Author Topic: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored  (Read 3779 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/04/02/trump-leaves-the-conservative-establishment-arrogant-and-unmoored/

Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored


By Joe Scarborough April 2 at 11:06 PM
 
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee, File)
When members of Manhattan’s media elite come to Mark Halperin’s home for dinner, Halperin likes to ask his guests whether they have spent more time in Paris or Staten Island. More often than not, his guests select the destination that does not offer regular ferry service from Battery Park.

Halperin’s dinner quiz provides a glimpse into what conservatives have long mocked as the cloistered existence of liberal elites who report on a nation they don’t understand. Republican critics have long complained that these media elites are schooled, spend their summers and live most of their lives in urbane enclaves that provide little insight into how the rest of America lives.

But in 2016, conservative commentators are sounding as cocooned from their own political party as any liberal writing social commentary for The New Yorker or providing political analysis for ABC News. Even after the passing of Antonin Scalia and the Paris and San Bernadino attacks, many right-leaning pundits are spending their days scolding readers and declaring that no true conservative or God-fearing Christian could support Donald Trump. This simmering rage has now risen to such a level that many conservative opinion shapers are spending their waking hours coping with a festering Zapruder-like obsession over video frames of the Corey Lewandowski-Michelle Fields confrontation while obsessing over the GOP frontrunner’s latest embarrassing gaffe.

Even as the Manhattan billionaire is enduring his most dreadful period of the campaign, attacks against Donald Trump have reached new heights, with commentators focusing their withering criticism on supporters, ignoring the fact that many of those same voters helped make Ronald Reagan president, Newt Gingrich Speaker of the House and Marco Rubio a United States senator.

But now these voters formerly called common-sense conservatives are now considered drug-addled losers who are too stupid to determine what is in their best interest. The left-wing’s “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” is now the GOP establishment’s “What The Hell’s Up With Upstate New York?”


The March 28th edition of National Review ran a column that described Donald Trump as a “Father-Fuhrer” for poor white men raised without a strong male figure. “It is easy to imagine a generation of young men being raised without fathers and looking out the window like a kid waiting for Daddy to come home,” National Review’s Kevin Williamson wrote, “waiting for the Father-Fuhrer figure they have spent their lives imagining.”

Williamson concluded that white working class men victimized by globalization were not actually victims at all, but rather losers whose own poor choices have led them down a path of “welfare dependency, drug and alcohol addiction, and family anarchy.”

It is not quite as rosy a lens as what conservative writers once used to focus on these same Reagan Democrats.  “The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles,” wrote Williamson.

“Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin.”

Wow.

Imagine the reaction from William F. Buckley if such an article were written about the same voters who helped propel candidates like Reagan, Gingrich and Bush 43 to power.

Williamson, of whom I am an admirer, is not alone in launching such blistering broadsides against GOP voters. My friend Erick Erickson provided an equally rough assessment of white working-class Trump followers in an April 1, 2016 tweet.


Not to be outdone, in the latest issue of National Review James Kirchick wrote that what was most significant about Trump’s rise was that “he has mainstreamed white racial grievance to a point unprecedented in post-Civil Rights Era America. That it has taken this most improbable of figures — a thrice-married, multimillionaire New York real-estate magnate and celebrity television star with an Orthodox Jewish daughter — to achieve what no hooded Klansman or backwoods neo-Nazi could ever have hoped of doing makes his feat all the more astonishing.”

Actually, what is most astonishing is the rising level of rage among Donald Trump’s political enemies from inside the Republican establishment. Many of my conservative friends are sounding as arrogant and unmoored as left wing pundits let loose on MSNBC during the Bush years.


Suggesting that faithful Christians and life long conservatives like my brother cannot support Donald Trump while believing in Jesus is offensive enough. But denigrating millions of working class Americans let down by a quarter century of Bush-Clinton rule as drug addicts or white supremacists is even more destructive to the conservative cause.

Like many Republican critics of Donald Trump, my first, second and third choices did not survive the early stages of Trumpism. I still believe Jeb Bush would have been the best president to sit in the Oval Office since Ronald Reagan. And if John Kasich is still campaigning when Connecticut Republicans go to the polls, he will get my vote. But I’ve stormed the barricades enough over the past 20 years to know that there is always another fight beyond the one that promises to bring about a magnificent victory or bloody political end.

The Democratic landslide of 1964 was followed by Reagan’s rise in 1966. The shock of Clinton’s win in 1992 was followed quickly by the first Republican majority in 40 years. And Barack Obama’s sweeping victories in 2008 and 2012 were countered in short order by devastating legislative defeats for Democratic candidates.

The conservative movement, the Republican Party and our constitutional republic will survive Donald Trump’s candidacy. Maybe it’s best to hold off on the political purges for now and believe, like Reagan, that our best days just may lie ahead.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 01:14:47 pm »
And, what does Joe Scarborough know of conservatism?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 01:15:17 pm »
Trump has his followers believing he will ban all Muslims from entering the US (except the rich ones), pay off 18T debt, and force Apple to make iPhones in the US, and he blames National Review?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2016, 02:14:49 pm »
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, and this author is in deep denial. 

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 02:48:50 pm »
Wasn't there some sort of scandal involving this guy and an intern? Maybe Trump got to him too.

Trump knows where the bodies are buried.

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 03:15:22 pm »
First move, attack the messenger, don't address the message.  -  Well done folks, you're going to do well with Hillary Clinton as your president.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 03:16:39 pm »
First move, attack the messenger, don't address the message.  -  Well done folks, you're going to do well with Hillary Clinton as your president.

Eh? Facts back us up, Trump loses bigtime to Hillary. "Normies" (not GOP primary voters) hate him. He cannot even win a majority of votes in 99% of states.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 03:25:41 pm »
First move, attack the messenger, don't address the message.  -  Well done folks, you're going to do well with Hillary Clinton as your president.

The messenger should be attacked.  A month ago, on his morning show, Joe Scarborough said that Trump's refusal to denounce the KKK and David Duke the day before was "absolutely disqualifying for the nomination."

Now, he's trashing anybody who criticizes Trump.  That won't fly, Joe.  You're sucking up to Trump so he'll continue to call into your show.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 03:26:11 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.


Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 03:31:29 pm »
The messenger should be attacked.  A month ago, on his morning show, Joe Scarborough said that Trump's refusal to denounce the KKK and David Duke the day before was "absolutely disqualifying for the nomination."

Now, he's trashing anybody who criticizes Trump.  That won't fly, Joe.  You're sucking up to Trump so he'll continue to call into your show.

I'm no fan of Scarborough. However, I think it's legitimate to point out the obnoxious characterizations of Trump supporters. It's also important to realize that attacking the same people that you want to support the eventual nominee isn't a good idea.

Whatever percentage you assign as Trump supporters, try to win without them.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2016, 03:45:45 pm »
I'm no fan of Scarborough. However, I think it's legitimate to point out the obnoxious characterizations of Trump supporters. It's also important to realize that attacking the same people that you want to support the eventual nominee isn't a good idea.

Whatever percentage you assign as Trump supporters, try to win without them.

I thought Trump said he was bringing "millions of new voters" into the GOP, voters who had never voted before?  If he loses the nomination, they go back to sitting on their butts.  No big loss.

I don't see the GOP beating Hillary this year anyway.  Too much damage has been done by Trump: women hate him, Hispanics hate him, blacks hate him.  That residual hatred will spill over even if Cruz were to be the nominee.

Trump's supporters are the ones who are unmoored and arrogant. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that their boy is a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, an intentionally ignorant boob who refuses to learn policy in any depth and can't even bother to learn proper phrasing for interviews, they still support him because they're too proud to admit they were dead wrong supporting him.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 04:00:36 pm »
I thought Trump said he was bringing "millions of new voters" into the GOP, voters who had never voted before?  If he loses the nomination, they go back to sitting on their butts.  No big loss.

I don't see the GOP beating Hillary this year anyway.  Too much damage has been done by Trump: women hate him, Hispanics hate him, blacks hate him.  That residual hatred will spill over even if Cruz were to be the nominee.

Trump's supporters are the ones who are unmoored and arrogant. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that their boy is a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, an intentionally ignorant boob who refuses to learn policy in any depth and can't even bother to learn proper phrasing for interviews, they still support him because they're too proud to admit they were dead wrong supporting him.

They still support him because they're sick and tired of the go along to get along GOP. They've decided they'd rather take a chance versus voting for the same cast of liars, cheats, and thieves that have been elected.

These voters aren't new. And pissing them off is a bad idea for a party that's watching it's opposition grow, on a daily basis.

This election is lost, I agree. Trump is only part of the reason, but he's not to blame. Trump wouldn't have gotten out of the blocks if it weren't for a GOP that hates it's base.

It doesn't matter to me, all the establishment types can continue to piss all over Trump supporters all they want. The Democrats thank you.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 04:07:52 pm »
They still support him because they're sick and tired of the go along to get along GOP. They've decided they'd rather take a chance versus voting for the same cast of liars, cheats, and thieves that have been elected.

These voters aren't new. And pissing them off is a bad idea for a party that's watching it's opposition grow, on a daily basis.

This election is lost, I agree. Trump is only part of the reason, but he's not to blame. Trump wouldn't have gotten out of the blocks if it weren't for a GOP that hates it's base.

It doesn't matter to me, all the establishment types can continue to piss all over Trump supporters all they want. The Democrats thank you.

Trump supporters will be mad no matter what: Trump wins and gets trounced by Hillary they blame the establishment for not supporting Trump enough. Happened during the Kuccinelli loss.

Anyone but Trump wins: well the usual screaming and yelling. Blah blah blah.

They'll be mad no matter what. They're angry, unhappy people.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 04:08:46 pm »
They still support him because they're sick and tired of the go along to get along GOP. They've decided they'd rather take a chance versus voting for the same cast of liars, cheats, and thieves that have been elected.

These voters aren't new. And pissing them off is a bad idea for a party that's watching it's opposition grow, on a daily basis.

This election is lost, I agree. Trump is only part of the reason, but he's not to blame. Trump wouldn't have gotten out of the blocks if it weren't for a GOP that hates it's base.

It doesn't matter to me, all the establishment types can continue to piss all over Trump supporters all they want. The Democrats thank you.

This election was perfectly winnable until Trump decided to insert himself into it.  Arrogance and self-obsession are his reasons for running.  He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything outside himself.

The GOP base does not support Trump.  He gets no more than 37% of the vote in any primary.  He has all the malcontents, the burn-it-all-down, underinformed members of the party, as well as those who just want a national daddy to make things all better.

Trump supporters can leave the party for all I care.  They have nothing constructive to say.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 04:13:17 pm »
This election was perfectly winnable until Trump decided to insert himself into it.  Arrogance and self-obsession are his reasons for running.  He doesn't give a rat's ass about anything outside himself.

The GOP base does not support Trump.  He gets no more than 37% of the vote in any primary.  He has all the malcontents, the burn-it-all-down, underinformed members of the party, as well as those who just want a national daddy to make things all better.

Trump supporters can leave the party for all I care.  They have nothing constructive to say.

And yet, it's constantly repeated that you must win before you can accomplish anything.

Now you say 37% of the people who vote in your primaries are not worthy of your party and should go away.

Good plan. How exactly are you going to win with that strategy?


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 04:15:05 pm »
And yet, it's constantly repeated that you must win before you can accomplish anything.

Now you say 37% of the people who vote in your primaries are not worthy of your party and should go away.

Good plan. How exactly are you going to win with that strategy?



I saw Trump acting like absolute bleep during the debates. No issues, just insults. He often got personal and attacked looks.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 04:40:00 pm »
First move, attack the messenger, don't address the message.  -  Well done folks, you're going to do well with Hillary Clinton as your president.

Ok.  Trump hasn't left the establishment unmoored the way the article describes because Trump IS the establishment.  In fact, he's already purchased several "establishment" types with promises of positions in some putative Trump administration.  And he's already beholden to lobbyists, having obtained the endorsement of at least one influential lobbyists (lobbyists don't give endorsements away for free). 

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2016, 05:02:11 pm »
And yet, it's constantly repeated that you must win before you can accomplish anything.

Now you say 37% of the people who vote in your primaries are not worthy of your party and should go away.

Good plan. How exactly are you going to win with that strategy?



My rebuttal is such....


Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2016, 05:17:49 pm »
They still support him because they're sick and tired of the go along to get along GOP. They've decided they'd rather take a chance versus voting for the same cast of liars, cheats, and thieves that have been elected.

These voters aren't new. And pissing them off is a bad idea for a party that's watching it's opposition grow, on a daily basis.
....

I agree with your sentiments.  I have an issue with picking Trump to solve these issues.  As many more eloquent than me have pointed out repeatedly, Trump is a part of the system that we want to reform.

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2016, 06:17:37 pm »
I saw Trump acting like absolute bleep during the debates. No issues, just insults. He often got personal and attacked looks.

Look, you don't seem to understand, let me try once again to spell it out for you.

I don't like Trump, I have the same issues with Trump as most of you do. However, I don't think this is Trump's doing. It's an unresponsive GOP that created Trump.
Furthermore, I believe the election is already lost. There is nothing anyone can do to salvage that. However, attacking, insulting Trump supporters will do just what Trump supporters have wished for, burn it down. The GOP without Trump supporters will really and truly be powerless.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2016, 06:23:24 pm »
Look, you don't seem to understand, let me try once again to spell it out for you.

I don't like Trump, I have the same issues with Trump as most of you do. However, I don't think this is Trump's doing. It's an unresponsive GOP that created Trump.
Furthermore, I believe the election is already lost. There is nothing anyone can do to salvage that. However, attacking, insulting Trump supporters will do just what Trump supporters have wished for, burn it down. The GOP without Trump supporters will really and truly be powerless.

Ok, how would you move on from this point then? Trump people hate "the establishment" even though to them "the establishment" is anyone who isn't Trump. What is your solution to address that?

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2016, 06:44:56 pm »
Ok, how would you move on from this point then? Trump people hate "the establishment" even though to them "the establishment" is anyone who isn't Trump. What is your solution to address that?

How about some civility?

Let it play out. Trump will not be the nominee. If Trump wins the nomination, I'll be more shocked than when Obama beat Romney. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I strongly doubt it.

Trump supporters are not evil, they're not stupid, and they're not deserving of contempt. What they are is angry disaffected voters. They're tired of fighting, and having those that reap the rewards of electoral wins, ultimately ignore their concerns. They're scared, watching the country they love move leftward and downward at a rapid rate.

Instead of attacking Trump supporters with a ferocity that is never used when attacking Democrats, try to understand. It's their choice, let it go at that. When Trump is denied the nomination, some will peel away, but most will come around, if they haven't been pissed off and pissed on by establishment types on a daily basis. I'm not talking about just this forum, this forum is meaningless in the greater scheme. I'm talking about media types who are right leaning.

Or, you can keep attacking, because you believe they deserve it. And when the GOP can't win a national election to save their lives, you can wonder why.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2016, 06:51:13 pm »
How about some civility?

Let it play out. Trump will not be the nominee. If Trump wins the nomination, I'll be more shocked than when Obama beat Romney. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I strongly doubt it.

Trump supporters are not evil, they're not stupid, and they're not deserving of contempt. What they are is angry disaffected voters. They're tired of fighting, and having those that reap the rewards of electoral wins, ultimately ignore their concerns. They're scared, watching the country they love move leftward and downward at a rapid rate.

Instead of attacking Trump supporters with a ferocity that is never used when attacking Democrats, try to understand. It's their choice, let it go at that. When Trump is denied the nomination, some will peel away, but most will come around, if they haven't been pissed off and pissed on by establishment types on a daily basis. I'm not talking about just this forum, this forum is meaningless in the greater scheme. I'm talking about media types who are right leaning.

Or, you can keep attacking, because you believe they deserve it. And when the GOP can't win a national election to save their lives, you can wonder why.

So if me, a posting nobody on an oscure political site am suddenly "nice" to Trump voters, they will suddenly decide to stop screaming and come around and support the GOP nominee in November? I think you overestimate my influence.

Offline Relic

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 07:02:26 pm »
So if me, a posting nobody on an oscure political site am suddenly "nice" to Trump voters, they will suddenly decide to stop screaming and come around and support the GOP nominee in November? I think you overestimate my influence.

Quote from: The part you didn't read
I'm not talking about just this forum, this forum is meaningless in the greater scheme. I'm talking about media types who are right leaning.

You're right, you're too stupid to post to, sonny. Do as you wish, my wish for you is not post-able.

Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: Trump leaves the conservative establishment arrogant and unmoored
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2016, 07:02:34 pm »

[size=78%]Trumps  is as mad as a hen! and that sad fact is going to become painfully [/size]apparent quite soon enough!!


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