truth, justice and the American Way. Rather, you are part of a small group of religious elitists angry that "their boy" was defeated in the GOP primary. You are clinging to the ideal that your religious beliefs are superior to everyone elses, that you are somehow more moral, and that only you care about the preservation of the constitution. You are entirely wrong on all three counts and your views are not throwbacks to the Founder, they are the very thing our Founding Fathers fought to escape from when they rebelled against the British.

If you want modern day analogies to Trump, you could at least go with something rational like a Vanderbilt or a Crassus...those comparisons don't really work, but at least they are examples of men who have accumulated power by overcoming the "establishment". Comparisons to fascists and murderers just make the person issuing them appear to be a dolt.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2016, 02:40:32 am »
The only word that accurately describes your post is....ludicrous. Your perception of yourself as part of tiny minority of noble, god loving islands of constitutional love is comical at best. Your belief in the constitution is no deeper than that of Trump advocates...though clearly your understanding of it is less. Your belief in a deity is no more valid or strongly held than Trump followers. And your view that large government is bad is also held by Trump supporters just as dearly as you do. Trump supporters have been fighting the establishment from day one, as he himself has....as businessman, he used the establishment to his own ends (which just demonstrates his mastery of it in both instances).

In short, you are not part of a tiny group of moral "right-fighters" clinging to truth, justice and the American Way. Rather, you are part of a small group of religious elitists angry that "their boy" was defeated in the GOP primary. You are clinging to the ideal that your religious beliefs are superior to everyone elses, that you are somehow more moral, and that only you care about the preservation of the constitution. You are entirely wrong on all three counts and your views are not throwbacks to the Founder, they are the very thing our Founding Fathers fought to escape from when they rebelled against the British.

If you want modern day analogies to Trump, you could at least go with something rational like a Vanderbilt or a Crassus...those comparisons don't really work, but at least they are examples of men who have accumulated power by overcoming the "establishment". Comparisons to fascists and murderers just make the person issuing them appear to be a dolt.

:hands:
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Offline sitetest

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2016, 03:02:33 am »
Lying liberal stumpy can drop dead.

#Nevertrump!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 03:03:47 am by sitetest »
Former Republican.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2016, 03:05:08 am »
Lying liberal stumpy can drop dead.

@mystery-ak

Another FR "refugee"?  Lucky, lucky us. 

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2016, 03:07:30 am »
@mystery-ak

Another FR "refugee"?  Lucky, lucky us.

Don't you just love supporting an authoritarian jerk who is literally despised by whole swaths of the American public?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2016, 03:09:31 am »
Don't you just love supporting an authoritarian jerk who is literally despised by whole swaths of the American public?

I had no idea you were running for office.

#neverSinkspur!

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2016, 03:10:57 am »
I had no idea you were running for office.

#neverSinkspur!

« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 03:11:41 am by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2016, 03:12:42 am »
I had no idea you were running for office.

#neverSinkspur!

 :mauslaff: 000hehehehe :happyhappy: :laughingdog:
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2016, 03:16:39 am »


You cannot ride Donald Trump's coattails to victory.  Be brave enough to use your own photo in your campaign ads.  (I think you look kindda cute  ^-^ )





#neverSinkspur!





« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 03:18:54 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2016, 03:22:58 am »
You cannot ride Donald Trump's coattails to victory.  Be brave enough to use your own photo in your campaign ads.  (I think you look kindda cute  ^-^ )






#neverSinkspur!

You are so nasty, RIV.  I never attack you personally, yet you get personal all the time.

That's what I've come to expect from you Trumproids.

And you expect us to join hands and support that vile orange-haired cretin.

#NeverTrump
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2016, 03:32:03 am »
You are so nasty, RIV.  I never attack you personally, yet you get personal all the time.


No, I'm not nasty Sink.  I'm quite fair.

Yet it is you, who with every post attacks me personally, goads me personally, and insults me personally.

Won't vote for you, but I remember when I adored you.  I do miss that Sink.   :bighug:


#neverSinkspur!





« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 03:37:54 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2016, 03:46:53 am »
The only word that accurately describes your post is....ludicrous. Your perception of yourself as part of tiny minority of noble, god loving islands of constitutional love is comical at best. Your belief in the constitution is no deeper than that of Trump advocates...though clearly your understanding of it is less. Your belief in a deity is no more valid or strongly held than Trump followers. And your view that large government is bad is also held by Trump supporters just as dearly as you do. Trump supporters have been fighting the establishment from day one, as he himself has....as businessman, he used the establishment to his own ends (which just demonstrates his mastery of it in both instances).

In short, you are not part of a tiny group of moral "right-fighters" clinging to truth, justice and the American Way. Rather, you are part of a small group of religious elitists angry that "their boy" was defeated in the GOP primary. You are clinging to the ideal that your religious beliefs are superior to everyone elses, that you are somehow more moral, and that only you care about the preservation of the constitution. You are entirely wrong on all three counts and your views are not throwbacks to the Founder, they are the very thing our Founding Fathers fought to escape from when they rebelled against the British.

If you want modern day analogies to Trump, you could at least go with something rational like a Vanderbilt or a Crassus...those comparisons don't really work, but at least they are examples of men who have accumulated power by overcoming the "establishment". Comparisons to fascists and murderers just make the person issuing them appear to be a dolt.

You had a great opening post but much like Trump you can't help letting your anger rule your head.  A couple weeks ago the media was saying Trump was acting "Presidential," for the sole reason that he said "Senator Cruz," instead of "Lyin' Ted."  It didn't last.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2016, 04:09:52 am »
The only word that accurately describes your post is....ludicrous. Your perception of yourself as part of tiny minority of noble, god loving islands of constitutional love is comical at best.

According to Trump-Believers, those who think Trump is no Conservative and whom have no intention of voting for him now, or in November - are a tiny majority that no longer matter.

So laugh if you must, but according to your fellows who would make Trump your prince - noble, God-loving Constitutionalists who will not vote for a Northeastern Liberal running with an "R' after his name, are a tiny minority. 

I was taking them at their assertion.  So even when we agree with you about things, because we will not bend the knee to your King Presumptive - you have ridicule, which as Alinsky noted - is the Left's most potent weapon.

Your belief in the constitution is no deeper than that of Trump advocates...though clearly your understanding of it is less.

Says an acolyte of the movement that openly declares Trump needs to act as a dictator to undo what Obama has done.  Says a zealot for a vulgar man who never once mentions the Constitution and asserts he will use his own authority to impose tariffs and taxes on entire nations and their exports and whose rabid advocates are urging him to do without consent of Congress if he must.  As if Nationalist Agrarian Populist Fascism is in anyway Constitutional.  You make me laugh.

Your belief in a deity is no more valid or strongly held than Trump followers.

The difference is that I do not view Trump as a deity and those that revere him and champion him as a political savior of  the country are guilty of idolatry.

And your view that large government is bad is also held by Trump supporters just as dearly as you do.

Hogwash. They cheer the boilerplate notions of imposing more taxes on the wealthy;  punishing companies like Apple who make products overseas and force them to manufacture "their damn products" in the USA or be banned from selling them here.  A task that will grow the Federal Beast tenfold just to accomplish what he incites his followers into a foaming frenzy into believing he is going to do on their behalf.

Trump supporters have been fighting the establishment from day one, as he himself has....as businessman, he used the establishment to his own ends (which just demonstrates his mastery of it in both instances).

Such masterful spin-masters you are for your prince.  As if using the corrupt Fascist enterprise of quid pro quo while funding the Clintons is something to be proud of .  That Trump-Believers are cheering the likes of McConnell, Boehner and other Establishment leaders for their endorsements after Trump gave high praise about his ability to work with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer while in the same breath denouncing Ted Cruz as a nasty guy he could never work with….. is truly a remarkable hypocrisy you think you can get by us.

In short, you are not part of a tiny group of moral "right-fighters" clinging to truth, justice and the American Way.

Your bunch keeps shouting about how the whole country is going to make Trump your dear leader in a landslide and that those of us who oppose him are such a tiny, tiny group of 'bitter clingers' (to quote one of Trump's many online trolls). So which is it?  We're not a tiny group, or we ARE a tiny group?  I know, I know - *suggestions* are open for constant change according to your presumptive leader.

Rather, you are part of a small group of religious elitists angry that "their boy" was defeated in the GOP primary. You are clinging to the ideal that your religious beliefs are superior to everyone elses, that you are somehow more moral, and that only you care about the preservation of the constitution. You are entirely wrong on all three counts and your views are not throwbacks to the Founder, they are the very thing our Founding Fathers fought to escape from when they rebelled against the British.

Ah.. so we're a *small group* not a *tiny group*.  I guess that must be the difference.   

It's interesting that I had almost the same exact thing said almost verbatim to me from a Bernie Sander's supporter just the evening before last.  My how the ignorant love to imagine history so very differently than the diary writings and minutes of myriad congresses and legislatures of and by the Founders and Framers.  But then, I am reminded that even Reverend Peter Marshall was a crackpot who did not understand History, and that I was his student and friend is immaterial to the "proper" interpretation of history.  So I am reminded often by Leftists and Relativists.  What you think is immaterial and irrelevant to me, just as it is any radical Leftist who spews nearly the same crap you do, for their dear leader.

If you want modern day analogies to Trump, you could at least go with something rational like a Vanderbilt or a Crassus

In your dreams.  The closest and accurate analogy of Trump, his entire campaign, his statements and promises sans the actual violence of the Blackshirts and Squadrisi is that of Benito Mussolini.

Sorry if that offends, but Populist Agrarian, Nationalism with promises of punitive actions by his own hand upon corporations, private citizens and other sovereign nations in the name of 'making America great again' - has frightening parallels to another cult of personality that invented the marriage of corporatocracy and government in the name of national greatness.

Poo-poo that all you like, I know you will.  But the truth of what I stated is out there for anyone to study and discover the same as I did.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 04:13:19 am by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Half Vast Conspiracy

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2016, 04:18:59 am »
The Dangerous Acceptance of Donald Trump

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

From the article:  The American Republic stands threatened by the first overtly anti-democratic leader of a large party in its modern history—an authoritarian with no grasp of history, no impulse control, and no apparent barriers on his will to power.

It seems the author has no grasp of (recent) history.

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2016, 04:37:00 am »
Trump has erected a Great Wall between himself and the conservatives of and formerly of the GOP.
Trump hasn't even attempted to try apologizing to those he alienated.
Trump doesn't really care if he brings unity to the GOP as he is a DemRat plant.
Trump doesn't even know what the constitution says and will be as bad as Obama in following it.
#NeverTrump
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Offline Texas Yellow Rose

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2016, 04:50:09 am »
Mr. Trump is making some tremendous efforts to reach out to former opponents and NeverTrump advocates

That's a joke .... right????
 :silly: :rolling: :mauslaff:  :bigsilly:

Offline washi

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2016, 05:30:14 am »
A valid point.  On Kelo, Trump lines up to the left of Bernie Sanders.  Yet his sycophants still peddle the idea that he is a Conservative.
If you don't like his stance on Kelo today, stick around. It will change tomorrow.

He's not a liberal. He's not a conservative. He's a populist chameleon.

He will say whatever he thinks the majority of "the people" want to hear in order to get elected.

The one plus to that, is that he appears to have a fairly conservative crew of consultants. They sometimes get there too late and are only effective at helping him pull his ignorant foot out of his mouth. However, they seem to have written some good policy positions for his website (which I'm sure he's never read) and they drew up a fairly good list of SCOTUS nominees for him (he has no clue).

For that reason alone, he is the "lesser of two evils" that I'm, again, reduced to voting for. 
Any organization not explicitly conservative will turn liberal over time.

geronl

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2016, 05:45:58 am »


In short, you are not part of a tiny group of moral "right-fighters" clinging to truth, justice and the American Way. Rather, you are part of a small group of religious elitists angry that "their boy" was defeated in the GOP primary.

Ted Cruz could endorse Trump and campaign for him, that won't change Trump. I will still be #NeverTrump.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2016, 05:50:09 am »
The Dangerous Acceptance of Donald Trump

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump
The New Yorker article is right - he is unstable, thereby dangerous.  I am voting Libertarian for president.

Offline Paladin

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Re: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2016, 06:01:51 am »
under any label Trump is a declared enemy of the liberal constitutional order of the United States—the order that has made it, in fact, the great and plural country that it already is. He announces his enmity to America by word and action every day. It is articulated in his insistence on the rightness of torture and the acceptable murder of noncombatants. It is self-evident in the threats he makes daily to destroy his political enemies, made only worse by the frivolity and transience of the tone of those threats. He makes his enmity to American values clear when he suggests that the Presidency holds absolute power, through which he will be able to end opposition—whether by questioning the ownership of newspapers or talking about changing libel laws or threatening to take away F.C.C. licenses. To say “Well, he would not really have the power to accomplish that” is to misunderstand the nature of thin-skinned authoritarians in power. They do not arrive in office and discover, as constitutionalists do, that their capabilities are more limited than they imagined. They arrive, and then make their power as large as they can.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

Anyone who embraces this authoritarian ignoramus owns everything he says, does, everyone he insults, every act of violence at this rallies, from this day forward.  Anyone who thinks Trump would be constrained by the Constitutional order (when Trump has no idea of what that even means) is seriously deluding themselves.

The New Yorker as an authority on why one should oppose Trump?

The New Yorker?

As someone pointed out on another thread it is quite interesting how the anti-Trumpsters invariably use Liberal sources to support their animus.

Quite interesting, sad, and also further evidence of how the background of some of these anti-Trumsters is more than questionable.
Members of the anti-Trump cabal: Now that Mr Trump has sewn up the nomination, I want you to know I feel your pain.