Author Topic: Healing the rift with the NeverTrump movement (Read 14876 times)

Mesaclone · « **on:** May 21, 2016, 02:33:42 pm »

Mr. Trump is making some tremendous efforts to reach out to former opponents and NeverTrump advocates, and his efforts may yet pay some dividends. In my own view, even if he doesn't convert anyone back to the GOP at least his work may mitigate some of the rancor that currently exists within the party and amongst conservatives in general.

Trump's efforts are important and perhaps belated, and as a supporter I'm comfortable acknowledging that much of the current rift is his responsibility due to tone and his own ambiguous ideological history. People have every right to question both his sincerity, his conversion to conservatism in the past few years, and his ability to be presidential. Its Trump's job to come to folks who don't support him and to sell where he wants to take the country as we move forward. And he is doing his best to do this, and I just hope that those who do not now support him can be open minded enough to at least lend him an ear. Trump is doing the right thing here, and for myself it strengthens my support of him as our nominee.

Byron York has a solid article on this subject that was in the Washington Examiner this morning. See link below.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-trump-reaches-out-to-nevertrump/article/2591894

BigHomer · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:36:28 pm »

Quote from: Mesaclone on May 21, 2016, 02:33:42 pm

Mr. Trump is making some tremendous efforts to reach out to former opponents and NeverTrump advocates

sinkspur · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:36:38 pm »

The Dangerous Acceptance of Donald Trump

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

EC · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:37:11 pm »

skeeter · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:37:39 pm »

Quote from: Mesaclone on May 21, 2016, 02:33:42 pm

Mr. Trump is making some tremendous efforts to reach out to former opponents and NeverTrump advocates, and his efforts may yet pay some dividends. In my own view, even if he doesn't convert anyone back to the GOP at least his work may mitigate some of the rancor that currently exists within the party and amongst conservatives in general.

Trump's efforts are important and perhaps belated, and as a supporter I'm comfortable acknowledging that much of the current rift is his responsibility due to tone and his own ambiguous ideological history. People have every right to question both his sincerity, his conversion to conservatism in the past few years, and his ability to be presidential. Its Trump's job to come to folks who don't support him and to sell where he wants to take the country as we move forward. And he is doing his best to do this, and I just hope that those who do not now support him can be open minded enough to at least lend him an ear. Trump is doing the right thing here, and for myself it strengthens my support of him as our nominee.

Byron York has a solid article on this subject that was in the Washington Examiner this morning. See link below.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-trump-reaches-out-to-nevertrump/article/2591894

Props for striking what IMO is the right tone. Your's is the first I've seen from a Trump supporter on any of these forums that actually tried.

Bill Cipher · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:39:25 pm »

Trump would have to repudiate everything he's done and said for the last few decades and show proof that he's had a conversion from liberal charlatan. Without objective proof his words are nothing more than "truthful hyperbole," lies not worth the breath it took to speak them.

Good luck with that one as he keeps digging that hole even deeper.

Bigun · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:40:01 pm »

Imagine what he would be doing if he were trying to piss them off!

Mesaclone · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:48:35 pm »

Quote from: Bill Cipher on May 21, 2016, 02:39:25 pm

Trump would have to repudiate everything he's done and said for the last few decades and show proof that he's had a conversion from liberal charlatan. Without objective proof his words are nothing more than "truthful hyperbole," lies not worth the breath it took to speak them.

Good luck with that one as he keeps digging that hole even deeper.

Look, I'm pretty sure he realizes...as do I...that some of you are never going to give him a fair hearing on his current views and campaign. That's OK, it's your right to oppose him and vote for Hillary or some other 3rd party candidate. No one disputes that. I think all he's hoping for, and I think that applies to the vast majority of Trump supporters, is that those who oppose him really take another open minded look at where the country is right now. And what our genuine options are in this election. As the article notes, for many this will be a bridge too far...but I think its also true that there are others who will be open to at least re-examining what these next 4 years will mean for the nation.

If we lose this election to Hillary, there may not be a way to turn things around...especially once she piles 2-4 very liberal justices onto the Supreme Court. All presidential elections are important, but this one is a "sea-change"...who appoints the bulk of the Supreme Court over these next 4 years is going to set the course of this nation for a full generation. That is worth a second look IMHO.

Formerly Once-Ler · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:52:13 pm »

Quote from: skeeter on May 21, 2016, 02:37:39 pm

Props for striking what IMO is the right tone. Your's is the first I've seen from a Trump supporter on any of these forums that actually tried.

Agreed.

It is probably too little too late, but if Trump actually wants to unify the GOP this is a good first step.

sinkspur · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2016, 02:55:47 pm »

Quote

under any label Trump is a declared enemy of the liberal constitutional order of the United States—the order that has made it, in fact, the great and plural country that it already is. He announces his enmity to America by word and action every day. It is articulated in his insistence on the rightness of torture and the acceptable murder of noncombatants. It is self-evident in the threats he makes daily to destroy his political enemies, made only worse by the frivolity and transience of the tone of those threats. He makes his enmity to American values clear when he suggests that the Presidency holds absolute power, through which he will be able to end opposition—whether by questioning the ownership of newspapers or talking about changing libel laws or threatening to take away F.C.C. licenses. To say “Well, he would not really have the power to accomplish that” is to misunderstand the nature of thin-skinned authoritarians in power. They do not arrive in office and discover, as constitutionalists do, that their capabilities are more limited than they imagined. They arrive, and then make their power as large as they can.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

Anyone who embraces this authoritarian ignoramus owns everything he says, does, everyone he insults, every act of violence at this rallies, from this day forward. Anyone who thinks Trump would be constrained by the Constitutional order (when Trump has no idea of what that even means) is seriously deluding themselves.

Hoodat · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2016, 03:19:05 pm »

Quote from: Bill Cipher on May 21, 2016, 02:39:25 pm

Trump would have to repudiate everything he's done and said for the last few decades and show proof that he's had a conversion from liberal charlatan. Without objective proof his words are nothing more than "truthful hyperbole," lies not worth the breath it took to speak them.

Ditto. It would be refreshing to hear Donald Trump acknowledge that his stance on Kelo defies the Constitution, or that his prior support of an assault weapons ban infringed on the right of the citizen to bear arms, or that his recent support of establishment candidates to defeat their TEA Party challengers was wrong-headed. Heck, I would even settle for a sincere heartfelt explanation of his conversion from Democrat to Republican. But all I see is a Michael Bloomberg replay.

If there was anything - anything at all - that indicated that Trump is a Conservative, then I would reconsider my opposition. But almost a year into it now, I see nothing. Trump still supports universal healthcare, Kelo, taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood, expansion of Executive Branch powers, federal control of state lands, and touchback amnesty. And none of these positions is even remotely Conservative.

Bigun · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2016, 03:21:23 pm »

Quote from: Hoodat on May 21, 2016, 03:19:05 pm

Ditto. It would be refreshing to hear Donald Trump acknowledge that his stance on Kelo defies the Constitution, or that his prior support of an assault weapons ban infringed on the right of the citizen to bear arms, or that his recent support of establishment candidates to defeat their TEA Party challengers was wrong-headed. Heck, I would even settle for a sincere heartfelt explanation of his conversion from Democrat to Republican. But all I see is a Michael Bloomberg replay.

If there was anything - anything at all - that indicated that Trump is a Conservative, then I would reconsider my opposition. But almost a year into it now, I see nothing. Trump still supports universal healthcare, Kelo, taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood, expansion of Executive Branch powers, federal control of state lands, and touchback amnesty. And none of these positions is even remotely Conservative.

His stance on Kelo alone is enough for me to never vote for him!

Hoodat · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2016, 03:38:52 pm »

Quote from: Bigun on May 21, 2016, 03:21:23 pm

His stance on Kelo alone is enough for me to never vote for him!

A valid point. On Kelo, Trump lines up to the left of Bernie Sanders. Yet his sycophants still peddle the idea that he is a Conservative.

libertybele · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2016, 03:47:34 pm »

Quote from: Mesaclone on May 21, 2016, 02:48:35 pm

Look, I'm pretty sure he realizes...as do I...that some of you are never going to give him a fair hearing on his current views and campaign. That's OK, it's your right to oppose him and vote for Hillary or some other 3rd party candidate. No one disputes that. I think all he's hoping for, and I think that applies to the vast majority of Trump supporters, is that those who oppose him really take another open minded look at where the country is right now. And what our genuine options are in this election. As the article notes, for many this will be a bridge too far...but I think its also true that there are others who will be open to at least re-examining what these next 4 years will mean for the nation.

If we lose this election to Hillary, there may not be a way to turn things around...especially once she piles 2-4 very liberal justices onto the Supreme Court. All presidential elections are important, but this one is a "sea-change"...who appoints the bulk of the Supreme Court over these next 4 years is going to set the course of this nation for a full generation. That is worth a second look IMHO.

Never give him a fair hearing on his views? Current views? What you need to understand is what he says, he flip-flops on within days if not hours. I took on open-minded look at where this country is headed long ago and vowed never to support or vote for someone who will continue to lead us down that same path! If I honestly thought Trump was being honest regarding his list of SCOTUS justices and if I thought he could be trusted, I would vote for him in a heartbeat. You expect this orange clown to seat conservative justices when he has no clue about the Constitution or the functionality of government? He lacks credibility and he's a liberal.

#NeverTrump

austingirl · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2016, 05:26:21 pm »

If only we knew what Trump's beliefs and principles are. Everything he says must be taken as a negotiation position or a suggestion. His childish behavior, maniacal tweeting, rash statements, inability to speak coherently, and his smear tactics against his opponents and their families are truly unforgiveable.

Wingnut · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:14:37 pm »

Quote from: Once-Ler on May 21, 2016, 02:52:13 pm

Agreed.

It is probably too little too late, but if Trump actually wants to unify the GOP this is a good first step.

The GOP is dead. Orangejulios drove a stake thu it and sprinkled holy water from two freshly squeezed Corinthians (or was it from two Cardassian's) over the coffin.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:21:48 pm »

Quote from: Mesaclone on May 21, 2016, 02:48:35 pm

Look, I'm pretty sure he realizes...as do I...that some of you are never going to give him a fair hearing on his current views and campaign.

A fair hearing? Are you kidding me? What can possibly be more fair than determining a man's character according to his record?

And WHICH current view? the one he held 6 years ago, 6 months ago, 6 weeks ago, six days ago, yesterday, or today?

Quote

[...] is that those who oppose him really take another open minded look at where the country is right now.

Herein lies the setup for, yet again (ad infinitum), the 'lesser evil' argument. It hasn't ever worked on Conservatives, and it is received with a sour belly even by the average American anymore. Continuing down this path is what has brought us unprincipled politicians instead of insisting upon statesmen.

There isn't a single Conservative who isn't keenly aware of 'where the country is right now'.

So far you have accused my kind of being both unfair and close-minded... That's not going to win any points.

Quote

And what our genuine options are in this election.

Our 'genuine options' in this election are precisely the same as in any election.

Add to your accusations that you consider us too dull to understand 'genuine' options...

Quote

[...] I think its also true that there are others who will be open to at least re-examining what these next 4 years will mean for the nation.

What has changed? What requires any re-examination compared to 6 months ago?

Quote

If we lose this election to Hillary, there may not be a way to turn things around

Great. Vilify the opponent and instill fear... Because Conservatives tend to be the fearful sort... How pitiful that your candidate is so bereft of character that one has to resort to fear to get him elected.

Quote

...especially once she piles 2-4 very liberal justices onto the Supreme Court. All presidential elections are important, but this one is a "sea-change"...who appoints the bulk of the Supreme Court over these next 4 years is going to set the course of this nation for a full generation. That is worth a second look IMHO.

Because Trump is going to do differently? And what is it that we are to use as proof that he would?

INVAR · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:27:31 pm »

Quote from: Mesaclone on May 21, 2016, 02:33:42 pm

Mr. Trump is making some tremendous efforts to reach out to former opponents and NeverTrump advocates

Not a chance this side of the Kingdom of God. Trump and his mobs of fanatical supporters blew up and burned to ashes any possible support from principled Conservatives for either their candidate or the party he has finally killed and buried.

libertybele · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:31:03 pm »

Quote from: INVAR on May 21, 2016, 06:27:31 pm

Not a chance this side of the Kingdom of God. Trump and his mobs of fanatical supporters blew up and burned to ashes any possible support from principled Conservatives for either their candidate or the party he has finally killed and buried.

geronl · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2016, 07:45:01 pm »

Trump continues to attack Ted Cruz and conservatives.

INVAR · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2016, 08:07:09 pm »

Quote from: geronl on May 21, 2016, 07:45:01 pm

Trump continues to attack Ted Cruz and conservatives.

That is because that is who his real enemies are, not the Left or Democrats or Hildabeast. It's Principled Conservatives that cannot be bought or surrender to Populist demands Trump and his horde despise. That is why the Ruling Class Establishment decided to jump on his mass movement.

Populist Agrarian Statist Fascism, or Marxist Communism - two sides of the same coin being swallowed by the emoting revenge-seeking masses, and shoved down your throat as a *choice* this November.

Mechanicos · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2016, 08:39:21 pm »

Quote from: INVAR on May 21, 2016, 08:07:09 pm

That is because that is who his real enemies are, not the Left or Democrats or Hildabeast. It's Principled Conservatives that cannot be bought or surrender to Populist demands Trump and his horde despise. That is why the Ruling Class Establishment decided to jump on his mass movement.

Populist Agrarian Statist Fascism, or Marxist Communism - two sides of the same coin being swallowed by the emoting revenge-seeking masses, and shoved down your throat as a *choice* this November.

Have you looked at your own posts to Trump Supporters?

Mesaclone · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2016, 09:53:54 pm »

Quote from: INVAR on May 21, 2016, 08:07:09 pm

That is because that is who his real enemies are, not the Left or Democrats or Hildabeast. It's Principled Conservatives that cannot be bought or surrender to Populist demands Trump and his horde despise. That is why the Ruling Class Establishment decided to jump on his mass movement.

Populist Agrarian Statist Fascism, or Marxist Communism - two sides of the same coin being swallowed by the emoting revenge-seeking masses, and shoved down your throat as a *choice* this November.

I'd love to hear what a "Populist Agrarian" is...sounds like a charismatic country bumpkin.

Seriously, you've got to up your meds, bro...and take off that foil hat.

bilo · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2016, 10:03:09 pm »

Quote from: Wingnut on May 21, 2016, 06:14:37 pm

The GOP is dead. Orangejulios drove a stake thu it and sprinkled holy water from two freshly squeezed Corinthians (or was it from two Cardassian's) over the coffin.

ROTFLOL!

bilo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2016, 10:13:30 pm »

FWIW I do think the GOPe "never trumpers" will support Trump. Their fear was that their grasp on the reigns of power and the benefits of it were going to be taken from them by an outsider. They are coming around to the realization that Trump is one of them. He's not going to change anything meaningful. DC will remain the center of power and nothing will be returned to states, or individuals.

It will be the conservative "never trumpers" that will not be converted.

In the end Trump may not need the conservatives anyway. He may get enough Rats to cross over. I still can't believe a majority of the country would elect such a crude, vile, man, but I couldn't believe Evangelical Pro-Life Christians would support him either.