Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'

[INVAR]

Yes, a Convention of States is probably the only legal option we have left.  We need to do it.  @libertybele, do you know much about it?  Can we start a thread for it?

Well, if it ever happens and the process and efforts are not corrupted and manipulated like everything else - you better also start creating armed divisions that will be required to implement whatever the states ratify.

Because it is a fact of history that a lawless oligarchy and tyranny is NEVER going to relinquish power without the threat and/or use of force.  They will use the courts, activist judges or pens and phones to simply ignore and nullify whatever ends up making it through the ratification process if it threatens their power and flow of money.

[INVAR]

Born and raised in Chicago.  Lifelong Republican in the town of the democrat machine and voter fraud.

And a blast furnace will spew snowflakes in order to melt steel before a Republican, much less a Conservative ever takes office in that city.

[Sanguine]

Well, if it ever happens and the process and efforts are not corrupted and manipulated like everything else - you better also start creating armed divisions that will be required to implement whatever the states ratify.

Because it is a fact of history that a lawless oligarchy and tyranny is NEVER going to relinquish power without the threat and/or use of force.  They will use the courts, activist judges or pens and phones to simply ignore and nullify whatever ends up making it through the ratification process if it threatens their power and flow of money.

That may well be.  But, I think we should follow through and call for a Convention of States.  It's not that out of the realm of possibility.  There are a number of states who have already committed, and a number more that could be motivated to do so.  You in?

[RetBobbyMI]

And a blast furnace will spew snowflakes in order to melt steel before a Republican, much less a Conservative ever takes office in that city.

If it doesn't implode until the weight of lawlessness and inferno first.

[INVAR]

That may well be.  But, I think we should follow through and call for a Convention of States.  It's not that out of the realm of possibility.  There are a number of states who have already committed, and a number more that could be motivated to do so.  You in?

For one reason alone: so we will have the justification in the eyes of God and a candid world that what will be necessary was unavoidable.

[Sanguine]

For one reason alone: so we will have the justification in the eyes of God and a candid world that what will be necessary was unavoidable.

Good enough for me.

[libertybele]

If we agree that the Federal Beast is corrupt, and has corrupted our institutions and installed an oligarchy and a dictatorship in the Executive …. why do we continue to put faith in the belief we can vote out corrupt tyrants or put our faith in the legitimacy of the election system???

Look, I lived in Cook County once upon a time - served as a precinct captain long ago.  That institutional corruption has gone NATIONAL.  You've seen your last legit national election.

Washington is corrupt.  We have a select few in Congress keeping this country together by a thin thread.  I put my faith in American patriots; faith in those that still honor the Constitution and cherish the principles upon which this country was founded.  We are faced with Trump or Clinton.  There is no way that either one of them is going to lead this country towards restoration.  That is why I feel it is frivolous to vote for either one of them. Restoring this country is only going to happen from the ground up.  County by county ...state by state.   Governors, state legislators, city council members, mayors, etc.

As for creating armed divisions that will be required to implement whatever the states ratify; I'm still hoping for peaceful restoration.


Cruz.  Reigniting the Promise of America.

[INVAR]

As for creating armed divisions that will be required to implement whatever the states ratify; I'm still hoping for peaceful restoration.

I understand, but history clearly teaches that an uncivil society and a lawless government unmoored from foundational and biblical principles is NEVER going to abide the rule of law.  A peaceful restoration is not remotely possible by any stretch of the imagination among such a people and a government.

They currently circumvent the rule of law NOW - why would we assume they will peaceably abide the rule of law then, when the states they hold in contempt decide to pass amendments to restrain them from the tyranny that they so eagerly are attempting to impose on us all?

This is not the time for wishful thinking, hopes and dreams.

This is the time for counting the cost of what will be required.

The tree of liberty is nearly dead from drought, and either we let it die with only our hats in our hands - or we have to be prepared to water it with it's natural manure.

[libertybele]

I understand, but history clearly teaches that an uncivil society and a lawless government unmoored from foundational and biblical principles is NEVER going to abide the rule of law.  A peaceful restoration is not remotely possible by any stretch of the imagination among such a people and a government.

They currently circumvent the rule of law NOW - why would we assume they will peaceably abide the rule of law then, when the states they hold in contempt decide to pass amendments to restrain them from the tyranny that they so eagerly are attempting to impose on us all?

This is not the time for wishful thinking, hopes and dreams.

This is the time for counting the cost of what will be required.

The tree of liberty is nearly dead from drought, and either we let it die with only our hats in our hands - or we have to be prepared to water it with it's natural manure.

I still have faith in our Republic and "We the People". 

[Bigun]

Yes, a Convention of States is probably the only legal option we have left.  We need to do it.  @libertybele, do you know much about it?  Can we start a thread for it?

I would honestly like to know what makes anyone think that those who have no respect for the Constitution as it currently is would suddenly respect an amended Constitution! 

Can someone explain how that would work?

[txradioguy]

I would honestly like to know what makes anyone think that those who have no respect for the Constitution as it currently is would suddenly respect an amended Constitution! 

Can someone explain how that would work?

They have no choice.  2/3'rds of the states ratify the amendment it's the same as if Congress puts out an amendment for ratification by the states.

http://www.conventionofstates.com/faq

[Bigun]

I still have faith in our Republic and "We the People".

Six months ago I would have been with you on that but now I can't be.  We have gone over the cliff and there is no getting back!

“Nothing is more certain than that a general profligacy and corruption of manners make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold the rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual, and slavery must ensue.”

John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men, 1776

“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. “

Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

Both of them were and are exactly right!

[Bigun]

They have no choice.  2/3'rds of the states ratify the amendment it's the same as if Congress puts out an amendment for ratification by the states.

http://www.conventionofstates.com/faq

The Constitution we currently have has been amended 28 times! I doubt seriously that a few more will change a thing! 

[txradioguy]

The Constitution we currently have has been amended 28 times! I doubt seriously that a few more will change a thing!

It's the only option we have left.  The FF's saw a day where we'd be in the situation we're in.  Thankfully George Mason pushed for an alternate way to amend the Constitution if Congress was unwilling to do so.  ANd that is an Article V Convention of States.

And when you thin about it...the cast majority of the 28 Amendments aren't ignored.  It's just certain ones that get in the way of the Left's march towards statism.

CofS will halt that march.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Well... ignoring amendments blatantly would be more than enough reason to impeach... or worse IMO.

[Bigun]

Well... ignoring amendments blatantly would be more than enough reason to impeach... or worse IMO.

Do you honestly think that it's just certain ones ignoring the Constitution?

Who's going to do the impeaching?  If ever there was a president that cried out for impeachment Obama is it and we got cricketts!

[INVAR]

Six months ago I would have been with you on that but now I can't be.  We have gone over the cliff and there is no getting back!

“Nothing is more certain than that a general profligacy and corruption of manners make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold the rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual, and slavery must ensue.”

John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men, 1776

“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. “

Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

Both of them were and are exactly right!

I'll add one more to bolster the warnings the Founders offered and the point you made:

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it." [/i][/color]

John Adams, July 7th, 1775 - letter to Abigail

[INVAR]

And when you thin about it...the cast majority of the 28 Amendments aren't ignored.  It's just certain ones that get in the way of the Left's march towards statism.

CofS will halt that march.

How do you figure that?

The lawless are not going to follow any new laws you try and impose on them.

The corrupt are not going to suddenly abide incorruption just because the people in states they loathe ratified an amendment to a Constitution they have already circumvented and ignored.

The only way Article V works at this late state - is the threat and use of force to impose it on the very corrupt oligarchy and dictatorship that will not allow it to be imposed.

[txradioguy]

How do you figure that?

Passing the proposed amendments affirmatively re-established the States power under the 9th and 10th Amendments.

The lawless are not going to follow any new laws you try and impose on them.

If they aren't in office anymore...how will the be there to break any new amendments that are passed?

The corrupt are not going to suddenly abide incorruption just because the people in states they loathe ratified an amendment to a Constitution they have already circumvented and ignored.

Again one of the amendments is term limits...not just for Congress critters either.  If they aren't there in office or on the bench...how can they circumvent the Constitution?

The only way Article V works at this late state - is the threat and use of force to impose it on the very corrupt oligarchy and dictatorship that will not allow it to be imposed.

If you want to make sure you deligitimize anything an Article V CofS intends to accomplish...giving it the air of a militia movement with the threat of violence will do that.

[INVAR]

If you want to make sure you deligitimize anything an Article V CofS intends to accomplish...giving it the air of a militia movement with the threat of violence will do that.

Then Article V will be as effective in restraining this tyranny we suffer as effectively as passing all those budget resolutions and extensions were to stopping Obama and getting Jeb nominated.

Tyrants will laugh at your efforts and ask how many divisions you got to impose whatever you think it is that will stop them.

Fact of history and human nature: you cannot stop tyranny via civil means.

[libertybele]

Six months ago I would have been with you on that but now I can't be.  We have gone over the cliff and there is no getting back!

I find myself trying to give you a response and sadly I can't come up with a legitimate answer as to why I still have faith other than perhaps wishful thinking. I had predicted that even though we handed Congress the majority during the past mid term elections, that there would be no change. However, I failed to focus beyond that point as I became involved in the presidential primary election...we came so close to obtaining restoration...so close. As for the Convention of States; at best we would amend the Constitution to grant more power to the States and in doing so take power away for the federal government and in essence set forth new limitations upon the Government...enforcement by the masses.  The key perhaps would be making the masses understand that WE are the government. It may or may not work; but I don't see any other open avenues. We have a choice between a Convention of States or accept the status quo and continue to watch the destruction.

[Bigun]

I find myself trying to give you a response and sadly I can't come up with a legitimate answer as to why I still have faith other than perhaps wishful thinking. I had predicted that even though we handed Congress the majority during the past mid term elections, that there would be no change. However, I failed to focus beyond that point as I became involved in the presidential primary election...we came so close to obtaining restoration...so close. As for the Convention of States; at best we would amend the Constitution to grant more power to the States and in doing so take power away for the federal government and in essence set forth new limitations upon the Government. It may or may not work; but I don't see any other open avenues. We have a choice between a Convention of States or accept the status quo and continue to watch the destruction.

I fully understand where you are Belle and want you to know just how much I have come to respect and admire you over these last year or so. 

[libertybele]

I fully understand where you are Belle and want you to know just how much I have come to respect and admire you ofver these last year or so. 

I appreciate the compliment and the feeling is mutual.   

[Bigun]

I fully understand where you are Belle and want you to know just how much I have come to respect and admire you over these last year or so. 

I'm stil holding out some measure of hope that the Republican party will refuse to hand over the keys to Trump in July.

[RetBobbyMI]

I'm stil holding out some measure of hope that the Republican party will refuse to hand over the keys to Trump in July.

I think they have fallen for the Trump trap and succumbed to drinking the orange juice. Time to abandon that sinking ship.