Author Topic: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today  (Read 3215 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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thats just  SURREAL!   a cross between  the campaign for prom king..and  1930's German Pep Rally!!!   






Funny you should mention that. I had the audacity to bring up some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today.

 Why?

Because I truly believe this nation is vulnerable, perhaps more than at any time in its history, to being taken down either the Socialist road, or the Fascist path, to totalitarianism, and the march in that direction has not really been slowed since Reagan.

That is a set of circumstances, a fertile political environment, which only needs the right opportunist and a little luck to blossom into murderous totalitarianism. 

The other key element is the belief that 'it can't happen here'.

Oh, but it can.

Despite all our arms and ammo, it can, especially if those in power will treat Americans like the Kulaks and the media will cover for TPTB during the "tragedy".  Our society is far more fragile than we like to think, and many after a week without, would sell their mother for a hot meal, a shower, and something approaching a warm bed.

It is critical, to the point that sufficiently emphatic words do not exist, that the right person be elected POTUS. Otherwise, this grand experiment, this Republic will be only renewed by watering Mr. Jefferson's tree, or it will fail and become something only spoken of as evil in the official histories or whispered about in the shadows of well sealed basements among those subversives and enemies of the State who circulate forbidden historical heresies and devoutly desire freedom.

What outrageous gathering of power to the Central Government the Left has not been able to slide through, the Right has passed with acclaim; two legs of the same leviathan, heading in the same direction, despite all the window dressing. The powers usurped are already phenomenal and contrary to our Constitution, yet many were freely surrendered by the populace out of laziness or fear, or taken by popular demand, (or so we are told by the Media).

The dictators of the 20th Century would have had nocturnal emissions dreaming of the ability to control and disseminate information, mine data, and monitor communications we have at present, right down to the ability to assess whether enough of the approved propaganda 'entertainment' has been viewed in a household, what diet is being eaten, how many times the toilet is flushed, whether subversive materials have been ordered, downloaded, or viewed...

It will be difficult, short of a catastrophic event (not the preferred course, by any means) to get that genie back in the bottle, if it can be done.

There is much more I could rant about, but I'll stop here. I had not meant to get this far.

Suffice it to say a modern Totalitarian Government could be far worse than anything the world has known to date, far more effective and efficient at eliminating its enemies and concealing its horrors.

I never mentioned any names there, nor will I here, but sensed I was within a molecule or so of 'riding the lightning'. Numerous people took offense for a particular person I didn't mention at all, and only backed off when I pointed out I had mentioned no names, merely made a comparison between political environments. But that, too,  has become standard fare in America today.

The new national sport is jumping to conclusions, far more entertaining and lively than baseball.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:04:28 am by EC »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis


Offline Smokin Joe

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« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 05:54:56 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 01:34:26 pm »
Bunch of whining crybabies:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3419285/posts?q=1&;page=1

 :silly:

I'm glad to see the libelous whiners are getting some push back.  It's gentle push back, but maybe that's the only kind that won't get one zotted now.

And, @Smokin Joe , that's a great statement that you wrote.  You're exactly right about the immediate danger we face and the possibilities should we lose.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 01:36:25 pm by Sanguine »

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 01:42:59 pm »
And to think I was banned for supporting Rudy.........way back when.  Seems the worm has turned over there.
Did money change hands?
Seems more than a few websites and blogs took the money from tRump.  Principles be damned.

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 01:55:05 pm »
Funny you should mention that. I had the audacity to bring up some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today.

 Why?

Because I truly believe this nation is vulnerable, perhaps more than at any time in its history, to being taken down either the Socialist road, or the Fascist path, to totalitarianism, and the march in that direction has not really been slowed since Reagan.

That is a set of circumstances, a fertile political environment, which only needs the right opportunist and a little luck to blossom into murderous totalitarianism. 

The other key element is the belief that 'it can't happen here'.

Oh, but it can.

Despite all our arms and ammo, it can, especially if those in power will treat Americans like the Kulaks and the media will cover for TPTB during the "tragedy".  Our society is far more fragile than we like to think, and many after a week without, would sell their mother for a hot meal, a shower, and something approaching a warm bed.

It is critical, to the point that sufficiently emphatic words do not exist, that the right person be elected POTUS. Otherwise, this grand experiment, this Republic will be only renewed by watering Mr. Jefferson's tree, or it will fail and become something only spoken of as evil in the official histories or whispered about in the shadows of well sealed basements among those subversives and enemies of the State who circulate forbidden historical heresies and devoutly desire freedom.

What outrageous gathering of power to the Central Government the Left has not been able to slide through, the Right has passed with acclaim; two legs of the same leviathan, heading in the same direction, despite all the window dressing. The powers usurped are already phenomenal and contrary to our Constitution, yet many were freely surrendered by the populace out of laziness or fear, or taken by popular demand, (or so we are told by the Media).

The dictators of the 20th Century would have had nocturnal emissions dreaming of the ability to control and disseminate information, mine data, and monitor communications we have at present, right down to the ability to assess whether enough of the approved propaganda 'entertainment' has been viewed in a household, what diet is being eaten, how many times the toilet is flushed, whether subversive materials have been ordered, downloaded, or viewed...

It will be difficult, short of a catastrophic event (not the preferred course, by any means) to get that genie back in the bottle, if it can be done.

There is much more I could rant about, but I'll stop here. I had not meant to get this far.

Suffice it to say a modern Totalitarian Government could be far worse than anything the world has known to date, far more effective and efficient at eliminating its enemies and concealing its horrors.

I never mentioned any names there, nor will I here, but sensed I was within a molecule or so of 'riding the lightning'. Numerous people took offense for a particular person I didn't mention at all, and only backed off when I pointed out I had mentioned no names, merely made a comparison between political environments. But that, too,  has become standard fare in America today.

The new national sport is jumping to conclusions, far more entertaining and lively than baseball.

I can't find a thing in there to disagree with!  Excellent!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 02:17:16 pm »
Funny you should mention that. I had the audacity to bring up some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today.

 Why?

Because I truly believe this nation is vulnerable, perhaps more than at any time in its history, to being taken down either the Socialist road, or the Fascist path, to totalitarianism, and the march in that direction has not really been slowed since Reagan.

That is a set of circumstances, a fertile political environment, which only needs the right opportunist and a little luck to blossom into murderous totalitarianism. 

The other key element is the belief that 'it can't happen here'.

Oh, but it can.

Despite all our arms and ammo, it can, especially if those in power will treat Americans like the Kulaks and the media will cover for TPTB during the "tragedy".  Our society is far more fragile than we like to think, and many after a week without, would sell their mother for a hot meal, a shower, and something approaching a warm bed.

It is critical, to the point that sufficiently emphatic words do not exist, that the right person be elected POTUS. Otherwise, this grand experiment, this Republic will be only renewed by watering Mr. Jefferson's tree, or it will fail and become something only spoken of as evil in the official histories or whispered about in the shadows of well sealed basements among those subversives and enemies of the State who circulate forbidden historical heresies and devoutly desire freedom.

What outrageous gathering of power to the Central Government the Left has not been able to slide through, the Right has passed with acclaim; two legs of the same leviathan, heading in the same direction, despite all the window dressing. The powers usurped are already phenomenal and contrary to our Constitution, yet many were freely surrendered by the populace out of laziness or fear, or taken by popular demand, (or so we are told by the Media).

The dictators of the 20th Century would have had nocturnal emissions dreaming of the ability to control and disseminate information, mine data, and monitor communications we have at present, right down to the ability to assess whether enough of the approved propaganda 'entertainment' has been viewed in a household, what diet is being eaten, how many times the toilet is flushed, whether subversive materials have been ordered, downloaded, or viewed...

It will be difficult, short of a catastrophic event (not the preferred course, by any means) to get that genie back in the bottle, if it can be done.

There is much more I could rant about, but I'll stop here. I had not meant to get this far.

Suffice it to say a modern Totalitarian Government could be far worse than anything the world has known to date, far more effective and efficient at eliminating its enemies and concealing its horrors.

I never mentioned any names there, nor will I here, but sensed I was within a molecule or so of 'riding the lightning'. Numerous people took offense for a particular person I didn't mention at all, and only backed off when I pointed out I had mentioned no names, merely made a comparison between political environments. But that, too,  has become standard fare in America today.

The new national sport is jumping to conclusions, far more entertaining and lively than baseball.

Joe, I haven't had the pleasure to make your acquaintance, but I have to tell you that it was certainly a pleasure to read your post.

Kudos.

I just glanced over that TOS thread, and the symptom of every possibility that you spoke of sits at the very onset of the "discussion". When asking for donations to keep TOS afloat it says that the Constitution was made to limit the power of the government and not the people.

That exposes a very basic and very common misunderstanding about the system of government and the nation that the Founders set in place.

We are supposed to be a a Constitutional Republic, and the primary purpose of a Constitutional Republic is to strictly limit the power of omnipotent majorities in both the populace and the government.

Every time I read the phrase "the will of the people" I cringe, because it implies that a large enough group of voters can force themselves on a smaller group of voters by the sheer weight of their numbers. Our Republic is built to protect individual rights and by extension, the rights of minorities, every individual and every minority, against despotic and omnipotent majorities of both the people and the government.

The fall of this Republic will come around by "the will of the people" with the support of omnipotent majorities in the government, enthusiastically expanding the breadth and scope of government to accommodate said "will of the people."

Truly a sad state of affairs.

Good posting.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 02:20:16 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 02:17:43 pm »
Smokin Joe has brought sanity to the topic.   Having lived long enough to remember WW 2, today  is eerily similar to the beginning of Hitler's rise to power.
Sadly, far too many know nothing of world history.  There is precious little taught in our school that have anything to do with US or world history.   Too busy propagandizing.

Offline ABX

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 02:44:49 pm »
Funny you should mention that. I had the audacity to bring up some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today.

 Why?

Because I truly believe this nation is vulnerable, perhaps more than at any time in its history, to being taken down either the Socialist road, or the Fascist path, to totalitarianism, and the march in that direction has not really been slowed since Reagan.

That is a set of circumstances, a fertile political environment, which only needs the right opportunist and a little luck to blossom into murderous totalitarianism. 

The other key element is the belief that 'it can't happen here'.

Oh, but it can.

Despite all our arms and ammo, it can, especially if those in power will treat Americans like the Kulaks and the media will cover for TPTB during the "tragedy".  Our society is far more fragile than we like to think, and many after a week without, would sell their mother for a hot meal, a shower, and something approaching a warm bed.

It is critical, to the point that sufficiently emphatic words do not exist, that the right person be elected POTUS. Otherwise, this grand experiment, this Republic will be only renewed by watering Mr. Jefferson's tree, or it will fail and become something only spoken of as evil in the official histories or whispered about in the shadows of well sealed basements among those subversives and enemies of the State who circulate forbidden historical heresies and devoutly desire freedom.

What outrageous gathering of power to the Central Government the Left has not been able to slide through, the Right has passed with acclaim; two legs of the same leviathan, heading in the same direction, despite all the window dressing. The powers usurped are already phenomenal and contrary to our Constitution, yet many were freely surrendered by the populace out of laziness or fear, or taken by popular demand, (or so we are told by the Media).

The dictators of the 20th Century would have had nocturnal emissions dreaming of the ability to control and disseminate information, mine data, and monitor communications we have at present, right down to the ability to assess whether enough of the approved propaganda 'entertainment' has been viewed in a household, what diet is being eaten, how many times the toilet is flushed, whether subversive materials have been ordered, downloaded, or viewed...

It will be difficult, short of a catastrophic event (not the preferred course, by any means) to get that genie back in the bottle, if it can be done.

There is much more I could rant about, but I'll stop here. I had not meant to get this far.

Suffice it to say a modern Totalitarian Government could be far worse than anything the world has known to date, far more effective and efficient at eliminating its enemies and concealing its horrors.

I never mentioned any names there, nor will I here, but sensed I was within a molecule or so of 'riding the lightning'. Numerous people took offense for a particular person I didn't mention at all, and only backed off when I pointed out I had mentioned no names, merely made a comparison between political environments. But that, too,  has become standard fare in America today.

The new national sport is jumping to conclusions, far more entertaining and lively than baseball.

Worth repeating again.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 02:46:18 pm »
Smokin Joe has brought sanity to the topic.   Having lived long enough to remember WW 2, today  is eerily similar to the beginning of Hitler's rise to power.
Sadly, far too many know nothing of world history. There is precious little taught in our school that have anything to do with US or world history.   Too busy propagandizing.

You are so right, Rivergirl.  And, one question is: "is it deliberate or part of the normal trajectory of human history"?  Probably not normal:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,201032.msg829459.html#msg829459

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 10:34:14 pm »
Joe, I haven't had the pleasure to make your acquaintance, but I have to tell you that it was certainly a pleasure to read your post.

Kudos.

I just glanced over that TOS thread, and the symptom of every possibility that you spoke of sits at the very onset of the "discussion". When asking for donations to keep TOS afloat it says that the Constitution was made to limit the power of the government and not the people.

That exposes a very basic and very common misunderstanding about the system of government and the nation that the Founders set in place.

We are supposed to be a a Constitutional Republic, and the primary purpose of a Constitutional Republic is to strictly limit the power of omnipotent majorities in both the populace and the government.

Every time I read the phrase "the will of the people" I cringe, because it implies that a large enough group of voters can force themselves on a smaller group of voters by the sheer weight of their numbers. Our Republic is built to protect individual rights and by extension, the rights of minorities, every individual and every minority, against despotic and omnipotent majorities of both the people and the government.

The fall of this Republic will come around by "the will of the people" with the support of omnipotent majorities in the government, enthusiastically expanding the breadth and scope of government to accommodate said "will of the people."

Truly a sad state of affairs.

Good posting.

Thank you. You are correct, the purpose of the Bill of Rignts and the Constitution was to protect the Rights of the individual from those who would deny them, whether they be Government or simply mobs. The whole "majority rule" concept flies in the face of the fundamental purpose of our Republic.

True Democracy is just mob rule with an official looking seal.

I recall Gerry Spence commenting on his pro bono defense of Randy Weaver, not because he sympathized with most of Weaver's beliefs (some of which he detested), but because the Government had abused its power and to permit that without objection or resistance would set a dangerous precedent.

We're there again, with things developing in Oregon and extending back to Nevada over ranch land, and in many other venues.

Sadly, so many of those who decry such egregious abuses of power only drool in anticipation of wielding it themselves. That such a critical time in our history has been greeted, not with careful and calculating scrutiny of candidates devoid of emotional content, but with an almost religious fervor beyond the usual pep rally mentality, is cause for concern.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 01:51:45 am »
Because I truly believe this nation is vulnerable, perhaps more than at any time in its history, to being taken down either the Socialist road, or the Fascist path, to totalitarianism, and the march in that direction has not really been slowed since Reagan.


There is precious little difference between socialism and fascism.  In fact, the NAZIs where the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Offline EC

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Re: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 03:05:42 am »
Smokin Joe - There is no way I'm permitting this to be buried in a mega thead. It rates it's own.

Change the title to whatever you like.  :beer:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:12:12 am by EC »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 12:32:21 pm »
There is precious little difference between socialism and fascism.  In fact, the NAZIs where the National Socialist German Workers Party.
They are economic models--all involving government control, directly or indirectly, can be totalitarian and repressive, and with the corrupting influence of power, sooner or later will be.

While the Nazis practiced "National Socialism" politically, their economy was fascist, with private individuals/corporations owning the means of production (and profiting thereby), but taking their marching orders from the government. They arose in power in competition with and opposed to the Communist factions--the other "outsiders" in the Germany of that era.

In socialism, there is a 'public/private partnership' with government ownership of some industry but production centrally planned, and in Communism, the State (allegedly "the people") owns and controls the means of production and the use thereof. To finish the spectrum, on the other end, in pure capitalism, the government is pretty much out of the picture, and private entities and individuals own the means of production and do as they will with those means in anticipation of market factors and profit.

In reality, neither Communism nor Capitalism exist in pure form today, except on the smallest levels.  Most governments we have come to regard as "Communist" are actually Socialist. Despite appearances otherwise, the Chinese are increasingly so, although the government (through the PLA) owns much of what is there.

What we have in the US is closer to the fascist model, with the means of production owned by corporations and individuals but so heavily regulated by government that for all practical purposes all but the smallest operations are government controlled. While that thought may be offensive to many who declare us free, as a practical matter, regulations from agencies ranging from OSHA to the EPA, to a host of other diktats declare what expenditure will be made by any business to comply, and make a significant impact, on especially small business.

 I will not argue that many of those regulations are there to ensure the health, safety, and ongoing well being of the worker or the community, for those are the good intentions with which they were initially enacted. I will, however state that in my opinion those have left the realm of common sense and are approaching lunacy.

However, those regulations often favor the already large players in the marketplace which can afford to maintain personnel on staff to monitor regulatory changes and the adaptations necessary to maintain compliance, and which can use the economy of scale to obtain more favorable terms on equipment, training, infrastructure, and licenses or fees. Even Obamacare, perhaps a shining example, has damaged the ability of smaller businesses to grow and compete, while at the same time eliminating health insurance options from the marketplace.

That is just the way it is, and those advantages would rest with the larger entities even in a purely capitalist system, but the influence of government policy demanding those expenses would have no effect--Government would be absent, and the expenditures left at the discretion of the businesses, even though many can be well justified in cost savings, employee loyalty, and in good will from the community in which they reside.

 Thus, existing, larger, industry is favored over all but the most well capitalized entrepreneur, and often is in close association with the political figures which control the type and intensity of regulation. Those persons who set up those regulations or who pass legislation empowering others to make those rules stand to profit by foreknowledge of those rules, for they are not governed by the same investment constraints ordinary people are--they have inside information and they can use it for fun and profit, or to benefit those they know who will compete in the marketplace, which in turn will inevitably benefit them as favors are returned.

We like to think of ourselves as 'free' and Capitalist, but in practice, there is little that can be made or sold that the government does not have volumes of regulations controlling the production, distribution, manufacture, and design thereof. All that separates us from fascism is the government demanding what is produced, and not just how to do so and the features which must be incorporated.

While that is an important difference, the thinness of that wall is breached every time you put E10 gas in your tank.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 05:43:08 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 12:46:32 pm »
They are economic models--all involving government control, directly or indirectly, can be totalitarian and repressive, and with the corrupting influence of power, sooner or later will be.

While the Nazis practiced "National Socialism" politically, their economy was fascist, with private individuals/corporations owning the means of production (and profiting thereby), but taking their marching orders from the government. They arose in power in competition with and opposed to the Communist factions--the other "outsiders" in the Germany of that era.

In socialism, there is a 'public/private partnership' with government ownership of some industry but production centrally planned, and in Communism, the State (allegedly "the people") owns and controls the means of production and the use thereof. To finish the spectrum, on the other end, in pure capitalism, the government is pretty much out of the picture, and private entities and individuals own the means of production and do as they will with those means in anticipation of market factors and profit.

In reality, neither Communism nor Capitalism exist in pure form today, except on the smallest levels.  Most governments we have come to regard as "Communist" are actually Socialist. Despite appearances otherwise, the Chinese are increasingly so, although the government (through the PLA) owns much of what is there.

What we have in the US is closer to the fascist model, with the means of production owned by corporations and individuals but so heavily regulated by government that for all practical purposes all but the smallest operations are government controlled. While that thought may be offensive to many who declare us free, as a practical matter, regulations from agencies ranging from OSHA to the EPA, to a host of other diktats declare what expenditure will be made by any business to comply, and make a significant impact, on especially small business.

 I will not argue that many of those regulations are there to ensure the health, safety, and ongoing well being of the worker or the community, for those are the good intentions with which they were initially enacted. I will, however state that in my opinion those have left the realm of common sense and are approaching lunacy.

However, those regulations often favor the already large players in the marketplace which can afford to maintain personnel on staff to monitor regulatory changes and the adaptations necessary to maintain compliance, and which can use the economy of scale to obtain more favorable terms on equipment, training, infrastructure, and licenses or fees. Even Obamacare, perhaps a shining example, has damaged the ability of smaller businesses to grow and compete, while at the same time eliminating health insurance options from the marketplace.

That is just the way it is, and those advantages would rest with the larger entities even in a purely capitalist system, but the influence of government policy demanding those expenses would have no effect--Government would be absent, and the expenditures left at the discretion of the businesses, even though many can be well justified in cost savings, employee loyalty, and in good will from the community in which they reside.

 Thus, existing, larger, industry is favored over all but the most well capitalized entrepreneur, and often is in close association with the political figures which control the type and intensity of regulation. Those persons who set up those regulations or who pass legislation empowering others to make those rules stand to profit by foreknowledge of those rules, for they are not governed by the same investment constraints ordinary people are--they have inside information and they can use it for fun and profit, or to benefit those they know who will compete in the marketplace, which in turn will inevitably benefit them as favors are returned.

We like to think of ourselves as 'free' and Capitalist, but in practice, there is little that can be made or sold that the government does not have volumes of regulations controlling the production, distribution, manufacture, and design thereof. All that separates us from fascism is the government demanding what is produced, and not just how to do so and the features which must be incorporated.

While that is an important difference, the thinness of that wall is breached every time you put E10 gas in your tank.

You Sir have your head screwed on straight!  Welcome to TBR!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 01:22:21 pm »
Please don't change the title of the thread in a reply.   #14 and #15
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 01:23:45 pm by DCPatriot »
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Re: Re: For All Of You Former Freerepublic and Now "Zotted" Folks
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 01:35:13 pm »
They are economic models--all involving government control, directly or indirectly, can be totalitarian and repressive, and with the corrupting influence of power, sooner or later will be.

While the Nazis practiced "National Socialism" politically, their economy was fascist, with private individuals/corporations owning the means of production (and profiting thereby), but taking their marching orders from the government. They arose in power in competition with and opposed to the Communist factions--the other "outsiders" in the Germany of that era.

In socialism, there is a 'public/private partnership' with government ownership of some industry but production centrally planned, and in Communism, the State (allegedly "the people") owns and controls the means of production and the use thereof. To finish the spectrum, on the other end, in pure capitalism, the government is pretty much out of the picture, and private entities and individuals own the means of production and do as they will with those means in anticipation of market factors and profit.

In reality, neither Communism nor Capitalism exist in pure form today, except on the smallest levels.  Most governments we have come to regard as "Communist" are actually Socialist. Despite appearances otherwise, the Chinese are increasingly so, although the government (through the PLA) owns much of what is there.

What we have in the US is closer to the fascist model, with the means of production owned by corporations and individuals but so heavily regulated by government that for all practical purposes all but the smallest operations are government controlled. While that thought may be offensive to many who declare us free, as a practical matter, regulations from agencies ranging from OSHA to the EPA, to a host of other diktats declare what expenditure will be made by any business to comply, and make a significant impact, on especially small business.

 I will not argue that many of those regulations are there to ensure the health, safety, and ongoing well being of the worker or the community, for those are the good intentions with which they were initially enacted. I will, however state that in my opinion those have left the realm of common sense and are approaching lunacy.

However, those regulations often favor the already large players in the marketplace which can afford to maintain personnel on staff to monitor regulatory changes and the adaptations necessary to maintain compliance, and which can use the economy of scale to obtain more favorable terms on equipment, training, infrastructure, and licenses or fees. Even Obamacare, perhaps a shining example, has damaged the ability of smaller businesses to grow and compete, while at the same time eliminating health insurance options from the marketplace.

That is just the way it is, and those advantages would rest with the larger entities even in a purely capitalist system, but the influence of government policy demanding those expenses would have no effect--Government would be absent, and the expenditures left at the discretion of the businesses, even though many can be well justified in cost savings, employee loyalty, and in good will from the community in which they reside.

 Thus, existing, larger, industry is favored over all but the most well capitalized entrepreneur, and often is in close association with the political figures which control the type and intensity of regulation. Those persons who set up those regulations or who pass legislation empowering others to make those rules stand to profit by foreknowledge of those rules, for they are not governed by the same investment constraints ordinary people are--they have inside information and they can use it for fun and profit, or to benefit those they know who will compete in the marketplace, which in turn will inevitably benefit them as favors are returned.

We like to think of ourselves as 'free' and Capitalist, but in practice, there is little that can be made or sold that the government does not have volumes of regulations controlling the production, distribution, manufacture, and design thereof. All that separates us from fascism is the government demanding what is produced, and not just how to do so and the features which must be incorporated.

While that is an important difference, the thinness of that wall is breached every time you put E10 gas in your tank.

Liberal Socialists are NEVER judged on results...but rather their 'good' intentions.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 05:42:26 pm »
Please don't change the title of the thread in a reply.   #14 and #15

Sorry. I have replied to both threads, and really don't know how that happened.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Some of the similarities between 30s Germany and the US today
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 08:27:12 pm »
Sorry. I have replied to both threads, and really don't know how that happened.

 :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald