Author Topic: Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'  (Read 122379 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Wake up.  People who don't like Trump (whether because they preferred Cruz or for some other reason) don't need anything from Trump or his supporters.  They don't care whether or not you like them or their candidate because their guy isn't going to be running.  But Trump, and his supporters, certainly want something from those who are not yet supporting Trump.  Specifically, you want (or should want if you're rational) their votes and support.  It is up to the guy who won to rally support to him, not the other way around.  The sooner you guys realize that those who "lost" have no obligation to support your guy, the sooner you might start thinking of ways to convince at least some of them to support Trump.

As it is, the tone of the debate from a lot of Trump supporters is alienating people, and confirming some of their worries about Trump as a candidate.


OMG!!!!  WISDOM!!!

A refreshing breath of fresh air in truth and wisdom!

Read and learn Trump supporters. 

Or not.

If your goal is to continue to alienate, divide and punish Conservatives for refusing to vote the way you demand, we expect you will continue as you have.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Best explanation of what the current situation is I've read yet.

Thanks -- I'm just kind of watching the tactics of some Trump supporters in awe.  Their goal right now should be to win.  That means heal wounds, persuade those who can be persuaded, and politely dismiss those who can't.  Make it look like a Trump Presidency won't be a continuation of a war of insults and personal attacks.  And if that means letting some things slide off your back without retort...hey, you've got the chance you wanted to have your guy become President.  Refighting a primary battle you already won, and that tore the party apart, makes zero sense.  The only people it helps are the NeverTrump crowd who don't want those wounds to heal.

I'm not even sure which group I'm in.  I just know a self-inflicted trainwreck when I see one.

Offline Mechanicos

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If you post a meme with that kind of text on it, it is "the issue" whether that was your intention or not.

Of course, since Cruz isn't going to be the nominee, whether or not he was a true blue "bible-thumper" or not isn't of much relevance any more.  But what is damaging to the Trump platform is the seeming inability of him and so many of his supporters to just let fecal matter go.

Wake up.  People who don't like Trump (whether because they preferred Cruz or for some other reason) don't need anything from Trump or his supporters.  They don't care whether or not you like them or their candidate because their guy isn't going to be running.  But Trump, and his supporters, certainly want something from those who are not yet supporting Trump.  Specifically, you want (or should want if you're rational) their votes and support.  It is up to the guy who won to rally support to him, not the other way around.  The sooner you guys realize that those who "lost" have no obligation to support your guy, the sooner you might start thinking of ways to convince at least some of them to support Trump.

As it is, the tone of the debate from a lot of Trump supporters is alienating people, and confirming some of their worries about Trump as a candidate.
I understand your point. And i agree with it. One of the things tho that is giving #neverTrump strength to continue is because the Cruz supporters they are courting to stay home in November are holding out hope that a Christian Constitutional Conservative (Cruz's crafted image) can still win somehow. On other Threads there is excitement over the possibility the Cruz delegates can refuse to vote for Trump, or change the rules, or free up all bound delegates, etc. Then there are threads pushing the idea enough 3rd party candidates can run to dilute the electoral vote enough to force the vote to congress - who will put Cruz in that way. As long as that hope is out there between 15 percent and 7 percent  of the Conservative base can be manipulated into actively opposing Trump in November.

This is very bad for America as it will only result in the Democrat winning.

Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Mechanicos

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Thanks -- I'm just kind of watching the tactics of some Trump supporters in awe.  Their goal right now should be to win.  That means heal wounds, persuade those who can be persuaded, and politely dismiss those who can't.  Make it look like a Trump Presidency won't be a continuation of a war of insults and personal attacks.  And if that means letting some things slide off your back without retort...hey, you've got the chance you wanted to have your guy become President.  Refighting a primary battle you already won, and that tore the party apart, makes zero sense.  The only people it helps are the NeverTrump crowd who don't want those wounds to heal.

I'm not even sure which group I'm in.  I just know a self-inflicted trainwreck when I see one.
You made a good point, I'm going to stop and just let them post all the hit pieces and lies on trump they want. You are right, picking at the wound does not help healing it.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I understand your point. And i agree with it. One of the things tho that is giving #neverTrump strength to continue is because the Cruz supporters they are courting to stay home in November are holding out hope that a Christian Constitutional Conservative (Cruz's crafted image) can still win somehow. On other Threads there is excitement over the possibility the Cruz delegates can refuse to vote for Trump, or change the rules, or free up all bound delegates, etc. Then there are threads pushing the idea enough 3rd party candidates can run to dilute the electoral vote enough to force the vote to congress - who will put Cruz in that way. As long as that hope is out there between 15 percent and 7 percent  of the Conservative base can be manipulated into actively opposing Trump in November.

This is very bad for America as it will only result in the Democrat winning.

They're going to lose -- Trump is going to win the nomination.  You know that, right?  So let those folks have their fun -- it won't end up mattering.  The only thing that will give them the long-term strength to continue is if you guys keep taking the bait, and keep on reliving that primary.

Edit -- saw your last post.  I think that'll help you guys.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 08:23:03 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Thanks -- I'm just kind of watching the tactics of some Trump supporters in awe.  Their goal right now should be to win.  That means heal wounds, persuade those who can be persuaded, and politely dismiss those who can't.  Make it look like a Trump Presidency won't be a continuation of a war of insults and personal attacks.  And if that means letting some things slide off your back without retort...hey, you've got the chance you wanted to have your guy become President.  Refighting a primary battle you already won, and that tore the party apart, makes zero sense.  The only people it helps are the NeverTrump crowd who don't want those wounds to heal.

I'm not even sure which group I'm in.  I just know a self-inflicted trainwreck when I see one.
Touché !!!
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"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Mechanicos

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They're going to lose -- Trump is going to win the nomination.  You know that, right?  So let those folks have their fun -- it won't end up mattering.  The only thing that will give them the long-term strength to continue is if you guys keep taking the bait, and keep on reliving that primary.
I'm agreeing with you.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Online mystery-ak

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This is an interesting thread let's keep it that way
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Offline sinkspur

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I'm surprised more Trump supporters seem unaware of The Art of the Deal, by guess who?

You get what you want when I get what I want.
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Offline INVAR

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One of the things tho that is giving #neverTrump strength to continue is because the Cruz supporters they are courting to stay home in November are holding out hope that a Christian Constitutional Conservative (Cruz's crafted image) can still win somehow.

No.  Conservative Constitutionalists that still think national elections are legitimate, by and large know that the window to choose a Conservative has been lost.  The hopes to thwart what some see as an even greater danger than Hillary is a delegate fight on the Convention floor or the Electoral college by denying Trump 270 by creative means so the election gets thrown to the House.  I have yet to read someone who actually believes Cruz has a chance to be the nominee.  If so - I think they are seriously deluded into a false hope.

I frankly don't care either way - because I'm convinced the Oligarchy will crown who it thinks will best serve the Fascist gravy train so long as they can make it look like a legit choice of 'the people'.

As long as that hope is out there between 15 percent and 7 percent  of the Conservative base can be manipulated into actively opposing Trump in November.

That will happen regardless, if Trump is the nominee.

This is very bad for America as it will only result in the Democrat winning.

We don't see a difference. 
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline GrouchoTex

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You made a good point, I'm going to stop and just let them post all the hit pieces and lies on trump they want. You are right, picking at the wound does not help healing it.

From your friend and sparring partner:

No, don't  do that. Fight on when you see something incorrect, like we all do.

The thread is "Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward' "

It was bound to rankle some feathers.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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As PROVEN neither Carson or CNN put out the message he was dropping out.
No. Carson said he was pulling out of New Hampshire. He said it. Stop denying it.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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It was bound to rankle some feathers.

More like stir some shite....

The thread title is sort of inarguable.  Sure, the people who supported Trump all along with bear that responsibility going forward.  How can that even be debated?

Offline GrouchoTex

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More like stir some shite....

The thread title is sort of inarguable.  Sure, the people who supported Trump all along with bear that responsibility going forward.  How can that even be debated?

I will be the first to admit, it struck a nerve when we rehashed Iowa all over again.
I thought, "Oh no, not this again!"

Offline skeeter

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That is exactly the way it happened.
And, yes @Maj. Bill Martin, it is beating a dead horse.
I don't have any idea why Trump supporters keep bringing it up.
Frankly, I too, should let it go and quit trying to set it all straight.
It doesn't matter today, the race has been run.
I guess I'm still tired of being told that I didn't see what I saw.

Speaking for myself only, I feel like the record needs to be set straight because I see Cruz as an asset. I hope he's around in the future because articulate voices in service of the constitution are becoming an anachronism.

It'd be a shame if these lying memes were to follow him into the future.

Offline roamer_1

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If conservative = greeting the invaders at the border with soccer balls, gift baskets and nubby blankets, yeah, I guess Cruz is a conservative.

Indeed it is. Being charitable is decidedly a conservative (and Christian) virtue.

Offline Sanguine

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No he didn't.  It's a flat out lie that he will do his very best to hold onto the thinnest of straws to claim is the truth.

that's Exhibit A as to why you still have "pissed-off Cruz supporters"...the Trump supporters don't know how to win graciously.  It's too much for them to win with dignity and move on and maybe extend an olive branch to people who supported Cruz to possibly get us to pull the lever for him in November.

They are having too much fun with the schoolyard childish BS and showing that the Left doesn't have the market cornered when it comes to low information voters.

I'm going to disagree with you as to why we still have pissed off Cruz supporters - we are angry because:

1. We had an actual, genuine Constitutional conservative running competitively for the first time in a long time,
2. Trump and his media minions ran a very dirty campaign ("Lyin' Ted") and knocked Cruz out of the running,
3. Trump and his supporters continue the abuse and lies, and expect us to come over to them,
4. And, as you say above they are monumentally poor winners.

Just speaking for myself.


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I'm going to disagree with you as to why we still have pissed off Cruz supporters - we are angry because:

1. We had an actual, genuine Constitutional conservative running competitively for the first time in a long time,
2. Trump and his media minions ran a very dirty campaign ("Lyin' Ted") and knocked Cruz out of the running,
3. Trump and his supporters continue the abuse and lies, and expect us to come over to them,
4. And, as you say above they are monumentally poor winners.

Just speaking for myself.

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Offline olde north church

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Indeed it is. Being charitable is decidedly a conservative (and Christian) virtue.

And following the law means nothing. 
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Mechanicos

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[redacted]
That will happen regardless, if Trump is the nominee.

We don't see a difference.
Thanks for a reasoned response.

I disagree Trump will be the same or worse than Hillary.
Here is my reasoning:

In Management there are a few methods to predict future behavior. The Strongest is of course Past Behavior. Another strong one is reason for motivation to produce. 

The fact is Trump got seeded with one million dollars and turned it into arguably worth 10 Billion with thousands of people working for him and a very low business failure rate. If he had a reputation as a slime ball in that we would be hearing about it from thousands of people, business partners, employees, sparring partners, etc. What does stand out is he has a reputation as an egotistical turn-around manager - taking hundreds if not thousands of poorly run or failing businesses and making them work. So other then the few exceptions and they are very few for his history he has a reputation in business as a straight shooter, diplomatic and respected.  This leads me to why I think his motivation is to "fix" America.

Hes wealthy, very wealthy, It can be argued how much but he has no need of money or power. he is 70 and can live in the lap of luxury for the rest of his life no matter what happens to America.  However he was a family he loves and a legacy to leave behind. It also appears he loves America. The usual motivations to for people to get into office is money and power. Its a hard job, very damaging to the family and self. Why would a Super Rich Person put themselves thru what is required to run today for the Highest office of the land? It is my educated guess that he really does want to leave behind a legacy as the Greatest Turn-around manager in the world as well as a safer and better country for his progeny.

Decades ago he said he would not run for President unless the country got really bad. It is my opinion he really does want to try to repair the last couple decades damage.

I cannot see the usual motivations that drive the normal politicians involved here. So yes I think its his ego driving this but to satisfy it he has to deliver an America he can brag about.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 09:22:40 pm by Mechanicos »
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Leto

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Well a decent man was lied and smeared by Trump and his sycophants, during the campaign. The lies and slander of Cruz by Trump followers has continued.

Not doing much to persuade me to vote for Trump.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Speaking for myself only, I feel like the record needs to be set straight because I see Cruz as an asset. I hope he's around in the future because articulate voices in service of the constitution are becoming an anachronism.

It'd be a shame if these lying memes were to follow him into the future.

I guess, at the end of the day, that is what is fueling my fire, too.
I like Cruz. I have since he ran in the Primary against Dewhurst.
If he is wrong, he is wrong, but if he is right, (as in this case) he is right.
I'd give that courtesy to anyone, and would ask for it in return.

Offline INVAR

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Thanks for a reasoned response.

Yes!  Isn't it nice that we can finally reason together - even if we know it is not going to change our minds?

Here is my reasoning:

In Management there are a few methods to predict future behavior. The Strongest is of course Past Behavior. Another strong one is reason for motivation to produce. 

The fact is Trump got seeded with one million dollars and turned it into arguably worth 10 Billion with thousands of people working for him and a very low business failure rate. If he had a reputation as a slime ball in that we would be hearing about it from thousands of people, business partners, employees, sparring partners, etc. What does stand out is he has a reputation as an egotistical turn-around manager - taking hundreds if not thousands of poorly run or failing businesses and making them work. So other then the few exceptions and they are very few for his history he has a reputation in business as a straight shooter, diplomatic and respected.  This leads me to why I think his motivation is to "fix" America.

Hes wealthy, very wealthy, It can be argued how much but he has no need of money or power. he is 70 and can live in the lap of luxury for the rest of his life no matter what happens to America.  However he was a family he loves and a legacy to leave behind. It also appears he loves America. The usual motivations to for people to get into office is money and power. Its a hard job, very damaging to the family and self. Why would a Super Rich Person put themselves thru what is required to run today for the Highest office of the land? It is my educated guess that he really does want to leave behind a legacy as the Greatest Turn-around manager in the world as well as a safer and better country for his prodigy.

You make an argument that explains in perfect detail why the world and a secular society would view Trump's wealth, business acumen and industry achievements as worthy proof he is the best choice to Administer the country.

For a biblical Christian Conservative, those attributes are of the world and the stature of measurement is of the world.   They do not speak to the moral character of the candidate.  Nancy Pelosi is wealthy beyond words.  She has a business empire she and her husband run.  Her character is one that is completely unfit to hold any public office, and on that score you and I would agree.  Christian Conservatives are applying the biblical principles and attributes God's Word says are necessary for someone seeking office.    And we have assessed and judged Trump's own fruits and words in this campaign - as someone unfit for the office he seeks.

I cannot see the usual motivations that drive the normal politicians involved here. So yes I think its his ego driving this but to satisfy it he has to deliver a America he can brag about.

Ego is a dangerous thing for someone to flaunt while seeking the highest power in the land my friend.

I understand the attraction for so many - as we have not had someone telling the Establishment, the Left and the Marxist Democrat Party to "shove it" for decades.  Many want payback, revenge or someone who looks like they will fight for what has been diminished and stolen from us by those entrusted to obey their oaths to the Constitution.

A measurable record of someone who is a law unto himself, and is unable to maintain his marriage vows while bragging about his infidelity and indiscretions is not someone Biblical Christian Conservatives will trust to keep the vows he swears and affirms to uphold and defend the Constitution.

And much of his behavior and statements have added to the affirmation that we cannot support such a man for the position he seeks, ESPECIALLY when the Executive has been fundamentally transformed into a quasi-dictatorship by the current occupant with the full approval and enabling of the party Trump is running under.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline jmyrlefuller

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And following the law means nothing.
What law did he violate?
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Speaking for myself only, I feel like the record needs to be set straight because I see Cruz as an asset. I hope he's around in the future because articulate voices in service of the constitution are becoming an anachronism.

It'd be a shame if these lying memes were to follow him into the future.

The longer the meme is discussed, the longer it will likely last.  But I suspect that it is going to be non-existent/passe by 2018 anyway.  It's just...a Trump thing.  I think most everyone but Trump's true believers are kind of sick of it already.  And they're beyond convincing anyway.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:00:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »