Author Topic: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre  (Read 423174 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #450 on: October 21, 2016, 04:19:28 pm »
 :thumbsup:

Nicely said!

I know I bitch about remakes, but that's more for the paucity of ideas Hollywood seems to have rather than the "Oh noes, they ruined my childhood!" nonsense. (there is a hint of that at times, TBH).

A remake can, and indeed should, be judged on it's own merits.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Bender2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Gender: Male
  • Never a dull moment, eh?
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #451 on: October 21, 2016, 04:39:34 pm »
So I think that the world is big enough to accommodate both films without having to denigrate either.

A remake can, and indeed should, be judged on it's own merits.

I can only say we shall agree...  to disagree
"I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon

Offline LateForLunch

  • GOTWALMA Get Out of the Way and Leave Me Alone! (Nods to Teebone)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,349
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #452 on: October 21, 2016, 05:47:29 pm »
I can only say we shall agree...to disagree

NO!! I disagree!! (...or DO I?)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 05:48:12 pm by LateForLunch »
GOTWALMA Get out of the way and leave me alone! (Nods to General Teebone)

Offline Bender2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Gender: Male
  • Never a dull moment, eh?
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #453 on: October 21, 2016, 06:48:24 pm »
NO!! I disagree!! (...or DO I?)

Lately I've noticed a tendency to agree disagreeably.  It's the sort of thing that gets me scratching my head. :chairbang: :shrug:

Shut up!!!!!!!!!  You guys--  You--  Have me...   so confused????

Pay no attention...   to that guy--

That just like those reboots...    they make little or no sense at all.

Yes, in our film, there was no confusion...    Earth Germs kicked ass and took name!

And then we got married... and lived happily ever after.

Gadzooks!  Now who can argue...     with that?
"I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon

Offline LateForLunch

  • GOTWALMA Get Out of the Way and Leave Me Alone! (Nods to Teebone)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,349
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #454 on: October 21, 2016, 07:40:01 pm »
Wow! Those candy apple red unisex eyeglasses frames that actor is wearing were way ahead of their time.
 

[attachment deleted by admin]
GOTWALMA Get out of the way and leave me alone! (Nods to General Teebone)

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,731
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #455 on: October 21, 2016, 08:06:50 pm »
Gadzooks--  How did I miss...    that one?

Still to this day, 63 year later, so much better...    than the 2005 Spielberg/Cruise reboot.
I won't watch the new one again, but if the old  one is on, grab the popcorn!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,731
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #456 on: October 21, 2016, 08:17:34 pm »
The Cruise/Speilberg remake was brilliant IMO. Largely it was more about characters than about things, which is why it was in some ways superior. The original was intended to be more of a rendering of the radio broadcast by Wells. It was sort of trying to represent visually what people who listened to the broadcast were imagining - especially the emotions of being caught up in a war again -  like the nation had just survived a decade earlier in WWII.

The Spielberg remake was slanted in a different way - it focused as do so many of his films on what the characters in the situation might have realistically gone through. Also many of the visuals of the second film were more true-to-life than the original, mostly because CGI was not available when the first was made, so any attempt to reproduce things like the tripods would have been hokey instead of awe-inspiring.

When the tripod erupts from under the ground and rises into the sky, that is a classic moment of cinema that could not have been accomplished in the era of the first film. Bravo!!

I know it's popular for many to denigrate the remake, but it was arguably superior to the original in many ways - such as the scenes in the basements. The first where the plane crashes was an inspired sequence of cinema and was likely actually taken from a chapter of a book reporting on the real event experience by the son of physicist Hugh Everett (who came up with the Many Worlds Theory as a solution to quantum wave-form collapse). Mark Everett (aka "E") who founded the Eels, wrote about walking through his neighborhood after a passenger airliner crash exactly as portrayed in the movie, in his own autobiography after he became a successful rock musician years after his father had died. I guess that was a little subtle inside-joke from Spielberg (get it? "many worlds"?)

The other basement scene where the character portrayed by Tim Robbins goes nuts and has to be killed by Cruise's character is in some ways far more horrible than all of the alien mayhem.

There was also a very riveting, evocative scene where Dakota Fanning's character is watching bodies floating by in a river that is ghastly and very nicely represents much of the genuine horror of human massacre that is missing from the first, where the human suffering is reduced to a sort of cartoonish, distant thing. Another scene where Cruise's son is breaking away to join the military effort to strike back at the invaders is classic - with Cruise's character torn for his desire to see his son be his own man but also to protect him, where he implores his father," You have to let me go!!!" What parent has not had that agonizing decision to face when their son finally starts to become their own man? Classic.

So I think that the world is big enough to accommodate both films without having to denigrate either.
Considering rampant gore, splatter flicks, and in general putting the horrors of The Killing Fields on the screen didn't come for a quarter century after the original War of the Worlds was made, the absence of those reflects that the remake would never have made it past the censors of the day, even if it was technically possible. The effect was a film more psychological than blatant and in your face blood-and-guts horror. The films played to their respective audiences, and by the time of the remake, the film-going public had been desensitized to gore and blood soaked venues, expected CGI effects and far more 'horror' than would have passed muster in 1953. While there may be room for both, there is room for preferences, and I liked the original far more.
Note, that the classically most effective horror films deal not so much with messy bits as the threat of the monster within or that we do not understand. We fear the unknown, wherever it finds us, right down to our most primal fear of the dark.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LateForLunch

  • GOTWALMA Get Out of the Way and Leave Me Alone! (Nods to Teebone)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,349
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #457 on: October 21, 2016, 08:55:57 pm »
Without getting too analytical, the sort of films that Cyber-Liberty and Smokin' Joe are referring to might be defined as the "gothic horror" genre which often uses grim/dark/strange surroundings, implied or impending violence along with sudden graphic representations - like Mary Shelly's Frankenstein novel and Edgar Allen Poe's work. The original feature film "Alien" directed by Ridley Scott and his sequel are also in that category.

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audiences, and not  for everyone. That being said, Forbidden Planet broke new ground by introducing psychological concepts into SF /horror. In F.P. the Freudian ID and a classic Incestuous Daughter-Jealousy theme appeared with Dr. Morbius' unconscious rage (because of his daughter's interest in the Captain) setting off the violence of the Krell machinery. That's fairly heady stuff for a main-stream audience. Yet it was masterfully executed by the director/screenwriters.

A good director will tap into the imagery that emerges from the unconscious in what CG Jung calls archetypes - symbolic representations of themes, fears and desires from most primal levels of consciousness.

Movies like "Jaws" and the "Creature from the Black Lagoon" also tapped into those gnawing, deep fears that we all normally push to outer regions of our awareness. Unseen monsters lurking in the deep water, or in darkness, or in deep caves /caverns. Generally water/darkness are symbols in the psyche for the unknown and the unconscious, which is why they can be so evocative when used in horror films.     
 When we don't know why certain themes or images trouble us, often it's because the images have touched on some classic archetypal theme that goes to the foundations of awareness.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 09:06:05 pm by LateForLunch »
GOTWALMA Get out of the way and leave me alone! (Nods to General Teebone)

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,731
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #458 on: October 21, 2016, 09:02:56 pm »
The sort of films that Cyber-Liberty and Smokin' Joe are referring to might be defined as the "gothic horror" genre often uses grim/dark/strange surroundings, implied or impending violence along with sudden graphic representations - like Mary Shelly's Frankenstein novel and Edgar Allen Poe's work. The original feature film "Alien" directed by Ridley Scott and his sequel are also in that category.

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audience, so they are not for everyone. Forbidden Planet broke new ground by making psychological concepts (the Freudian ID and a classic Incestuous Daughter-Jealousy theme with Dr. Morbius' unconscious rage setting off the killing because of his daughter's interest in the Captain of the star ship). That's fairly heady stuff for a main-stream audience. Yet it was masterfully executed by the director/screenwriters.

A good director will tap into the unconscious imagery that emerges from the unconscious in what CG Jung calls archetypes - symbolic representations of themes and desires in most primal levels of consciousness.

Movies like Jaws and the Creature from the Black Lagoon also tapped into those gnawing, deep fears that we all normally push to outer regions of our awareness. Unseen monsters lurking in the deep water, or in darkness, or in deep caves or caverns. Generally, water/darkness is a symbol in the psyche for the unknown and the unconscious, which is why it can be so evocative when used in films.   
If you are going to go there, don't leave out Psycho (Hitchcock version) or The Birds, the former dealing with the monster within, hiding beneath that calm exterior (also exploited in Silence of the Lambs), the latter dealing with a twist in the ordinary, commonplace, and a taken for granted aspect of our world suddenly becoming hostile. In Jaws, that hostile element was always present, it just made itself known in a venue where it was assumed to not be a threat (especially of that magnitude). Part of the success of the Blair Witch films is the basic and primal fear of the unknown, played upon. You never see the evil, only results. But there, we have crossed from science fiction to horror.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Machiavelli

  • Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,222
  • Gender: Male
  • Realist
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #459 on: October 21, 2016, 09:30:31 pm »
The Cruise/Speilberg remake was brilliant IMO. Largely it was more about characters than about things, which is why it was in some ways superior.

The Spielberg version has better acting, much better all around production values, and is much closer to the original H. G. Wells story than the 1953 version. However, I still prefer the 1953 version. But then, I'm old-fashioned.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 11:02:21 pm by Machiavelli »

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #460 on: October 21, 2016, 10:59:52 pm »

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audiences, and not  for everyone. That being said, Forbidden Planet broke new ground by introducing psychological concepts into SF /horror. <<

I know you guys are talking at a level far beyond my understanding of this genre,but wasn't Alfred Hitchcock.Rod Sterling,and Rod Serling doing the psychological  stuff "way back when"?

BTW,to prove I am a geezer,all three are still right at the top of my list of favorites. Especially Hitchcock. He really cracks me up.




Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #461 on: October 21, 2016, 11:41:12 pm »
Who's Rod Sterling?  Some silver guy?   :shrug:

He is made of silver.... in the Twilight Bone

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #462 on: October 21, 2016, 11:51:28 pm »
Who's Rod Sterling?  Some silver guy?   :shrug:

Serling was actually his name. Lots of people think it was Sterling,but it wasn't. He used to scare the hell out of me every Friday night when I was a kid.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #463 on: October 21, 2016, 11:56:12 pm »
Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 11:56:51 pm by EC »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #464 on: October 21, 2016, 11:56:35 pm »
Sir Ling?  He was a knighted Chinese person?

Who knew?

 :tongue2:


He was born a poor Asian child

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #465 on: October 22, 2016, 12:00:45 am »

He was born a poor Asian child

@geronl

True,but he came to America and grew up to be a rich and handsome Caucasian man. Is America a great country,or what?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #466 on: October 22, 2016, 12:05:42 am »
Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,731
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #467 on: October 22, 2016, 12:35:16 am »
@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.
No one has mentioned The Outer Limits, so I figured I'd bring that show up, too. Between that and the Twilight Zone, we were well entertained as kids.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #468 on: October 22, 2016, 01:07:14 am »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Machiavelli

  • Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,222
  • Gender: Male
  • Realist
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #469 on: October 22, 2016, 01:21:03 am »
Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

I remember it. Good series.

Offline Machiavelli

  • Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,222
  • Gender: Male
  • Realist
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #470 on: October 22, 2016, 01:22:26 am »
@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.

@sneakypete @EC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tales+of+the+unexpected+full+episodes

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #471 on: October 22, 2016, 01:24:53 am »
I'm supposed to be working ....

Ah, bugger it.  :laugh:
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,731
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #472 on: October 22, 2016, 03:24:00 am »
I think One Step Beyond sucked dogs...
Never saw that one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

geronl

  • Guest
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #473 on: October 23, 2016, 04:38:37 am »
No one has mentioned The Outer Limits, so I figured I'd bring that show up, too. Between that and the Twilight Zone, we were well entertained as kids.

Night Gallery wasn't all bad, although Rod looked like Columbo...

« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 04:39:47 am by geronl »

Offline Quix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,697
  • Gender: Male
  • Times R a changin' Walk with God!
Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #474 on: October 24, 2016, 02:08:53 am »
Among others.

What would you consider the best SG1 episode? If you can recall.

A link would be even better. LOL.
Forgive all; In all things Thank God; Love all. Love 1st, most & always... BE CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING.
POTTERY SITE ON ETSY: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ACTIVELOVE
QUIX thread for Quix GLOBALISM, UFO ETC topics here:http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=206517.new#new WILLIAM TOMPKINS Disclosure bk thread: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,224639.0.html . Calling: To afflict the comfortable & comfort the afflicted[/