‘There’s nobody left’: Evangelicals feel abandoned by GOP after Trump’s ascent

[don-o]

‘There’s nobody left’: Evangelicals feel abandoned by GOP after Trump’s ascent

 Katie Zezima May 8 at 11:23 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/theres-nobody-left-evangelicals-feel-abandoned-by-gop-after-trumps-ascent/2016/05/08/a133991e-130f-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html

 LINCOLN, Neb. — Pastor Gary Fuller planned a Sunday service focused on involving Christians in the political process and featuring a speech by the pastor father of Sen. Ted Cruz. But after a week in which Cruz abruptly dropped out of the race, his father scrapped his appearance here and Donald Trump became the Republican Party’s standard-bearer, a dismayed Fuller kept the political portion short.

“Vote according to your convictions,” Fuller told congregants at Gentle Shepherd Baptist Church who will cast ballots in Nebraska’s presidential primary Tuesday. “What you believe is the right thing to vote for, according to the Scriptures.”

He told congregants that the church can’t and won’t promote one candidate over another. But Fuller has a hard time stomaching Trump as the Republican nominee and plans to vote for Cruz on Tuesday, even though the senator has dropped out of the race.

“In a sense, we feel abandoned by our party,” Fuller said. “There’s nobody left.”

Fuller and other conservatives whose voting decisions are guided by their Christian faith find themselves dismayed and adrift now that Trump has wrested control of the Republican Party. It is a sentiment that reaches from the small, aluminum-sided church with a large white cross on its front that Fuller and his wife built on the Nebraska plains to the highest levels of American religious life. Even progressive Christians — evangelicals and Catholics, among others — who don’t necessarily vote Republican are alarmed that Trump is attracting many voters who call themselves religious. A coalition of nearly 60 Christian leaders — many progressive and some conservative — published an open letter last week asking voters of faith to reject Trump and his “vulgar racial and religious demagoguery,” warning that the nation faces a “moral threat” from the candidate.

continued

[jmyrlefuller]

Link please?

[geronl]

No Acceptable Choice.

[don-o]

Link please?

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up!

[geronl]

He told congregants that the church can’t and won’t promote one candidate over another.

Yes, you can.

[jmyrlefuller]

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up!

No problem. It's a good read.  :thumbsup2:

[don-o]

Post mortem - I believe Cruz absolutely blew it with many Christians. Too narrow and sectarian.

I could not understand how his father was an asset and throwing in with Beck was just bizarre.

@roamer_1 for your thoughts (if we can walk whatever the line is here.)

[libertybele]

Post mortem - I believe Cruz absolutely blew it with many hristians. Too narrow and sectarian.

I could not understand how his father was an asset and throwing in with Beck was just bizarre.

@roamer_1 for your thoughts (if we can walk whatever the line is here.)

I'm not quite sure as to why Cruz didn't get more of the Evangelical/Christian vote.  I disagree. I don't think he was too sectarian nor too narrow. He spoke of Christianity, but I felt his comments encompassed Christians as a whole.  Cruz has core beliefs and sticks to them, there is no doubt about that.  How people who call themselves Christians can align themselves with someone who speaks of violence, degrades women and attacks others so viciously is beyond me. 

As for Glenn Beck, I think he was an asset to Cruz.  I for one am a Glenn Beck fan and found that he possesses some of the same core values as Cruz.

[Chosen Daughter]

“What you believe is the right thing to vote for, according to the Scriptures.”

Well that's the problem.  Could never figure out why any Evangelical would even consider Trump.  It isn't that he isn't a Christian.  Its that he mocked Christ by saying he had no need for forgiveness.  Every Christian should have gotten that according to the scriptures.  John 3:16 everyone knows that one.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Why and how did he give his Son?  As a living sacrifice for sin.  If you deny that you need forgiveness you are a liar.  Everyone sins and falls short of the Glory of God.  Otherwise there would have been no need for Jesus to give his life on the Cross for our sin.

[libertybele]

“What you believe is the right thing to vote for, according to the Scriptures.”

Well that's the problem.  Could never figure out why any Evangelical would even consider Trump.  It isn't that he isn't a Christian.  Its that he mocked Christ by saying he had no need for forgiveness.  Every Christian should have gotten that according to the scriptures.  John 3:16 everyone knows that one.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Why and how did he give his Son?  As a living sacrifice for sin.  If you deny that you need forgiveness you are a liar.  Everyone sins and falls short of the Glory of God.  Otherwise there would have been no need for Jesus to give his life on the Cross for our sin.

Exactly and thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten that Trump stated that he didn't need forgiveness.  He makes so many bombastic comments that I have lost track. Trump lied about his opponents for certain, but it is still mind boggling that so many Evangelicals support him.

[A-Lert]

Why did we have a Jimmy Carter but not a Pat Robertson? Why did we have a 2 term Bill Clinton?

[LonestarDream]

Post mortem - I believe Cruz absolutely blew it with many hristians. Too narrow and sectarian.

I could not understand how his father was an asset and throwing in with Beck was just bizarre.

@roamer_1 for your thoughts (if we can walk whatever the line is here.)

Thanks for posting this Don.  Thought Cruz's dad was an asset in venues like this.

Cruz had to compete with Carson and Trump's charisma in the South.

Also, we are becoming more secular as a society.

[Mechanicos]

Cruz failed the Fruit of the Tree Test.

[roamer_1]

Post mortem - I believe Cruz absolutely blew it with many Christians. Too narrow and sectarian.

I could not understand how his father was an asset and throwing in with Beck was just bizarre.

roamer_1 for your thoughts (if we can walk whatever the line is here.)

I find this to be a simply mechanical result. Likewise Romney was able to be nominated, as was McCain - Neither particularly attractive as a candidate to Christians (to be kind)...

Go lurk at a purely Christian forum, and you will find all of this making very little impact among them. Largely, they aren't even paying attention yet. As a group, Christians tend not to be politically engaged.

You and I, and folks hereon are the Conservative Christian bellwether. Social Conservatives who ARE politically aware and active can be used to predict where the Church will go in the General - But while we are many, we are not enough to control the primary.

Huckabee is a good lesson, and Cruz followed suit. Christians are enough to get them out of the cheap seats, but not strong enough to get them  the win in the primary.

However, that does not diminish our power in the General - Since the advent of Christian Conservatism with Reagan  the Christians are the kingmakers. The Republicans hate it, chaffing against it, but it has been true all the same.

Maybe Trump is the one that finally drives it !UP! the middle, as Neocons have been trying to do all the way along.
Maybe the Church has been weakened enough that liberal left denominations have finally overpowered their roots.
But I don't think so.

This will end just like Romney and McCain.

[don-o]

.

This will end just like Romney and McCain.

In retrospect, I tend see that Romney's loss as simply the harbinger of this so-called "insurgency movement" of this cycle. I could still justify to myself the "lesser evil" position, so I votee for him. I cannot do that now with Trump.

Your point about most Christians not paying attention is interesting. And it reinforces my point about Cruz making a tactical mistake in over emphasizing. For me, there was an element of pandering and that is not attractive.  If it is indeed the case that Conservative Christians are not paying attention in the primaries, why was Cruz (and his father and Beck) talking to them so much?

It is going to be very interesting, to say the least. Russell Moore's recent words will have huge resonance. And if the Catholics will remind themselves of the actual history of Nativism in this nation,  Trump may have a big Catholic Problem.

(Hopefully, we can have a discussion without devolving into a sectarian squabble. I want to focus on how people think and how they integrate  what they claim to believe with how they act.)

[mountaineer]

I take any of the Washington Post's broad, general pronouncements on Christians and what they believe with a grain of salt.

[don-o]

I take any of the Washington Post's broad, general pronouncements on Christians and what they believe with a grain of salt.

I understand that oft' expressed misgiving regarding this, that or the other source. Boring.

[Mechanicos]

I take any of the Washington Post's broad, general pronouncements on Christians and what they believe with a grain of salt.

Its intentional and organized:
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewGroups.asp?type=media

[don-o]

Its intentional and organized:
 

[roamer_1]

In retrospect, I tend see that Romney's loss as simply the harbinger of this so-called "insurgency movement" of this cycle. I could still justify to myself the "lesser evil" position, so I votee for him. I cannot do that now with Trump.

G.W. Bush was the last 'lesser evil' for me... And since then, I have yet to vote for a Republican president.

I didn't vote for Romney because he is a screaming liberal, just like his daddy was. His being Mormon wasn't the problem for me - Mormons are pretty populous in the Rockies, and living among them as I do, I am confident in their Conservative lifestyle and strong adherence to the Judeo-Christian ethic... Though I am certain that bias was part of it elsewhere. I was far less confident of those things being in Romney than in Mormonism generally.

McCain was a declared enemy of Conservatism. Didn't even have to look up his record.

As far as applying a strict Christian outlook to them, neither one got past the doorstep, as both advocated for Planned Parenthood, and both were soft on abortion (to be kind). Life being seen as paramount to the Christian political class, there's the nonstarter... Don't need to look any further.

Your point about most Christians not paying attention is interesting. And it reinforces my point about Cruz making a tactical mistake in over emphasizing. For me, there was an element of pandering and that is not attractive.  If it is indeed the case that Conservative Christians are not paying attention in the primaries, why was Cruz (and his father and Beck) talking to them so much?

I don't think it was a tactical mistake, exactly. I think he'd have done just fine if it had not been for Trump's smear campaign. I hold that to be the singular cause of his downfall.

Huckabee is the lesson, I think. When he ascended, it was only the Christians lifting him up - Let's face it, he had nothing for the rest of Conservatism. But with just the Christians pushing, he remained a strong challenger late into the primary.

I think that is what Cruz was pushing for, and he got it. You may be right that he pushed it too hard (trying to turn out the Christians in record numbers), but I am a poor judge of that. As you know I am very Spirit oriented. I get along best with such folks, and it doesn't surprise me that most Messianics come out from Pentecostal and (Southern) Baptist origins. So I may be immune to the effect of such upon the more staid denominations and faiths. The last I looked, Christians find Southern Baptists to be well within the fold - but as I said, I am probably not a good judge in that.

It is going to be very interesting, to say the least. Russell Moore's recent words will have huge resonance. And if the Catholics will remind themselves of the actual history of Nativism in this nation,  Trump may have a big Catholic Problem.

I would hope so, and I would submit that he almost certainly has a Conservative Catholic problem already. I noticed that many of the outspoken on ToS, those that were (in this case) my comrades in arms were noticeably Catholic stalwarts. They remain admirably and utterly adamantine on the issue of Life (as every Christian ought to be), and they ain't buying Trump's disingenuous packaging.

I would submit that most Christians will need to look no further than Life. And his statements since securing the nomination (wrt Life) will sour them further.

(Hopefully, we can have a discussion without devolving into a sectarian squabble. I want to focus on how people think and how they integrate  what they claim to believe with how they act.)

I hope so too - this is an important factor.

[OldSaltUSN]

“What you believe is the right thing to vote for, according to the Scriptures.”

Well that's the problem.  Could never figure out why any Evangelical would even consider Trump.  It isn't that he isn't a Christian.  Its that he mocked Christ by saying he had no need for forgiveness.  Every Christian should have gotten that according to the scriptures.  John 3:16 everyone knows that one.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Why and how did he give his Son?  As a living sacrifice for sin.  If you deny that you need forgiveness you are a liar.  Everyone sins and falls short of the Glory of God.  Otherwise there would have been no need for Jesus to give his life on the Cross for our sin.

Spot on, C.D.  Excellent post.

Trump supporters  ("some" or maybe "many", but feels like "most") go ballistic when I claim to be #NeverTrump because #ForeverChristian.  They simply cannot believe that a man would refuse to "win with Trump", due merely to Christian principles.  They believe I am a fake, as both a Christian and conservative.  They simply cannot fathom, it seems, that someone might believe in "absolute truth", nor let the Bible be his guide.  The number of times I've been accosted online for my faith by Trump supporters in the past month exceeds by a factor of 5x to 10x all secular humanist/atheists that I've run into combined in my entire 60 year lifetime.

When one of these mocks Cruz for his faith, and then turns "prayerfully religious", I have to wonder "what kind of god does he worship?".  But most of the time, it's obvious the Trump supporter is an atheist, using Trump as an opportunity to "stick it" to the Christians he/she so hates.

I tell them simply that you cannot intimidate, mock, "guilt", or insult me into supporting Trump.   I honestly wish there were some magic condition in which I could vote for Trump, to defeat Hillary.   However, even if Trump suddenly had a Christian "conversion" experience, he's been such a inveterate liar that I still could not support him.   If he suddenly apologized for the false witness against Cruz and many other candidates, if he apologized for his various gleefully admitted sins, maybe gave most of his fortune to Samaritans purse (e.g. a veritable Christian charity), was endorsed by his Christian opponents, well, I'm still not sure.  Franklin Graham, who I respect quite a bit, could even testify to Trumps new found faith, and perhaps some other Christian could join his campaign and the VP, and maybe .....

I just don't see it.   Any Christian Pastor who counseled Donald after his theoretical conversion would urge him, for the sake of his own soul, to emulate Saul of Tarsus, forget the Presidency, and go seek the Lord in some wilderness, out of the public eye.

That's how strongly I feel that Trump is "anti-Christ" (not "THE" Antichrist).  I simply could never support him.   

I haven't got a dog in the hunt for the November election.  I don't believe I'm alone.  I hope as Trump states, i.e. that he doesn't in fact need the Christian conservative vote to win in Novermber, because he hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of receiving it.  This is how badly Trump has "screwed the pooch" for the GOP.  (How could such a result be an accident by Trump?  It would have been so easy to win the nomination, and then the G.E., without the gratuitous insults and lies.)

[geronl]

I find not having a candidate or party quite liberating.

[don-o]

I haven't got a dog in the hunt for the November election.  I don't believe I'm alone.  I hope as Trump states, i.e. that he doesn't in fact need the Christian conservative vote to win in Novermber, because he hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of receiving it.  This is how badly Trump has "screwed the pooch" for the GOP.  (How could such a result be an accident by Trump?  It would have been so easy to win the nomination, and then the G.E., without the gratuitous insults and lies.)

There is all manner of analysis about how Trump is getting away with all that he is getting away with. I believe that pastors, priests and rabbis have a big job in figuring that out as related to their own congregations.

There are so many tangled threads when tying to sort this out and understand the "why"; and I feel somewhat constricted by the caveats I have already seen here concerning what can be discussed. But, perhaps pushing the envelope might help to get clarity.

Though I have not read him in many years, the thought of Francis Schaeffer was a paradigm shifter for me. He was frustrated with what he saw as the confusion and impotence of his own ministry. He and his son, Frank, did a series of films about how Christianity had inpacted culture in the past and how that influence had been lost.

He also wrote many books on the subject of how to develop a Christian mindset in which he shows hoe and why a Christian's world view  can and must inform every area of his life. nd there were attempt to establish communities based on his thought.

I would suggest him as a good resource for anyone who senses that something is missing in much of how the church engages the world.

[Henry Noel]

I tell them simply that you cannot intimidate, mock, "guilt", or insult me into supporting Trump.   I honestly wish there were some magic condition in which I could vote for Trump, to defeat Hillary.   However, even if Trump suddenly had a Christian "conversion" experience, he's been such a inveterate liar that I still could not support him.   If he suddenly apologized for the false witness against Cruz and many other candidates, if he apologized for his various gleefully admitted sins, maybe gave most of his fortune to Samaritans purse (e.g. a veritable Christian charity), was endorsed by his Christian opponents, well, I'm still not sure.  Franklin Graham, who I respect quite a bit, could even testify to Trumps new found faith, and perhaps some other Christian could join his campaign and the VP, and maybe .....

I just don't see it.

It's always possible to live down the reputation you've earned by past conduct. But it takes time; much time; far more time than we've got.

[driftdiver]

Cruz failed the Fruit of the Tree Test.

But Trump does????