The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre

[Ghost Bear]

This week in SF/F history...

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again, was first published in the U.K. by George Allen & Unwin on September 21, 1937.  And...

The Silmarillion, was first published in the U.K. by George Allen & Unwin on September 15, 1977.

Both created of course by J.R.R. Tolkien.

80th anniversary and 40th anniversary, which has the strange kind of symmetry that is pleasing to a mildly OCD brain. The only thing that could make it better would be if both could have been published on the same date, 40 years apart. 

[LateForLunch]

This week in SF/F history...

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again, was first published in the U.K. by George Allen & Unwin on September 21, 1937.  And...

The Silmarillion, was first published in the U.K. by George Allen & Unwin on September 15, 1977.

Both created of course by J.R.R. Tolkien.

80th anniversary and 40th anniversary, which has the strange kind of symmetry that is pleasing to a mildly OCD brain. The only thing that could make it better would be if both could have been published on the same date, 40 years apart. 

Uh, has anyone but me read the Silmarillion !?! Amazing. It is a notch of seriousness above the Rings books or the Hobbit as good as they are. Many don't know that the LOTR and the Hobbit books came after (or rather out of) Tolkien's work on the Silmarillion.  It begs for a serialized screen adaptation (like Game of Thrones), but it would be a formidable undertaking - not everyone cares about good v. evil as a plot idea - also there is some Catholic thematic work in it that would likely raise hackles with vast swaths of the viewing public.

[Ghost Bear]

Uh, has anyone but me read the Silmarillion !?! Amazing. It is a notch of seriousness above the Rings books or the Hobbit as good as they are. Many don't know that the LOTR and the Hobbit books came after (or rather out of) Tolkien's work on the Silmarillion.  It begs for a serialized screen adaptation (like Game of Thrones), but it would be a formidable undertaking - not everyone cares about good v. evil as a plot idea - also there is some Catholic thematic work in it that would likely raise hackles with vast swaths of the viewing public.

I've read it a few times... I first tried to read it shortly after the first U.S. paperback edition came out in 1979 (I was in high school.) I'll admit that I didn't get through it the first time... in fact, I think it took me three tries before I did manage to read all of it. It's a very uneven book; some parts are very dull, some parts are riveting. But I guess that's to be expected due to the way it was put together.

Over the years I've come to appreciate it as a "stroll through history" in regards to Middle Earth, and when the mood strikes I'll take out my copy and wander through it again.

[Free Vulcan]

Uh, has anyone but me read the Silmarillion !?! Amazing. It is a notch of seriousness above the Rings books or the Hobbit as good as they are. Many don't know that the LOTR and the Hobbit books came after (or rather out of) Tolkien's work on the Silmarillion.  It begs for a serialized screen adaptation (like Game of Thrones), but it would be a formidable undertaking - not everyone cares about good v. evil as a plot idea - also there is some Catholic thematic work in it that would likely raise hackles with vast swaths of the viewing public.

I have read it a couple of times years ago. I think you could make at least 6 movies from it and it would indeed be a very big undertaking.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Catching up on the last several weeks of Salvation.  It's actually not that bad after the first few episodes.

[kevindavis007]

Catching up on the last several weeks of Salvation.  It's actually not that bad after the first few episodes.

I think it was the case of the slow start. I do have to admit the last few episodes have been good. If they do bring it back, it might go to CBS All-Access.

[kevindavis007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1u-JxaxYc8

[Ghost Bear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1u-JxaxYc8[/size]

I remember seeing the first teaser trailer for "Interstellar" while at the theater for some other movie. It just had Matthew McConaughey's monologue over scenes of the space race and crop failures, and that final shot of two people watching a rocket take off in the distance... and when it was done I thought, "I have to see that!"

Still one of my favorite SF movies ever.

[kevindavis007]

I remember seeing the first teaser trailer for "Interstellar" while at the theater for some other movie. It just had Matthew McConaughey's monologue over scenes of the space race and crop failures, and that final shot of two people watching a rocket take off in the distance... and when it was done I thought, "I have to see that!"

Still one of my favorite SF movies ever.

To be honest, I had never seen a hard sci-fi flick like Interstellar in the theater. This and the Martian was the exception. When I first saw the teaser trailer for this movie, I was like I had to see this.  Who here isn't like Coop.  One of my favorite hard sci-fi movies.

[LateForLunch]

To be honest, I had never seen a hard sci-fi flick like Interstellar in the theater. This and the Martian was the exception. When I first saw the teaser trailer for this movie, I was like I had to see this.  Who here isn't like Coop.  One of my favorite hard sci-fi movies.

It's got great writing - the story is mostly about the characters as all good drama should probably be.

Mark Twain: (Criticizing a story an amateur sent to him) God help you son. You have a style before you have a story.

People like good stories. It goes back to ancient times - maybe prehistoric.

Some of the highlights are the principle's office scene when Cooper is scolded by some school drone with a political agenda that is more important than the truth. Sound familiar? Kudos to the writers and to the principle for having the courage to speak out.

Also the science, though speculative is within the realm of marginal possibility in some areas. Except one does not survive passage through a black hole's event horizon - according to people who know. Something about the "tidal forces" of all that gravity ripping any sort of conventional matter to atooms. Other parts of that scenario are possible. If one got close to the edge of an event horizon time would likely slow to almost a standstil- which means that those in normal space would age much faster. 

The deus X machina is applied, but tastefully.  The plot is vaguely similar to a plot line in Gene Wolfes' Severian Series . Gravity is a huge question mark in physics. Unlike the other fundamental forces of the universe, gravity is little understood. We don't really know what it IS...
If one miracle is possible, many miracles are also possible.

[Ghost Bear]

Also the science, though speculative is within the realm of marginal possibility in some areas. Except one does not survive passage through a black hole's event horizon - according to people who know. Something about the "tidal forces" of all that gravity ripping any sort of conventional matter to atooms. Other parts of that scenario are possible. If one got close to the edge of an event horizon time would likely slow to almost a standstil- which means that those in normal space would age much faster. 

Thing is, though... *spoiler below*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The black hole was generated by whoever it was that was trying to save humanity (whether that was aliens, or future humanity, is not answered). Since they apparently have mastery of gravity to such an extent, it's conceivable that they manipulated the tidal forces to allow Coop to survive entering the singularity. Which was necessary for him to get the message back to his daughter... which, if the "others" were future humanity, was necessary to enable them to have such control of gravitic forces to allow them to create the black hole in the first place.

In other words... a stable time loop.   ^-^

[240B]

Tried watching a little of the new Orville series on Hulu, couldn't watch it.

Not funny, not compelling, trying way too hard to be contemporary. But most of all, it was simply boring.

It was just a machine gun fire of glib, ad hoc, psudeo-funny, quips after another. Maybe it will find an audience somewhere, but it will not be me. I don't get it.

[kevindavis007]

Some of the highlights are the principle's office scene when Cooper is scolded by some school drone with a political agenda that is more important than the truth. Sound familiar? Kudos to the writers and to the principle for having the courage to speak out.

I'm surprised that was in the movie.  I remember in how the Greenies was hoping this would be a great environmental propaganda. I'm surprised it wasn't. The only message I got out of that movie was that we need to get the frack out off this planet. 

Also the science, though speculative is within the realm of marginal possibility in some areas. Except one does not survive passage through a black hole's event horizon - according to people who know. Something about the "tidal forces" of all that gravity ripping any sort of conventional matter to atooms. Other parts of that scenario are possible. If one got close to the edge of an event horizon time would likely slow to almost a standstil- which means that those in normal space would age much faster. 

I realize that too. Still a damn good movie.

[kevindavis007]

Tried watching a little of the new Orville series on Hulu, couldn't watch it.

Not funny, not compelling, trying way too hard to be contemporary. But most of all, it was simply boring.

It was just a machine gun fire of glib, ad hoc, psudeo-funny, quips after another. Maybe it will find an audience somewhere, but it will not be me. I don't get it.

I'm trying to like it.  I'll be surprised if it lasts a full season.

[240B]

I'm trying to like it.  I'll be surprised if it lasts a full season.

One star on Rotten Tomatoes. It's a dead duck.

It's a rare fail for Seth MacFarlane. If you are going to make a 'funny' SciFi show, and there have been several, Red Dwarf, Futurama, Galaxy Quest, you kind of have to go all the way. And you have to have an understanding of the space genre.

It looks like Seth was not having fun 'with' SciFi, but more like he was making fun 'of' SciFi. I don't know. That was my impression.

[kevindavis007]

One star on Rotten Tomatoes. It's a dead duck.


It's a rare fail for Seth MacFarlane. If you are going to make a 'funny' SciFi show, and there have been several, Red Dwarf, Futurama, Galaxy Quest, you kind of have to go all the way. And you have to have an understanding of the space genre.


It looks like Seth was not having fun 'with' SciFi, but more like he was making fun 'of' SciFi. I don't know. That was my impression.

To be honest, I don't know what the hell is Seth is doing anymore.

[LateForLunch]

Thing is, though... *spoiler below*.
..
The black hole was generated by whoever it was that was trying to save humanity (whether that was aliens, or future humanity, is not answered). Since they apparently have mastery of gravity to such an extent, it's conceivable that they manipulated the tidal forces to allow Coop to survive entering the singularity. Which was necessary for him to get the message back to his daughter... which, if the "others" were future humanity, was necessary to enable them to have such control of gravitic forces to allow them to create the black hole in the first place.

In other words... a stable time loop.   ^-^

Time loop = deus ex machina. Such things are impossible - not because the speculative physics are necessarily wrong, but because Time per se is an illusion. No physicist includes time as a discreet factor in any N-dimensional theorizing. In our universe, time only exists as a relative value -  not an absolute. Things, including the passage of time, may slow or speed up depending on relative velocity or intensity of gravity but that is only vibrational frequencies being slowed - the soup of space-time thickened, so to speak, in one locality. There is no evidence that in THIS universe,  there is any confluence of separate space-time continua - like a reality which exists eternally- and therefore may be revisted the way one goes to a physical location like a National Park. In heaven perhaps. Which is to say the evidence is that the entire physical universe is only a vast vibrating, interacting cosmos in which the Second Law of thermodynamics never spontaneously  reverses itself. What was once an ordered system (like a crystal glass), never spontaeously reassembles itself into an ordered system again once that symmetry is shattered. Chaos can only be made ordered by application of energy outside the chaotic system. Sha-DOO-be.

[Smokin Joe]

Tried watching a little of the new Orville series on Hulu, couldn't watch it.

Not funny, not compelling, trying way too hard to be contemporary. But most of all, it was simply boring.

It was just a machine gun fire of glib, ad hoc, psudeo-funny, quips after another. Maybe it will find an audience somewhere, but it will not be me. I don't get it.

I caught one episode on the cable that came bundled with my fiber optic internet. Well, part of an episode. It launched into a sex change operation for a non human species' baby...
Transparent GBLTQXYZWTF stuff, and not halfway through the first season?
If I want to watch social programming, I don't need it wrapped in poorly written sci-fi. ICK, done, kaput.
Thanks, don't call us we'll call you....
NEXT!

[ABX]

I caught one episode on the cable that came bundled with my fiber optic internet. Well, part of an episode. It launched into a sex change operation for a non human species' baby...
Transparent GBLTQXYZWTF stuff, and not halfway through the first season?
If I want to watch social programming, I don't need it wrapped in poorly written sci-fi. ICK, done, kaput.
Thanks, don't call us we'll call you....
NEXT!

It was a very interesting episode and probably had a different message in the end than you anticipated. Of course, it was probably a Rorschach test, but to me it seemed to be a point of how lately hipster parents are pushing gay/trans/whatever on their babies and raising them that way, this took it to the next level with an actual sex change operation at birth.

The protagonist heroes were arguing against that, saying the baby was born physically a girl and had the right to live as one, not to be changed by the parents.

I've actually seen some posts on social media where the LGBQTABCXYZWHATEVER crowd were not happy at all with that episode because it emphasized being born a gender instead of choosing it.

I'm actually starting to find the show a bit compelling. I thought it would be awful, but it really isn't so far. A bit of old Star Trek camp, a little humor, a little sci fi, but not taking any too far over the top.

[240B]

I caught one episode on the cable that came bundled with my fiber optic internet. Well, part of an episode. It launched into a sex change operation for a non human species' baby...
Transparent GBLTQXYZWTF stuff, and not halfway through the first season?
If I want to watch social programming, I don't need it wrapped in poorly written sci-fi. ICK, done, kaput.
Thanks, don't call us we'll call you....
NEXT!

I saw part of that episode. It had such a confused message I had a hard time following it. It was more trouble trying to figure out what the Liberal 'message' was, than it was worth for me. I gave up.


And I agree that the show was attempting to be more of a Liberal LGQRSTUVWXYZ message, than it was intended to be a science fiction space story. It was just another Liberal/Leftist PSA, masquerading as entertainment as is the norm these days. But, it was a convoluted, self-contradicting point.


Something about whether or not gender is defined at birth or whether it is fluid and can be chosen. I just didn't have the time to try to sort it out. And didn't want to.


When I watch a pseudo-StarTrek type spinoff, I want to see spaceships and ray-guns. I want the Captain making out with the sexy alien. Whatever it was Seth was trying to say, I had no interest in it. I wasn't expecting some kind of 'after school special' on gender identity, but that is what I wound up being fed.


Maybe someone will like it? But not me.

[Ghost Bear]

Time loop = deus ex machina. Such things are impossible - not because the speculative physics are necessarily wrong, but because Time per se is an illusion. No physicist includes time as a discreet factor in any N-dimensional theorizing. In our universe, time only exists as a relative value -  not an absolute. Things, including the passage of time, may slow or speed up depending on relative velocity or intensity of gravity but that is only vibrational frequencies being slowed - the soup of space-time thickened, so to speak, in one locality. There is no evidence that in THIS universe,  there is any confluence of separate space-time continua - like a reality which exists eternally- and therefore may be revisted the way one goes to a physical location like a National Park. In heaven perhaps. Which is to say the evidence is that the entire physical universe is only a vast vibrating, interacting cosmos in which the Second Law of thermodynamics never spontaneously  reverses itself. What was once an ordered system (like a crystal glass), never spontaeously reassembles itself into an ordered system again once that symmetry is shattered. Chaos can only be made ordered by application of energy outside the chaotic system. Sha-DOO-be.

Well, we're still learning about how the Universe works, so I would be hesitant to say what is possible and what isn't. Anyway, it's Science Fiction, so some "bending of the rules" is OK in my book. Whether or not a stable time loop would be possible in the Real World, it's a common enough trope in SF, and they can be fun to play with and discuss story-wise.

[LateForLunch]

Well, we're still learning about how the Universe works, so I would be hesitant to say what is possible and what isn't. Anyway, it's Science Fiction, so some "bending of the rules" is OK in my book. Whether or not a stable time loop would be possible in the Real World, it's a common enough trope in SF, and they can be fun to play with and discuss story-wise.

'Can't disagree with any of that. Very well phrased BTW! Kudos!

I'm just sayin' that time isn't real. It's a perception shaped by space-time. It's a description of a variable in the vibrational frequency of two points in space. A clock is just a machine with sticks that spin around in a circle. A year merely records the fact that the orbit of the Earth is at an almost exact point in its rotation around the sun as it was after 365+ revolutions of the globe. An atomic clock is not measuring the passage of anything like a river, it merely records the number of vibrations of cesium atoms resonating in an electromagnetic field. Just little atoms vibrating inside a machine, no river anywhere.

The way a physicist explained it to me is that the only meaningful defintion of time is the fact that  chaos never becomes order again unless acted on by energy from outside the chaos. In our universe, it appears that time only "moves in one direction" because a shattered glass stays shattered forever. Sha-doo-bee!

So time seems to exist as a forward-moving sequence of events because all of our perceptions reinforce the principle of Entropy.

For whoever/whatever is moving faster through space-time, internal things slow. Not a very helpful thing if one wants to "travel back" to something which once existed. Nothing once observed ever really exists as it was seen. It is something else again. Change takes place every picosecond of existence. How can one hope to revisit something in a Universe that destroys every configuration of reality - every moment, instantly?

 

[sneakypete]

'Can't disagree with any of that. Very well phrased BTW! Kudos!

I'm just sayin' that time isn't real.

@LateForLunch

I'm betting it's real to the people serving it as directed by a judge.

[RoosGirl]

Sorry if I missed the discussion of it, but did anyone catch the Amazon original pilot called Oasis?

[kevindavis007]

Sorry if I missed the discussion of it, but did anyone catch the Amazon original pilot called Oasis?

I did, and I loved it.