Conservatism Is in Real Trouble

[Chosen Daughter]

Conservatism Is in Real Trouble


 This year is different. Not only was I supporting the best Reagan conservative since Ronald Reagan, but his primary opponent is more objectionable than most GOP candidates in my lifetime.

 Admittedly, Hillary Clinton is the worst Democratic nominee since Obama and could be a worse president. She could complete Obama's fundamental transformation of America.

 So, this should be an easy choice — Donald Trump can't be as bad as Hillary Clinton, so it's a no-brainer, right? It's not that simple. I am extremely bothered by the way Trump conducted himself during this campaign.

 There's no point in ticking off the list of offenses, but they are legion, culminating in his endless "Lyin' Ted" mantra and his suggestion that Ted's father, Rafael Cruz, was involved in JFK's assassination.

 There are just no words. As much as I'm concerned with Trump's fitness for office, character, temperament, integrity and common decency, there are other considerations that might end up being more determinative.

Breaking News at Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Limbaugh/Conservatism-Reagan-Santorum/2016/05/06/id/727563/#ixzz4862tOgFt

http://www.newsmax.com/Limbaugh/Conservatism-Reagan-Santorum/2016/05/06/id/727563/

Conservatism in in real trouble.  And the idea to throw out job killer Mitt Romney isn't going to save the election.  We need a real Conservative.  Funny but when the idea of Mitt was thrown out there one of our very own Trump supporters said we should get behind Mitt 100%.  Makes perfect sense since Trump endorsed Romney in 2012.  They are both the same.  Talk but when you get down to it they are both for using bankruptcy as a business practice to make money and create a loss for American workers.  The business practices of Bain and Romney are well documented.  Employing companies that outsource jobs to foreign companies.  Romney can never win and Trump can't either.  Although Trump does have the people confused.  I believe they will see the light before the Convention.  How about a real Conservative?

[geronl]

I agree with most of this except I am #NeverTrump.  Dishonest Donald cannot be believed except on the matter that he believes in vengeance on anyone in his way.  I will not give him more power to do that.  Hillary is horrible, but even she has more character than mini-mussolini Trump.  I'll vote for neither.  let the socialist left fight it out with the authoritarian right to choose our path of destruction.  I want no part of either.

There is nothing that would make me vote for Trump, nothing

[Chosen Daughter]

I agree with most of this except I am #NeverTrump.  Dishonest Donald cannot be believed except on the matter that he believes in vengeance on anyone in his way.  I will not give him more power to do that.  Hillary is horrible, but even she has more character than mini-mussolini Trump.  I'll vote for neither.  let the socialist left fight it out with the authoritarian right to choose our path of destruction.  I want no part of either.

Agree    We are in a mess.  From my perspective I see a GOP that still thinks they can do business as usual.  They can't.  The American people have shown that they will not put up with it any longer.  Why they can't see that Trump is more of the usual I do not know.  Except perhaps they are so desperate that they close their eyes and pretend that someone is on their side.  But put out there someone that supports more amnesty and outsourcing and they will be met with a blue collar cement wall.

[Hoodat]

I can't vote for anyone who is to the left of Mitt Romney.

[truth_seeker]

"Conservatism Is in Real Trouble"

Which version of "conservatism?" is in trouble? Why? What could be done, to remedy this condition?

Donald Trump has done far more in less than a year, to beathe new vitality, than the entire "conservative" establishment has done in years.

Track record: The GOP has lost the Presidential popular vote for 5 of the last 6 elections.

When the woman was gunned down by an already deported illegal immigrant in San Francisco, and when 14 people were gunned down by a muslim terrorist in San Bernardino, Trump made these issues top priority.

Other Republican candidates would just as soon, babble old nothingness political campaign talk, but do nothing.

Just keep on believing Trump will not win. Do not bother to review the last six months. Do not bother to consider this cycle may not be business as usual.

Go ahead and cling to your tried-and-true "conservative" establishment zones of existence. Deny the Trump phenom.

A week from now, Ryan will have more than met his match, and will be supporting Trump.

(Remember, the Ryan that joined with mild Mitt to lose in 2012? And in so doing, it was widely agreed that Ryan was pretty unimpressive.)

[bilo]

"Conservatism Is in Real Trouble"

Which version of "conservatism?" is in trouble? Why? What could be done, to remedy this condition?

Donald Trump has done far more in less than a year, to beathe new vitality, than the entire "conservative" establishment has done in years.

Track record: The GOP has lost the Presidential popular vote for 5 of the last 6 elections.

When the woman was gunned down by an already deported illegal immigrant in San Francisco, and when 14 people were gunned down by a muslim terrorist in San Bernardino, Trump made these issues top priority.

Other Republican candidates would just as soon, babble old nothingness political campaign talk, but do nothing.

Just keep on believing Trump will not win. Do not bother to review the last six months. Do not bother to consider this cycle may not be business as usual.

Go ahead and cling to your tried-and-true "conservative" establishment zones of existence. Deny the Trump phenom.

A week from now, Ryan will have more than met his match, and will be supporting Trump.

(Remember, the Ryan that joined with mild Mitt to lose in 2012? And in so doing, it was widely agreed that Ryan was pretty unimpressive.)

Whether Trump or Hillary wins doesn't matter to me. I lose both ways. They both represent more govt and less liberty.

I recognize that the USA has rejected conservatism. Unfortunately we never gave it a chance. People have become so infantilized that the idea of being responsible for yourself is terrifying. I don't know how this gets turned around. Conservative media promoted conservatism. Conservative politicians ran on conservatism. The voters decided they wanted anyone except a conservative and we ended up with a carnival barker.

[Hoodat]

"Conservatism Is in Real Trouble"

Donald Trump has done far more in less than a year, to breathe new vitality, than the entire "conservative" establishment has done in years.

Vitality for what?  Isolationist liberalism?

If Trump was on board for smaller government and a return to the Constitution, then I would be on board with him.  Unfortunately, Donald Trump views government (in the right hands, of course) as the solution - not the problem.  And considering his naivete when it comes to our Constitution and how our government is set up, it bodes poorly for our future.

Trump isn't breathing vitality.  He is utilizing the anger that is already there and exacting revenge.   There is no hope given that America will come out of the morass it now finds itself.  There is only a sense that those who offend us will be punished.

Donald Trump is a big government guy who has no understanding of the basics of government.  And his comments on restructuring US debt show that he is not fit to be mayor, much less President.

[sinkspur]

"Conservatism Is in Real Trouble"

Which version of "conservatism?" is in trouble? Why? What could be done, to remedy this condition?

Donald Trump has done far more in less than a year, to beathe new vitality, than the entire "conservative" establishment has done in years.

Track record: The GOP has lost the Presidential popular vote for 5 of the last 6 elections.

When the woman was gunned down by an already deported illegal immigrant in San Francisco, and when 14 people were gunned down by a muslim terrorist in San Bernardino, Trump made these issues top priority.

Other Republican candidates would just as soon, babble old nothingness political campaign talk, but do nothing.

Just keep on believing Trump will not win. Do not bother to review the last six months. Do not bother to consider this cycle may not be business as usual.

Go ahead and cling to your tried-and-true "conservative" establishment zones of existence. Deny the Trump phenom.

A week from now, Ryan will have more than met his match, and will be supporting Trump.

(Remember, the Ryan that joined with mild Mitt to lose in 2012? And in so doing, it was widely agreed that Ryan was pretty unimpressive.)

You Trumpkins are so funny.  You refuse to look at polling data, except when it benefits your boy.  You refuse to accept that 75% of women, 81% of Hispanics, 95% of blacks and 53% of white men have an unfavorable view of your guy. Yes, Hillary is unpopular too, but not nearly to the extent that Trump is.

And Trump is determined to keep his bullying, vulgar, insulting, ignorant face in front of the public, further cementing the notion that he is unfit for the presidency.

Ryan may or may not fold. He realizes conservatism and the values he's fought for are at stake.  And I don't look for him to fold just because Trump wants him to.

Trump has already said he doesn't need party unity.  Fine. It's disunity he will get.

#NeverTrump means never, by any means necessary.

[libertybele]

We had a true conservative and Despicable, Deceitful Donald defeated him.  Trump supporters got who they wanted; let them take responsibility for the mess he makes.  My hunch is we are going to lose this country, whether Donny gets in or Hillary gets in.

#NEVERTrump

Cruz.  Reigniting the Promise of America.

[bilo]

We had a true conservative and Despicable, Deceitful Donald defeated him.  Trump supporters got who they wanted; let them take responsibility for the mess he makes.  My hunch is we are going to lose this country, whether Donny gets in or Hillary gets in.

#NEVERTrump

Cruz.  Reigniting the Promise of America.

 

I agree with your hunch that we are going to lose this country. The educational system at all levels is dedicated to indoctrinating the young in the new collectivism. The media are so biased in favor of the left they don't even see it as bias. Our system of govt has empowered the judiciary to the point that even if we can get a majority in the legislative and control of the executive any laws/regulations will be over turned by the courts.  The electoral map has been weighted to favor Rats because illegal immigrants are included in the aggregate even though they don't vote.

So where do we go from here?

Do we seek a carve out and separation from the USA? If so how can that be accomplished.

[austingirl]

We had a true conservative and Despicable, Deceitful Donald defeated him.  Trump supporters got who they wanted; let them take responsibility for the mess he makes.  My hunch is we are going to lose this country, whether Donny gets in or Hillary gets in.

#NEVERTrump

Cruz.  Reigniting the Promise of America.

Total agreement.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Maybe conservatism is just changing with the times. Reaganism has become bland and boring.

Reagan conservatism is more like neo-conservatism: hyper hawkish foreign, free trade, limited government but basic welfare state in place.

But really this position wasn't necessarily "conservative" at all, throughout American history the position of the government was no -entangling alliances and tariffs. More like paleoconservatism.

So maybe the definition of conservative is just yet again changing. People who remember Reagan are dying off. I'm 40 and I barely remember the guy.

The debates were a farce even beyond Trump: Fiorina and Christie sounded like they were ready to nuke Russia the day after entering office. Sorry but people don't really want that. The public is tired of war and hawks.

[Jazzhead]

let the socialist left fight it out with the authoritarian right

That's how I feel, too.  I have no dog in this hunt.  As much as I despise the socialist left and all the damage it has and will do,  I cannot abide the racism of the authoritarian right.   The respectable conservative movement has been usurped by the alt-right.  Buckley and Reagan are spinning in their graves.   As much as I don't want Hillary in the White House, she doesn't threaten conservatism - she doesn't threaten my values - the way that Trumpism does. 

 If I were to support Trump,  I could not hold my head up ever again as a conservative.  I will have soiled the responsible, liberty-centric movement I grew up with in favor of an authoritarian vision that, frankly, disgusts me in a way that Hillary Clinton never could.   I can with pride and principled determination fight Hillary Clinton on the merits.   But if I were to give in to Trump, I will have sold my soul.       

[CommerceComet]

The problem in my view is that we have reached the point that Alexis de Tocqueville warned us about:

The American democracy will endure until the day that Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

It is hard to campaign on conservative principles when the other side can offer free money. I think that Trump will move to the left on entitlements and social issues while trying to differentiate himself from Hillary on security issues. I think he'll try to sound tough on outsiders but benevolent to the insiders. Possibly that is a winning strategy but I have my doubts. 

[bilo]

The problem in my view is that we have reached the point that Alexis de Tocqueville warned us about:

The American democracy will endure until the day that Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

It is hard to campaign on conservative principles when the other side can offer free money. I think that Trump will move to the left on entitlements and social issues while trying to differentiate himself from Hillary on security issues. I think he'll try to sound tough on outsiders but benevolent to the insiders. Possibly that is a winning strategy but I have my doubts.

I think this is exactly what has happened and in the process it's been labeled conservative. Add in the racist element of the authoritarian right and you have the reincarnation of the "Blue Dog Democrats".

For conservatism to succeed you have to have an educated freedom loving people. This election has revealed we don't have a majority of this in the Pub party and in fact the Pub party is being transformed into the "Blue Dog Democrats". In this "Brave New World" how do conservatives and conservatism survive?

I believe we have to start electing individuals who self identify as conservatives and do not join either major political party. We saw a lot of Tea Party conservatives co-opted by the GOPe once they got to DC. If we can elect conservatives, even as a minority, ultimately they can become a key swing vote in determining leadership and passage of legislation. We have to recognize we are a minority and for us to have any influence we can't afford to align ourselves with either party.

[bilo]

That's how I feel, too.  I have no dog in this hunt.  As much as I despise the socialist left and all the damage it has and will do,  I cannot abide the racism of the authoritarian right.   The respectable conservative movement has been usurped by the alt-right.  Buckley and Reagan are spinning in their graves.   As much as I don't want Hillary in the White House, she doesn't threaten conservatism - she doesn't threaten my values - the way that Trumpism does. 

 If I were to support Trump,  I could not hold my head up ever again as a conservative.  I will have soiled the responsible, liberty-centric movement I grew up with in favor of an authoritarian vision that, frankly, disgusts me in a way that Hillary Clinton never could.   I can with pride and principled determination fight Hillary Clinton on the merits.   But if I were to give in to Trump, I will have sold my soul.     

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Cruz.  Reigniting the Promise of America.

Seriously?  The man who made third place his home?

[truth_seeker]

Maybe conservatism is just changing with the times. Reaganism has become bland and boring.

Reagan conservatism is more like neo-conservatism: hyper hawkish foreign, free trade, limited government but basic welfare state in place.

But really this position wasn't necessarily "conservative" at all, throughout American history the position of the government was no -entangling alliances and tariffs. More like paleoconservatism.

So maybe the definition of conservative is just yet again changing. People who remember Reagan are dying off. I'm 40 and I barely remember the guy.

The debates were a farce even beyond Trump: Fiorina and Christie sounded like they were ready to nuke Russia the day after entering office. Sorry but people don't really want that. The public is tired of war and hawks.

"True conservatives" have predictably taken some positions for years, that are highly improbable; namely eliminate Departments of Education, EPA, IRS, make abortions illegal, etc..

They routinely talk of cutting taxes, guarding the border, etc.

And then nothing happens, over and over. After awhile people yawn at their speeches.

Trump woke people up. They believe he means action, not just more talk.

Even if the definition of "conservatism" does not change, it needs vitamins, plenty of exercise etc.

[libertybele]

I agree with your hunch that we are going to lose this country. The educational system at all levels is dedicated to indoctrinating the young in the new collectivism. The media are so biased in favor of the left they don't even see it as bias. Our system of govt has empowered the judiciary to the point that even if we can get a majority in the legislative and control of the executive any laws/regulations will be over turned by the courts.  The electoral map has been weighted to favor Rats because illegal immigrants are included in the aggregate even though they don't vote.

So where do we go from here?

Do we seek a carve out and separation from the USA? If so how can that be accomplished.

Where do we go from here??  Good question.  I believe we really only have one choice left and that is a Convention of States.  Unfortunately that comes with a lot of risk.  Convening to limit the power that the federal government has over the states could also lead to amending the Constitution to granting more power to the federal government. 

Under Trump or Hillary we will definitely see a full swing into socialism or perhaps a dictatorship.  The only choice at that point is for the people to rise up and reject what is happening. Considering that the vast majority of people have sided with Clinton, Trump and Bernie that is something that certainly won't take place overnight.

[bilo]

Where do we go from here??  Good question.  I believe we really only have one choice left and that is a Convention of States.  Unfortunately that comes with a lot of risk.  Convening to limit the power that the federal government has over the states could also lead to amending the Constitution to granting more power to the federal government. 

Under Trump or Hillary we will definitely see a full swing into socialism or perhaps a dictatorship.  The only choice at that point is for the people to rise up and reject what is happening. Considering that the vast majority of people have sided with Clinton, Trump and Bernie that is something that certainly won't take place overnight.

A convention of the states is a great idea. I know several states have already passed legislation supporting this. You're right it does have risks, but unless secession is an alternative what other options are there.

I like the idea of electing unaffiliated conservatives, but this can only take us so far.

If Trump is beaten badly in Nov., there will be changes in the GOP. I'm not confident that they will favor conservatives. I think the GOPe will label the Trump fiasco the fault of the conservatives. If nothing else Bohenor's comments about Cruz showed what the GOPe thinks of conservatism.

[elhombrelibre]

"Conservatism Is in Real Trouble"

Which version of "conservatism?" is in trouble? Why? What could be done, to remedy this condition?

Donald Trump has done far more in less than a year, to beathe new vitality, than the entire "conservative" establishment has done in years.

He's certainly done more than anyone to ruin the Republican party and the conservative movement all for his own mercurial vanity. 

And he's already moving to the left of Hillary. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-donald-trump-is-running-to-the-left-of-hillary-clinton/2016/05/09/ebde82da-147c-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html